Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

no he is not.
might be one of the 2 witness's,
u know 2 Popes,,2 witness's.
Those against Kingship,, or anti King as they say,,,sounds more Communist/Socialist type.
just curious.

a reply to: yuppa
the AC that is.

originally posted by: khimbar

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme


Life News illogically claimsthat the attack on the Ukrainian military post was not carried out by Donetsk People's Republic but rather pro-Kyiv mercenaries who arrived in private vehicles, but then who also somehow had helicopter air support...

(In other words, they are claiming Ukrainian miltiary helicopters fired on their own men.)

Yep. They did apparently.

This is supposed to be them doing it?

Anyone that can confirm the translations I've read that this is the Ukranian army attacking it's own people?

No, and those troops are not exactly running for cover as that attack helicopter flies over. Rather they seem to be concerned about what is in the direction of where the aircraft is heading.

Instead of these outlandish claims that the Ukrainian helicopters were providing air support for some mysterious, right-wing mercenary militia, is it not more likely the air support was for the troops under attack by separatists?

originally posted by: darkorange
Hello ATS and this particular thread especially,

Election day Sunday. Wishing Ukrainian people, all the supporters outside Ukraine, a good luck! Wishing you folks to elect someone who is if not incarnation, but who represents ideas of Maidan uprising the closest.



My best wishes and let there be peace,

Wiki,
"..Peace is an occurrence of harmony characterized by the lack of violence, conflict behaviors and the freedom from fear of violence."

I hope that is still possible, darkorange.

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: dragonridr

More on what Putin said...

news.yahoo.com...

MOSCOW - A defiant Vladimir Putin declared today that the U.S.-led world order "has failed." Speaking to business leaders a at a forum in St Petersburg, the Russian president railed against U.S. sanctions and dismissed allegations that Russia is meddling in Ukraine, which he said was in the midst of "civil war" thanks to the West. He also rejected accusations by President Obama in unusually pointed terms.

Highly recommend reading the full report by clicking that link.

Putin speaks openly on a wide range of issues.

He is starting to concern me this isnt the norm for him Putin was always calm cool and collected now he tares off into Rants which seem out of touch. Shame really i truly liked him until about 2012 than you started seeing glimpses of the irrational.

a reply to: dragonridr

5 years after 1991, Russians should have taken the turn for Southern direction i.e. better trade and political terms with China, India, Middle East, Africa.

Why 5 years ?? that's because 70 years of communist prison system, the common Russian psychology needed some clear air to get in the system and then decide which direction to look at. In Europe only Germany has comprehensive trade relations with Russia. Others are mainly gas and energy clients.

Even now, and that's 14 years after Putin took to power, it is the Russians themselves who are hollowing up their own country via capital flight as a result of corruption. That is the main threat to Russia. West will keep on its agenda of opposing Russian best interests. Such political tussles will keep going on.

Both west and east Ukraine have "more than loudly" told which direction they want to look at. Doubt that would change.

Hance Russia should now focus on becoming a strong state in terms of economics, social development and military power etc. Freedoms with moral values bring enterprise and allround development.

A strong state does not need to chase others to become allies. There is a big line-up of heads of states seeking appointments to become one.

a reply to: victor7

A strong state doesn't need to threaten others to prevent them from associating with the West / EU / NATO.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: dragonridr

5 years after 1991, Russians should have taken the turn for Southern direction i.e. better trade and political terms with China, India, Middle East, Africa.

Why 5 years ?? that's because 70 years of communist prison system, the common Russian psychology needed some clear air to get in the system and then decide which direction to look at. In Europe only Germany has comprehensive trade relations with Russia. Others are mainly gas and energy clients.

Even now, and that's 14 years after Putin took to power, it is the Russians themselves who are hollowing up their own country via capital flight as a result of corruption. That is the main threat to Russia. West will keep on its agenda of opposing Russian best interests. Such political tussles will keep going on.

Both west and east Ukraine have "more than loudly" told which direction they want to look at. Doubt that would change.

Hance Russia should now focus on becoming a strong state in terms of economics, social development and military power etc. Freedoms with moral values bring enterprise and allround development.

A strong state does not need to chase others to become allies. There is a big line-up of heads of states seeking appointments to become one.

I agree with the exception of one thing you will never see India and China be the major trade partner of the same country. Bottom line they dont like each other very much and see the other as there major threat. Of course if you can pick between the two you will always take China. However i dont think personal freedom is high on Putins list either he keeps taking away the Rights of Russians ultimately this will be his biggest problem.

a reply to: dragonridr

Somewhere I read that China India trade has been growing very fast. They have some border issues but beyond that nothing else, I think. With Russia as the common factor, I am sure both China and India will fight willingly on one side.

In the above linked article, Putin mentions that restrictions on various items in Russia is pretty much the same as in any western country. There are some controls on outright wild journalism but nothing severe. However, in terms of "corruption, bribery, law skirting, power based extortion" etc. Russia is worse than many third world nations.

Do not blame Putin for that, it is the Russian culture to break laws and feel happy about it. Like some psychological revenge on 70 years of communist hard stick. When the defense minister of a country is accused of embezzling $100M from the budget, then that is a sign of real concern.

Defense Minister was the former who was actually a furniture salesman and not a military professional like the current Gen. Shoigu. Wonder who got the idea to appoint the furniture guy to handle military matters. Laughable !!

a reply to: dragonridr

I watched his speech on Russian language and the translation yahoo made is beyond false ! I would say more provocative than true , tweaked some words there and here and twisted completely his word .

Here is an example :
Yahoo article translation
ON EDWARD SNOWDEN:

Putin dismissed allegations that American intelligence leaker Edward Snowden, who received asylum in Russia last year after being stranded in a Moscow airport for weeks, was a Russian spy.

"He's not an agent of ours. He hasn't given us any secrets. He hasn't leaked anything," Putin said.

What Putin really said
"Look we did not ask him(Edward Snowden) to come! It was the Americans that failed the operation , they made a big fuss about it , he arrived at our transit zone and suddenly all countries refused to accept him. If they (Americans) did it in more calm way , then he would fly in some country that they could arrest him quietly. "Now we are not the people who will extradict a fighter of human rights" , Putin said with a smirk on his face and then applause in followed


Now i ask you how does what Yahoo translated match with what Putin said ????????

originally posted by: Laxus
a reply to: dragonridr

I watched his speech on Russian language and the translation yahoo made is beyond false ! I would say more provocative than true , tweaked some words there and here and twisted completely his word .

Here is an example :
Yahoo article translation
ON EDWARD SNOWDEN:

Putin dismissed allegations that American intelligence leaker Edward Snowden, who received asylum in Russia last year after being stranded in a Moscow airport for weeks, was a Russian spy.

"He's not an agent of ours. He hasn't given us any secrets. He hasn't leaked anything," Putin said.

What Putin really said
"Look we did not ask him(Edward Snowden) to come! It was the Americans that failed the operation , they made a big fuss about it , he arrived at our transit zone and suddenly all countries refused to accept him. If they (Americans) did it in more calm way , then he would fly in some country that they could arrest him quietly. "Now we are not the people who will extradict a fighter of human rights" , Putin said with a smirk on his face and then applause in followed


Now i ask you how does what Yahoo translated match with what Putin said ????????

Another article from Venture Beat on the matter of Putin and Snowden:

Former KGB general: Snowden is cooperating with Russian intelligence

A wonderful video illustrating the state of political freedom in Putin's Russia, which so many here seem to defend and admire:



(Granted here in Dubai I cannot wear my evening dresses beyond the hotel reception.)

a reply to: ALoveSupreme

Oh please lets not play this silly game of finding a 10 second video of something and blaming it on Putin.
Here is your Obama state, i dont see you defending the freedoms of US citizents .

www.youtube.com...

Wth is Venture beat?


Traitor talks about another traitor?




Love him or hate him, Snowden brought the NSA into the sunlight.

a reply to: Laxus

Putin -
We have no military units on the ground in Crimea.
The no insignia men are not Russian military.
Russia has no desire to go to war with Ukraine.
Russia says ethnic Russians being persecuted.
Russia says it will not annex Crimea.
Russia says it has no special forces operating in Ukraine.


Based on the above I find it difficult to believe that Putin / Russian FSB / military intelligence / etc did not obtain the computer info Snowden had with him.

originally posted by: Laxus
a reply to: ALoveSupreme

Oh please lets not play this silly game of finding a 10 second video of something and blaming it on Putin.
Here is your Obama state, i dont see you defending the freedoms of US citizents .

www.youtube.com...

So a 3 minute video that begins as a person is being arrested by the police, with absolutely no context / info to explain what the Police were present for in the first place is more credible than a 10 second clip?

While I respect your position / opinion people need to understand Law Enforcement varies from State to State. People seem to have this notion that all law enforcement in the US is just one big entity.

Its not.

Respectfully,
Before you throw stones in the law enforcement realm and lumping all law enforcement into one box, please take the time to understand how our law enforcement system is set up as well as our state governments.

a reply to: Laxus

Here is your Obama state, i dont see you defending the freedoms of US citizents .

Funny the video starts after they are starting to handcuff this man, yet we only hear what the person recording says happened without seeing what brought this situation to the place we see in the video.

So how does that makes us in an Obama state?

So would this be called a Putin state?

originally posted by: Laxus
a reply to: ALoveSupreme

Oh please lets not play this silly game of finding a 10 second video of something and blaming it on Putin.
Here is your Obama state, i dont see you defending the freedoms of US citizents .

www.youtube.com...

I am not from the States -- I am a citizen of UAE.

And I think arguing that the States is corrupt and has injustices (which it certainly does) is a logical fallacy when discussing the plutocratic state of Russia.

Your video is also largely pointless as others have mentioned. Although I am certainly no fan of municipal police officers, who knows what happened before the camera started. It is not shown.

In the video I posted you clearly see a woman harassed and arrested merely for wearing the colors of Ukraine.

originally posted by: SurrenderingAmerica
Wth is Venture beat?


Traitor talks about another traitor?




Love him or hate him, Snowden brought the NSA into the sunlight.

You have a point there. They are both defectors. And both have unique insights into how their respective systems work.

Venture Beat is just a popular news source for the global tech industry.

I was not making a statement about Snowden's character or judgement really. I only thought the article was interesting in that it suggested that Snowden could not be in Russia without cooperating. That seems to be the spy game, no?

Newly released VICE documentary on the last days of the Euromaidan:



From a protestor in the video -- an Electrical Engineering professor, Artem Ivanov -- speaking about why the police are opening fire on the largely unarmed protestors:

Most of the Berkut soldiers came from Crimea... Yes there is a lot of propaganda there. They think this is some sort of fight against Nazism. So they bring the police from there. Because they are afraid the police from here will be... Yes, they will not shoot the people.

Yes, a exposé on the so called revolution of the fascists. So many apparent Nazis on display, in the square and touring Victor's house.

a reply to: Laxus
I want to hear about THAT rifle again the one with LIMITED distribution that security guards line dog soldiers and NON ELITE forces don't often get their hands on.I think the MP5SD is a nice firearm but only JSOC types get to play with those.
In case you forgot:
sadefensejournal.com...
is ONLY ALPHA and Spetz distrubution.I have seen them strewn about in news clips enough to know it AIN'T no SINGULAR arms room liberation here.
And to play devils advocate I absolutely GUARANTEE we have been using contractors there,who aren't stupid enough to tag our country by using proprietary specialized arms and thus we can't ID them like we can so easily id the clumsy Russian effort here.