Atheists? Have you been feeling a bit "agnostic" lately?

reply to post by BenReclused


"Atheism" and "agnosticism" are not polar opposites. "Atheism" and "theism" are; "agnosticism" and "gnosticism" are. So I disagree. If you're attempting to refine the differences between agnosticism and atheism, gnosis and theism are two different concepts. Atheism and agnosticism do not stem from the same idea.

BenReclused
Agnosticism IS ABSOLUTE UNCERTAINTY: No beliefs for, nor against

It's the zero point from which all belief, and disbelief grow.

Agnostic is a word that can be used as a noun or an adjective.

You're trying to tell everyone that they can only use it one way. That is what is going on here, nothing else. I think this has already been pointed out to you more than a couple of times. Quit asking for proof when it has already been presented.

reply to post by BenReclused


You can feel that there are no gods and still not know for a fact. If you acknowledge that you cannot prove it to yourself or others, now or ever, then you are agnostic.

reply to post by BenReclused


As an Agnostic Atheist...(Agnostic leaning toward Atheism)
Yes or No answers will not do here.

1) Do you believe that God IS REAL?

No, I do not believe GOD is real. 99% sure.

2) Do you believe that God IS NOT REAL?

It is possible he is not real, but there is a possibility.. that 1%.

3) Do you believe that God EVER EXISTED?

Same as Answer 1, im 99% there was none.

4) Do you believe that God NEVER EXISTED?

Same as Answer 2, probably never did, but that 1% chance it could have existed.

5) Do you believe that God WILL EVER EXIST?

No, i don't think if an ultimate being will exist in the future.

6) Do you believe that God WILL NEVER EXIST?

Doubt it will ever exist.

7) Do you believe that God IS POSSIBLE?

An ultimate supreme being.. nope. Unless you think of the top of the food chain kinda aspect, then yeah, some species might exist. But logical species, not magical.

8) Do you believe that God IS NOT POSSIBLE?

The current concept of magical god? Nope, not possible. an Highly intelligent species? maybe. Logical not Magical.

1) Does God EXIST?
2) Did God EXIST?
3) Will God EXIST?

Most likely NO,
Most likely NO,
Most likely NO,

4) Do you REALLY believe that God IS A "FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER", or "SOME INVISIBLE MAN", somewhere?

Those terms were merely a jab at Theist. On how one can easily make up something and believe in it without evidence. The spaghetti monster and God holds the same credit so to speak.

reply to post by luciddream


That was actually a jab at atheists, making fun of the way we ridicule theism. Also, do you think that it can be proven as a fact whether a god exists or not?

AfterInfinity
reply to post by luciddream

 

That was actually a jab at atheists, making fun of the way we ridicule theism.

Explain.

reply to post by luciddream


I also edited my previous post, so please answer it in your next post. Atheists use the 'invisible sky wizard' and 'flying spaghetti monster' to mock theism, and now we are being mocked with it.

BenReclused
Great news! There is no longer any cause for worry! The following test will show that "agnostism" is, without a doubt, no cause for concern.

Please answer the following questions (There is no need to answer all questions. Only "Yes", or "No", answers are valid):

1) Do you believe that God IS REAL?

Don't know.

2) Do you believe that God IS NOT REAL?

Don't know.

3) Do you believe that God EVER EXISTED?

Don't know.

4) Do you believe that God NEVER EXISTED?

Don't know.

5) Do you believe that God WILL EVER EXIST?

Don't know.

6) Do you believe that God WILL NEVER EXIST?

Don't know.

7) Do you believe that God IS POSSIBLE?

Yes.

8) Do you believe that God IS NOT POSSIBLE?

Yes

Optional questions (All answers are valid):

1) Does God EXIST?

Don't know.

2) Did God EXIST?

Don't know.

3) Will God EXIST?

Don't know.

4) Do you REALLY believe that God IS A "FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER", or "SOME INVISIBLE MAN", somewhere?

Don't know.

Kindly post your answers, and I'll post the results. Then, we'll discuss them.

All comments are welcome...

Theists:
I, particularly, welcome your participation, and commentary. You can serve as a kind of "control", and "observation" group.

The challenge:
I say that it's impossible for atheists, and theists alike, to be agnostic, at the same time. Prove me wrong...

Agnostics truly are, of simple thought:

Full Definition of AGNOSTIC

1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

2: a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something

Why is it, that so many, quite honestly, don't "get it"?

A special thanks goes out to "Lucid Lunacy ". Without his "consistency of thought", this "thought experiment" would have never been.

Note to Mods:
I chose "Conspiracies in Religions" because, as an "agnostic", I feel that, an overwhelming mass of, "atheists", are conspiring to dilute our, already, rare breed.

To all:
Catch me if you can...

See ya,
Milt

edit on 402America/Chicago3RAmerica/Chicago2014-03-01T02:39:03-06:00Saturday00000003America/Chicago by BenReclused because: Typo

I answered before I read any comments in the thread

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Atheists use the 'invisible sky wizard' and 'flying spaghetti monster' to mock theism, and now we are being mocked with it.

That was an excellent observation, my friend, and I gave you a star for it.

See ya buddy,
Milt

Additional questions for atheists:
Do you feel that "improbable propositions", and the mountebanks that preach from their soap boxes, should be mocked?

Do you feel theists, that truly believe, should be mocked?

As an atheist, do you feel affected by my mockery?

Once again, all comments are welcome.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by luciddream

 

I also edited my previous post, so please answer it in your next post. Atheists use the 'invisible sky wizard' and 'flying spaghetti monster' to mock theism, and now we are being mocked with it.

edit on 3-3-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

lol i dont think Atheist are being mocked by that, Atheist actually embracing it in order to piss at Theist. How can you mock at someone who makes something they dont even believe in? that makes the people mocking back look stupid.

Its kinda like...

Person A: Magic is real.
Person B: So is Mickey Mouse.
Person A: Haha your stupid, you believe in Mickey Mouse.

Clearly the person B already knows Mickey Mouse is not real. I do not see How Person A can mock Person B.

Also, do you think that it can be proven as a fact whether a god exists or not?

God concept by default does not exist, It was brought up by humans. Thus it does not exist until said human bring forth evidence, which is not possible thus, the default wins.

reply to post by BenReclused


Mocked? No. Criticized? Yes. All ideas must be criticized to be validated.

reply to post by luciddream


Well, he just confirmed that he was mocking those atheists, so there you have it. It doesn't bug me either way. Just remember, to an extent, this thread is intended to rile you.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


it does not rile me a bit...

I guess i seen worse ignorance so i lost sensitivity to such issues.. so this just seems like a common debate.


Heck i live in a world that is at least 75% religious, if i don't have a tough skin.. i will go crazy.


edit: if he thinks it is actually mocking atheist. i guess he is Person A from my example above.

reply to post by BenReclused

Agnosticism IS ABSOLUTE UNCERTAINTY: No beliefs for, nor against

It's the zero point from which all belief, and disbelief grow.

Thanks for your comment.

See ya buddy,
Milt

"Absolute uncertainty" is another contradiction. An agnostic speaking about absolutes shows how uncertain he is about his uncertainty. To be uncertain about something, one must first be certain about what it is he is uncertain about. It seems that you are certain enough about god to have an opinion about it, just like atheists and theists. There's no difference between the three camps. All are assumptive.

reply to post by BenReclused


Belief is not required for existence!
I don't believe that humans could
ever conceive the existence of our
creator! This could be why so many
have such a hard time believing!
Since it's not required for us to actually
believe but only requires us to have
faith that God exist whether internal
or external to us!
There are so many things we can not
see but realize they must exist because
of their influence on the material world.
Yet we believe in the air we breathe and
the atoms that make up every aspect of
our existence! We believe in these objects
because of the effects which can be seen,
felt, heard and therefore known! So then
why is it so hard for some of us to
believe in the possibility of a creator?
We only need to open our eyes to see
the effects God has on the world around
us! I can see God in the laughter of
children or the splendor of a sunset
and the beauty of the landscape but
if we are truly lucky we can see
more then just these material things
but the ability God has to influence
our hearts to show love and kindness
to our brothers and sisters! To take
these things for granted is to deny
all of creation as some kind of
mistake! There are so many things
which had to come into play for not
just humanity to be here but for
any life to exist at all! To deny
God is to believe there is no
intelligence to our creation
and that we only exist through
Happenstance!

BenReclused
reply to post by daskakik

 

Not if you use the word as an adjective to modify a persons stance on the matter from one of absolute certainty to one of uncertainty.

Agnosticism IS ABSOLUTE UNCERTAINTY: No beliefs for, nor against

It's the zero point from which all belief, and disbelief grow.

Thanks for your comment.

See ya buddy,
Milt

I disagree. Agnosticism is the certainty that the knowledge does not exist. The question cannot be answered as a fact.

I just wanted to say that I have found this thread very intriguing.

Hearing how others view the two seemingly simple categorizations of "Atheist" and "Agnostic" is extremely interesting. The interpretations can vary greatly.

Even more interesting is how these things have transformed in the era of communication technology that we have now. An "Agnostic Atheist" was completely unheard of in the circles I was in years ago. It was a term I had never heard until the internet really started to get embedded in the popular culture. It seems rooted in the debate scene, as it really took off along with the internet. It is a very, very strong stance in a debate since it can make nearly any claim wanted, yet fall back to the agnosticism as a defense. Its actually quite clever, and before it became rather common place, would have mopped the floor with any challengers on the debate circuit. I think this type of thought process may have carried over to individuals, who were debating with themselves as to the true nature of whatever is going on here.

Personally, I still see no need for so many labels. They never really cover all of the bases when it comes to the possibilities inherent to each of them. In a way, I think it limits how we interact with each other.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

You can feel that there are no gods and still not know for a fact.

No, I can't. My agnosticism won't allow me to do that.

Though, there is nothing wrong with "feeling" that way, atheists are the only ones that do.

Without that "feeling", one would no longer be an atheist. With that "feeling", one would no longer be an agnostic. The two are, indeed, mutually exclusive. Q.E.D.

If you acknowledge that you cannot prove it to yourself or others, now or ever, then you are agnostic.

Nope, not quite.

Perhaps this example might help you to better understand:
If you told a real agnostic that you felt God doesn't exist, and couldn't provide any evidence in support of that proposition, an agnostic would consider that to be, only a belief. And, as such, it's truth is not yet known.

A belief is, only, an unsupported proposition, in the "eyes" of a real agnostic. Agnosticism isn't about God, and it's only "cause" is to separate fiction from fact.

Just between you, and me, and everyone else:
My agnosticism is the VERY REASON that I frustrate so many.

Once again, thank you very much for your sincerity. And, I mean that... so another star for you.

See ya buddy,
Milt

reply to post by BenReclused

With that "feeling", one would no longer be an agnostic.

So your claim is that no true agnostic would have an opinion in the matter, other than that they couldn't have an opinion in the matter?

Dumbass
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

I guess my reply on the first page isn't considered to be real participating either to the OP.
IMO he misses a couple of questions like:

If you would believe a deity is real do you believe that deity is top notch in the grand scheme of exsistance?

If a deity makes us aware of him/her/it being our creator I would file a complain by his/hers/its rules duhuh

Now I notice a critical typo.
Rules in the last sentence should be rulers
Lol