Increasing Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Linked To Ozone Hole

Increasing Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Linked To Ozone Hole

Satellite images show that since the 1970s the extent of Antarctic sea ice has increased at a rate of 100,000 square kilometres a decade.
The new research helps explain why observed changes in the amount of sea-ice cover are so different in both polar regions.

sciencedaily.com

I just came across this article on a new study that claims Antartica Ice cap is increasing by large amounts because of what? THE OZONE LAYER! WTF?!?


I thought that the official history was that the south pole ice cap was shrinking like the north pole ice cap.

The Antarctic ice sheet is losing as much as 36 cubic miles of ice a year in a trend that scientists link to global warming, according to a new paper that provides the first evidence that the sheet's total mass is shrinking significantly.

washingtonpost.com

The washinton post article is kinda old, but ilustrates what was believed to be true.
Heck, last year I watched a documentary (sorry to not remenber the name) that basically stated that the whole Antartica was warming up.

It seems that it became undeniable that the antartica ice cap is actually increasing, so they had to find something to justify it and link to Global warming (IMO). But THE FRACKING OZONE LAYER???

This doesn't add up IMO.

Using satellite images of sea ice and computer models the scientists discovered that the ozone hole has strengthened surface winds around Antarctica and deepened the storms in the South Pacific area of the Southern Ocean that surrounds the continent. This resulted in greater flow of cold air over the Ross Sea (West Antarctica) leading to more ice production in this region.

Yeah Right.


What do you guys think about this?


(I'm kinda new in ATS, so if this has been posted on the wrong place or there is already another thread about this, please inform me.)


[edit on 28/4/2009 by MorfeuZ]

WOW, great find!

Now we need to figure out why we are losing ice from one pole and gaining it on the other end.

Could the tilt effect it? It doesn't seem like it but I can't figure out what else would give the south pole less sun other than increased tilt pointing the north pole further towards the sun.

And weren't the holes in the ozone supposed to be heating up the earth, how are they now creating ice?

Something is fishy as they keep talking about the massive ice bergs breaking off in the south pole, yet the total ice is increasing?

[edit on 28-4-2009 by breakingdradles]

I don't think the tiny changes on erarth's tilt would pull it off, since an increase in the tilt would only increase the difference betwen winter and summer IMO. Unless our orbit is more elyptical then we think I would not consider this possibility, although I was thinking about this possibility too a few moments ago.

The study implies that the lack of ozone protection cooled down the troposphere wich in turn changed wind patterns over the continent. IDK, I have a hard time believing this.

IMO, this is something not caused by man. I am thinking it is related to magnetic changes on our planet. It is my believe that magnetic changes affects weather patterns more then we imagine.



[edit on 28/4/2009 by MorfeuZ]

Ah sweet confirmation, still though, this is something of a mystery, wonder if it cold be due to some unknown anthropogenic activity, Ill be keeping an eye on this one.

I'm sure its caused from the very well known danger of 'Penquin Flatulence' ! It's just like Global Climate Change only it smells worse!!

Zindo

Unless it is the result of Solaris approaching the Galactic Plane..
I dont know how this could work, but lets play :

Earth freezes in the south as that part is the part the goes first down into the plane.
Hence the dimmer Sun, and maybe when Solaris is down the underside, the freezing is starting up north, hence ice age and later when its warmer again , the sun kicks in and heats the planet just as fast as it was frozen and a new flood could accure, 7 year tribulation starting june 21st..

Lets play.

reply to post by ChemBreather


Well buddy, you went waay out there IMHO.
But seems more plausible then the ozone layer hole IMO. hehehe


I guess that the real important thing to note here is that the scientist comunity knows nothing about climate change.

Well, one must start some where.
Remove and add your thoughts..

I do not know if the Gl.Plane is coing to result in hot or cold, one could speculate Cold if we think about the theory that they have found Dinos that probably have been FlashFrozen it takes alot of 'cold' to to that..

Come on, Let's play !!!!



[edit on 29-4-2009 by ChemBreather]

good to see a confirmation on sea ice, i think this should settle the temperature trend debate a bit.

at least there's some investigation going on instead of brushing it aside, but i can't but note that the explanation given required another type of influence, beside CO2.

Again today someone started a thread about a massive piece of sea ice breaking away from Antarctica.

I wish more people read this thread and it got to the front page, I truly think it deserves it.

Maybe you were right ChemBreather, I mean who knows what's going on at this point in time?

We see antartic ice growing in one place and maybe chunks of ice really are breaking away from antartica...

And where is the North Pole ice?
I've seen some articles stating that the ice might be gone in few years, others say it could go even faster. All I know is that google earth doesn't show any more ice cap on North Pole. This took me by surprise by the way, I had not noticed that until yesterday.



[edit on 30/4/2009 by MorfeuZ]

reply to post by ChemBreather


Well I posted eralier that I thought this climate changes could be due to the magnetic change that are occuring to our planet, although I don't have any data to support it.

I am just trying to connect the dots here, Brazil is being poured by rains since last november, all over the country we are seeing excessive rains in shorts periods of time, we are also seeing drought in places that didn't have it before.

I THINK this severe climate on south atlantic could be due to possible changes in this South Atlantic Magnetic Anomaly. But this is just me speculating what could be causing these changes on the south hemisphere's climate.

Maybe this is subject to another thread, I'm just to explaining what I meant earlier.


Regards.

[edit on 30/4/2009 by MorfeuZ]

Researching more on the subject I just found this. IMO this guy ilustrated beautifully what might be going on with the ice on the antarctic continent.

Although I don't know where he got all his data nor if he is a good source. But the data seemed ok to me.


[edit on 30/4/2009 by MorfeuZ]

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
I just came across this article on a new study that claims Antartica Ice cap is increasing by large amounts because of what? THE OZONE LAYER! WTF?!?

I thought that the official history was that the south pole ice cap was shrinking like the north pole ice cap.

You're mixing apples and oranges.

Sea ice extent appears to have been recently increasing, but the ice sheet appears to be losing mass. One is the sea ice, t'other is the continental ice cap.

reply to post by melatonin

Thank you for pointing this to me. Although maybe you could clarify what you meant with "continental sea ice cap", cause your definition seems to be different from what I found.

Ice sheets are bigger than ice shelves or glaciers. Masses of ice covering less than 50,000 km² are termed an ice cap. An ice cap will typically feed a series of glaciers around its periphery.

wikipedia.org

But I guess I understood what you meant.
You mean that although the Ice extent might be increasing, the whole ice sheet might be loosing mass by getting thinner?

Do you have any links supporting this?


Regards.

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
reply to post by melatonin

 

Thank you for pointing this to me. Although maybe you could clarify what you meant with "continental sea ice cap", cause your definition seems to be different from what I found.

The ice/glaciers which are part of the antarctic ice sheet. The land bit.

The sea ice is viewed as a different phenomena.

You mean that although the Ice extent might be increasing, the whole ice sheet might be loosing mass by getting thinner?

Do you have any links supporting this?

Regards.

Yeah, no problem. You actually posted some for the ice sheet.

Published Online March 2, 2006
Science DOI: 10.1126/science.1123785
Science Express Index

Reports
Submitted on December 13, 2005
Accepted on February 21, 2006

Measurements of Time-Variable Gravity Show Mass Loss in Antarctica
Isabella Velicogna 1* and John Wahr 2*
1 University of Colorado and CIRES, UCB 390, Boulder, CO 80309-0390, USA; Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of Technology, Mail Stop 300-233, Pasadena, CA 91109-8099, USA.
2 University of Colorado and CIRES, UCB 390, Boulder, CO 80309-0390, USA.

* To whom correspondence should be addressed.
Isabella Velicogna , E-mail: [email protected]
John Wahr , E-mail: [email protected]

Using measurements of time-variable gravity from the Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment (GRACE) satellites we determine mass variations of the Antarctic ice sheet during 2002-2005. We find that the ice sheet mass decreased significantly, at a rate of 152 ± 80 km3/year of ice, equivalent to 0.4 ± 0.2 mm/year of global sea level rise. Most of this mass loss came from the West Antarctic Ice Sheet.

Nature Geoscience 1, 106 - 110 (2008)
Published online: 13 January 2008 | doi:10.1038/ngeo102

Subject Categories: Climate science | Cryospheric science

Recent Antarctic ice mass loss from radar interferometry and regional climate modelling

Eric Rignot1,2,3, Jonathan L. Bamber4, Michiel R. van den Broeke5, Curt Davis6, Yonghong Li6, Willem Jan van de Berg5 & Erik van Meijgaard7

Large uncertainties remain in the current and future contribution to sea level rise from Antarctica. Climate warming may increase snowfall in the continent's interior1, 2, 3, but enhance glacier discharge at the coast where warmer air and ocean temperatures erode the buttressing ice shelves4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. Here, we use satellite interferometric synthetic-aperture radar observations from 1992 to 2006 covering 85% of Antarctica's coastline to estimate the total mass flux into the ocean. We compare the mass fluxes from large drainage basin units with interior snow accumulation calculated from a regional atmospheric climate model for 1980 to 2004. In East Antarctica, small glacier losses in Wilkes Land and glacier gains at the mouths of the Filchner and Ross ice shelves combine to a near-zero loss of 461 Gt yr-1. In West Antarctica, widespread losses along the Bellingshausen and Amundsen seas increased the ice sheet loss by 59% in 10 years to reach 13260 Gt yr-1 in 2006. In the Peninsula, losses increased by 140% to reach 6046 Gt yr-1 in 2006. Losses are concentrated along narrow channels occupied by outlet glaciers and are caused by ongoing and past glacier acceleration. Changes in glacier flow therefore have a significant, if not dominant impact on ice sheet mass balance.

So, overall, the antarctic ice sheet is losing mass, but there is an increase in sea ice.

reply to post by melatonin

So, overall, the antarctic ice sheet is losing mass, but there is an increase in sea ice.

I would not say it IS loosing mass neither that it IS increaing sea ice extent.

To infer the ice sheet's mass, the team measured ice flowing out of Antarctica's drainage basins over 85 percent of its coastline. They used 15 years of satellite radar data from the European Earth Remote Sensing-1 and -2, Canada's Radarsat-1 and Japan's Advanced Land Observing satellites to reveal the pattern of ice sheet motion toward the sea. These results were compared with estimates of snowfall accumulation in Antarctica's interior derived from a regional atmospheric climate model spanning the past quarter century.

jpl.nasa.gov - Very interesting study by the way.

Using satellite images of sea ice and computer models the scientists discovered that the ozone hole has strengthened surface winds around Antarctica and deepened the storms in the South Pacific area of the Southern Ocean that surrounds the continent. This resulted in greater flow of cold air over the Ross Sea (West Antarctica) leading to more ice production in this region.

sciencedaily.com

It all depends on the accuracy of these models, right?
Would you have any info if these models are accurate? Since climate models are very very complex and rely heavely on accurate data. For example, the north pole rapid ice loss has contradicted all models where it was previously tested.

I mean, I created this thread to discuss these apparent (to me) discrepancies, there seems to be a lot of uncertainties left on these subjects.

Regards.



[edit on 30/4/2009 by MorfeuZ]

reply to post by melatonin


But you were right, I did mix apples and oranges on the first post. Is there any way I can edit out this error now? I don't see an edit button anymore.

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
I would not say it IS loosing mass neither that it IS increaing sea ice extent.

lol, I used up my quota of 'appears' earlier. In fact, I think the earlier hedging was sufficient.

It all depends on the accuracy of these models, right?
Would you have any info if these models are accurate? Since climate models are very very complex and rely heavely on accurate data. For example, the north pole rapid ice loss has contradicted all models where it was previously tested.

As always. A model is a model is a model. It's not reality.

But, yeah, it appears that in some quarters models are totally useless and tell us nothing. I'd rather see them as tools to guide research and indicators of potential, but they are still models.

Yeah, the ice loss in the north 'appears' much more rapid than expected. The uncertainity goes both ways.

I mean, I created this thread to discuss these apparent (to me) discrepancies, there seems to be a lot of uncertainties left on these subjects.

Regards.

But you now see that there probably isn't any discrepency? The sea ice and the ice sheet are different things.

Anyway, yeah, if you play up the uncertainties sufficiently, the reality can disappear...apparently.

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
But you were right, I did mix apples and oranges on the first post. Is there any way I can edit out this error now? I don't see an edit button anymore.

lol, no. Only for a short period after posting.

Don't worry about it.

[edit on 30-4-2009 by melatonin]

reply to post by melatonin

But you now see that there probably isn't any discrepency? The sea ice and the ice sheet are different things.

Yeah, I know they are different, I just missed the difference when writing the OP. All I meant about the discrepancies is that the more you research about this, more conflicting data you get. You must have noticed it when you conducted your research.

Anyway, yeah, if you play up the uncertainties sufficiently, the reality can disappear...apparently.

LOL.