Killers of UK soldier Lee Rigby sentenced

They both should of gotten life, and I mean LIFE!, better still put them both in a military prison, im sure they'd make room and give them a warm welcome.

I think calls for hanging are really just an emotional response because I doubt most of those people would want to be down at the gallows spectating.
People say prison is easy, 5 meals a day, tv etc. But the punishment isn't starvation or boredom. It's taking away someones freedom. Like someone else has said, it is better to lock them up and let them be forgotten.

Adebowale has been given a minimum 45 years which means he will be 67 years old before he is considered for release.
Adebelajo will never be released, ever.
That's about the toughest that could be handed out.

My only problem with it is the relative comfort of their cells during their imprisonment.

The two will go straight on 45 and receive every comfort that offers.

Personally I'd like to see them serve their sentence in solitary confinement with just the bare essentials and subsistence level food etc.
Possibly a good dose of hard labour thrown in here and there as well.

We need to recognise that the primary reason for their imprisonment is punishment, any thoughts of rehabilitation in cases like this should be secondary at best.

I struggle with the conflict I have personally over the death sentence.
I think its hypocritical to say killing someone is wrong so because you've killed someone we, as in society, are going to kill you.
But I know that if someone had done anything remotely like the crime these two scumbags committed against anyone of my family or someone I cared for I would do everything within my power to kill them somehow - that's the natural inclination for revenge.

And as has been said, killing them would only make martyrs of them.
Who cares about that?
Well no-one really, except perhaps the families of the potential victims of any crimes committed by those 'inspired' by their martyrdom.

I have no doubt the PC Brigade and the apologists will wait for the dust to settle and then quietly go about trying to convince us that somehow Adebolajo and Adebowale's human rights have been infringed upon.
I only hope the authorities remain steadfast in their determination to ensure that these sentences are carried out to the full.

Be under no illusion, life will not be easy for them.....but it will be a damn sight better than they deserve.

reply to post by Bellor

I am off the opinion putting people in metal cages for an arbitrary length of time is not justice, rather just some form of punishment basicaly because as a society we do not comprehend how to do anything else.

Not wanting to derail the thread too much but what would be your solution to handling crimes such as this?

Keeping my nature as going against the tides....


Would this be a normal sentence for anyone that kill someone, or is it increased because the dead person was a solider?

CJCrawley
reply to post by andy06shake

 

is this justice?

It's as good as can be expected, so I'm satisfied.

Life without the possibility of parole would be better.

I've got this horrible feeling that we'll soften over time and release them early.

The one that got a whole life term will never be released - that is why they waited until today to sentence them because there was a review of whole life terms in the Court of Appeal, who upheld they are legal and not a breach of "human rights".

The one that got 45 years is facing a minimum of 30 years in jail. You only get 1/3rd of your sentence for "good behaviour".

As others have said, short of executing them, this is the best we could have hoped for.

Freeborn

My only problem with it is the relative comfort of their cells during their imprisonment.

There's nothing comfortable about their cells. They will be the same as everyone elses. Theres no need for them to sleep on the floor.

Personally I'd like to see them serve their sentence in solitary confinement with just the bare essentials and subsistence level food etc.

Why? What does that solve? There is nothing exceptional about these people and their crime other than they committed it in public. There are plenty of people who do much worse, but because its in the dark or behind closed doors and not recorded, somehow for many people, it doesn't seem to carry as much weight. Funny that.

We need to recognise that the primary reason for their imprisonment is punishment, any thoughts of rehabilitation in cases like this should be secondary at best.

Prison has always been used as punishment, community sentences are about rehabilitation. The punishment is being denied freedom, punishing them further when they are in prison is called torture.

I struggle with the conflict I have personally over the death sentence.
I think its hypocritical to say killing someone is wrong so because you've killed someone we, as in society, are going to kill you.
But I know that if someone had done anything remotely like the crime these two scumbags committed against anyone of my family or someone I cared for I would do everything within my power to kill them somehow - that's the natural inclination for revenge.

Its called murder. Its not unique, nor original and getting worked up over murders nothing to do with you, is a waste of time and energy. We don't have a death penalty for good reason, the arguments have been had and that has been decided across Europe. We aren't going to change it.

I have no doubt the PC Brigade and the apologists will wait for the dust to settle and then quietly go about trying to convince us that somehow Adebolajo and Adebowale's human rights have been infringed upon.
I only hope the authorities remain steadfast in their determination to ensure that these sentences are carried out to the full.

There is no chance that their sentence would be overturned regardless of this 'PC brigade' you speak of. To be frank, theres no such group of individuals that have defended their actions so you are reading the situation completely wrong. Their legal team is hardly a PC brigade which is all the people in this country you'll find defending them.

Be under no illusion, life will not be easy for them.....but it will be a damn sight better than they deserve.

Their life will be like most other people's in prison, no different. I don't know why people seem to think that criminals in prison are some sort of unified force of morally upstanding individuals, because they're not. They're in prison for a reason.

reply to post by Grenade


Very well put grenade, global brain washing of the masses by religion is usually behind these acts of atrocity, at the end of the day, its no excuse. Im standing by my last reply. For people trying to bring politics into it, its just splitting hairs, murder is murder, in this case, they were undeniably guilty, so absolute maximum sentence should have been given, Life, No parole, No time off for good behaviour, No segregation for their own safely, they done it, they took the chance, now they should take another chance in general population.

CJCrawley
reply to post by andy06shake

 

The issue I have is that its the taxpayers who will foot the bill for there stay!

So what?

I'd much prefer to pay to keep them locked up for the duration than the cheaper alternative of releasing them any sooner.

Personally, I'd take a much cheaper route and just kill them........ no redeeming qualities in those two.

reply to post by spacedog1973

There's nothing comfortable about their cells. They will be the same as everyone elses.

Are you sure?
Have YOU had any first hand experience of prison cells?

Theres no need for them to sleep on the floor.

A straw mattress would suffice.....or the modern equivalent.

Why? What does that solve?

It would give them time to reflect on their crimes.....personal persecution can be far worse than anything 'society' dishes out.

There is nothing exceptional about these people and their crime other than they committed it in public.

Yes there was....you seem to be casually dismissing this crime as quite mundane and ordinary?

There are plenty of people who do much worse,....

Worse?
That's like arguing who was worse, Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot.

.....but because its in the dark or behind closed doors and not recorded,....

Well they must be recorded or no-one would know about them, surely?

...... somehow for many people, it doesn't seem to carry as much weight. Funny that.

Perhaps for 'some people'...but not me.
You seem to be inferring much.

The sentence I stated I would prescribe for Adebolajo and Adebowale I would also prescribe for many other murderers, rapists and paedophiles.

Prison has always been used as punishment, community sentences are about rehabilitation. The punishment is being denied freedom, punishing them further when they are in prison is called torture.

Now if that were true the time and effort spent trying to rehabilitate prisoners whilst in prison wouldn't be happening would it?
They go hand in hand - and for the majority of prisoners I would agree with that sort of approach.
I just think that some criminals are either beyond rehabilitation or the seriousness of their crime determines that all thoughts of rehabilitation were forsaken when they committed their crime.

Its called murder. Its not unique, nor original and getting worked up over murders nothing to do with you, is a waste of time and energy.

So we should all become dispassionate about crimes that occur in our society if they have 'nothing to do' with us?
Is that the ideal our society should be striving towards, not caring and being unmoved about murders such as this?

We don't have a death penalty for good reason, the arguments have been had and that has been decided across Europe. We aren't going to change it.

Yes, I know that and I think I explained quite clearly that from a detached point of view I agree entirely with that stance.
What I said was, again quite clearly, that I know that I personally would have some sort of internal conflict if someone murdered a member of my family or someone I cared for - that is base human nature and emotion.
I would like to think I'd be able to rise above it and accept society's just punishment of those responsible....but I doubt I would be able to.
Hypocritical?
Yes, I know....but I'm only human.

There is no chance that their sentence would be overturned....

At present that's correct....but who knows what future legislation may decree, and who knows by which authority?
The recent review of whole life terms currently applies, but do you think those who view them as 'denying human rights' will simply accept this and will cease in their efforts?

..... regardless of this 'PC brigade' you speak of.

The word brigade, originally used to describe a military unit, can also be used as a pejorative collective noun to describe an informal group of like-minded individuals with views with which the speaker disagrees. It is used as a mild term of disapproval or contempt, or in an attempt to belittle and ridicule the subject.

For example, "PC brigade" is used to describe a supposed group of people who go around enforcing ridiculously politically correct rules

en.wikipedia.org...(pejorative)

To be frank, theres no such group of individuals that have defended their actions

Where did I say there was?
I was commenting on those who will believe full life term imprisonment and minimum 40 years are a breach of the murderers human rights and far too excessive and not the actual murder.
I sincerely hope you can differentiate the two?

....so you are reading the situation completely wrong.

Hmmm....am I?

Their life will be like most other people's in prison, no different.

No it won't - they'll be on 45 for a start, 'most other people in prison' aren't.

I don't know why people seem to think that criminals in prison are some sort of unified force of morally upstanding individuals, because they're not. They're in prison for a reason.

Where have I, or anyone else for that matter, suggested anything of the sort? - you seem to be plucking assumptions out of thin air.

gortex
reply to post by andy06shake

 

Well great Brittan is this justice?

It's the toughest sentence we have available so barring a change in the law yes it is justice.

edit on 26-2-2014 by gortex because: (no reason given)

Agreed.

A good result.

RIP Lee.

reply to post by Freeborn


To be fair more people have died propagating the ideology and in the name of Jesus and Muhammad than Stalin and Hitler managed. The only difference being Stalin and Hitler didn't claim to be doing it in the name of God. Probably going to start a firestorm however i would suggest without organised religion dividing and isolating our species we would live in a more harmonious and unified world. It's my opinion Jesus and Muhammad have been a more destructive influence on our history than any tyrannical dictator and their archaic belief systems continue to cause nothing but trouble and conflict. I'm sure if Hitler was born 2014 years ago he would have claimed to be the son of God if it helped enforce his world view.

'God' lives inside us all, not in the pages of a book. Man cannot understand or begin to comprehend or put into words the complexity of the universe, let alone describe how it could have been created. All i know is we are all connected to all things, the universe and all contained within is God and we are part of that.

Maybe i should start a 'Jesus worse than Hitler' or 'Muhammad worse than Stalin' thread. Only thing stopping me is the thought of dealing with the delusional religious nutcases it will invariably attract.

reply to post by Grenade


Not saying I disagree with you, I just used the Hitler / Stalin / Pol Pot analogy to make a point.

Personally I'm agnostic so I reckon you'll be able to guess my take on 'organised religion'.

But this thread isn't about religion per se, (although I recognise the role it played in the crime), its about the sentence that was passed out as a result of the crime, I think.

Maybe i should start a 'Jesus worse than Hitler' or 'Muhammad worse than Stalin' thread. Only thing stopping me is the thought of dealing with the delusional religious nutcases it will invariably attract.

I've seen, and participated in, many such threads in my 7+ years of being a member here and I can assure you that you are 100% correct in your assessment of how the thread would develop.

If you wish to have the discussion then by all means start one, my only comment here would be bear in mind that Theists don't have a monopoly on having a dogmatic, blind faith mind set, many Atheists can be just as blinkered and closed to alternative opinions.

reply to post by Freeborn


I fully agree with you and have as much contempt for atheist's as i do for theists, anyone who claims to have a definitive answer on the subject of creation is showing a huge level of arrogance. The simple answer is, no-one knows.

My personal belief is we live in a computer simulation as its the most intriguing and plausible explanation. When we have the computational power to simulate our own universe and are creating them on digital media then i don't think there will be any doubt and i very much believe that one day we will be able to emulate our entire universe using a computer simulation. As to the origin of the 'higher' universe which spawned this one, i have no idea and it would be impossible to ever have an answer to that question.

So basically we live inside EA's The SIMS 2450 and your 'soul' is the user behind the screen.

The big bang was someone pressing the power button on their quantum computer probably, maybe, possibly

Then again i have no idea and its just wild speculation.

Anyway, way off topic now.

Too bad you can't ship 'em to Texas.

To all those crying out for the death penatly

Great idea....

Except they will want to be put to death. Rember they want to martyr themselfs and are waiting to go to heaven and get there 70 whatever virgins.


Putting them to death is a reward for them!

No life without any chance for parole is what they need.

reply to post by Lysergic


Shame about Australia as well, guess we need to terraform the moon or build a moonbase/prison and send all high risk prisoners there for manual labor to establish the groundwork on a permanent colony, then once their finished prepping the moon for the rest of us we can move them onto mars. Although not sure i want our first steps into the cosmos to be led on the back of criminals. Still, it means we wouldn't ever have to share a planet with them and at least they would be productive. Wouldn't have to worry about escape either as i don't think even criminals are dumb enough to go for a stroll without a breathable atmosphere.

reply to post by crazyewok


They believe they will receive their virgins but i think that's highly unlikely so a nice long eternal sleep might be a disappointment. Waste of air the pair of them, give them what they want.

reply to post by andy06shake


Lee wouldn't have died if we hadn't started a war with Islam.
Call it what you like but this is an eye for an eye.
It's very sad, and he leaves a broken family as do the other service personnel who died for lies and profit.

War needs to end.

Grenade
give them what they want.

Which is exactly why we shouldnt execute them!

How is it punishment when death is a reward for them?

Best is ti let them suffer long hard lives in prison.