Legal question about check fraud.

I just finished a large scale painting job with a person that I agreed to a certain pay cut with from the job. After the job completion, he wrote me a check, and asked me not to cash it until the home owner paid him. I held the check for several days, and then asked him when I could cash it. He told me to wait two days until Thursday. I waited, and then Thursday morning, he sent me a text that said:
I closed the account and canceled the check. I am not paying you.
I know that he has been paid by the home owner.
He ended up paying me 2/3 of what he owes me. I told him that he owes me more, but I would accept it.
Unfortunately I have signed a lien waiver, that included the words paid in full, so there is nothing I can do about collecting the money probably.
But I would like to find some way to give this guy a consequence for treating people like this.
I am under the impression that this is check fraud, and whether or not I get my money, he will go to jail, pay a fine, or at least suffer some business problems.
Any opinions on the matter, personal stories, or even jabs at my stupidity for trusting that dirt bag are welcome...

reply to post by apydomis


He wrote you a check and he has to pay.

Go to the bank and check the account, do not let go of the check.

Check with your local police, how much was it?

wow. That pisses me off.

Please keep us updated on this.

s+f

reply to post by apydomis

Unfortunately I have signed a lien waiver, that included the words paid in full, so there is nothing I can do about collecting the money probably.

Why would you sign anything?

Verbal contracts are verbal contracts are verbal contracts. Anything written is written in stone as far as the courts (civil) are concerned.

He ended up paying me 2/3 of what he owes me. I told him that he owes me more, but I would accept it.

He paid you with the cancelled check or by other means?

But I would like to find some way to give this guy a consequence for treating people like this.
I am under the impression that this is check fraud, and whether or not I get my money, he will go to jail, pay a fine, or at least suffer some business problems.

Vindictiveness is not a good trait. In business, the first emotion that pops up in a bad situation is how you wanna screw over the other guy, but it's not about that. It's about holding people to contract.

And after you have been burned a few times you learn to cover your ass with contracts and/or weed out all the bad vendors or in your case, employers.

I am under the impression that this is check fraud

Not really. First you would have to provide evidence that he negotiated a contract with you to be paid in cheque, for your services. (If you have that then by all means.)

Otherwise no one is to know who decided on what. If it's verbal contract you could have taken the job and requested cash after receiving the cheque, which he then cancelled because you were paid by other means. (Which he can claim in court or authority if it was investigated by LEO [though I am not really familiar with their procedures].)

You signed the waiver and that negates the 1st point.

The second point is he still presented a fraudulent check to you for payment. That's on him.

On the one hand....with you signing that...he knew he wasn't gonna pay you, and he played you for working for free...because you signed off. That's on you.

Bottom line? He still presented-for-payment-of-services-rendered (to you for painting)...regardless of you signing anything.
That's on him for a felony of writing a bad check, or writing a bad check on a closed account.

That's on him, is illegal, and a crime. Go to the bank, then the police.

Good luck...MS

So basically....you agreed on a price for a job, then he said he wasn't paying you and the check was no good....next time go to the bank anyway and deposit it. You'll either get your money, or you won't, but you'd have a legal leg to stand on....How do you know the account was closed? Maybe he just said that so you wouldn't cash the check....which obviously worked....then ...he got you to renegotiate the labor cost he owed you, sign a binding paid in full contract and paid you......is that correct?
If so, this guy has obviously done this before. Not sure where you live, but you can always post something about being aware of this guy on Angie's list, Craig's list, better business Bureau , and there's always social media! .....or you can try to find out where he's bidding on next, and underbid him by a little and start winning his contracts....you know ...take his business.

When he wrote you the check, that was him agreeing he was paying you. Keep the check but paid in full kinda means you accepted he did pay in full.

If anything this might be more of work complaint you could make. Not sure who to. Google it. You might be able to complain to the city to revoke his business license if he has one. If he doesn't have one he's up # creek for not having one.

Usually guys like him who don't pay get a bad reputation and people won't work for him. He's a #bag for doing that to you.

reply to post by apydomis


Try to cash the check at your bank, when it bounces anything that you signed saying it was paid is voided, then head to small claims court. Only way youll get your money sadly.

captb13
reply to post by apydomis

 

Try to cash the check at your bank, when it bounces anything that you signed saying it was paid is voided, then head to small claims court. Only way youll get your money sadly.

He is more likely to get it from a third party check cashing company. The ones that do payday loans etc.

The bank will not honour a stopped check. They will because they give cash on spot. And they will go after the contractor. While this would probably resolve the OPs situation, if the guy has done this a few times he may end up taking the OP to court but I kind of doubt it. (He could claim he paid you in cash.)

Whenever we do receipts and any "paid in full" there is always a note with cheque numbers on it, signed by both parties. If it's cash, it says "cash".

Plenty of times there were mix ups and as long as there's documentation it's never a problem.

reply to post by apydomis

Have you saved the text?
That's part of the evidence for intention to defraud, surely.

reply to post by boncho


I think his point is the minute its not honored, anything he signed that says "paid in full" is voided, so he then has the legal right to sue. Of course its not going to be honored. But it makes his fake contract null and void on being paid.

That's not check fraud. If he has an invoice that says paid in full you're SOL. Why didn't you just deposit the check in the first place then if he didn't cover it he's in trouble. Fees for overdraft. As of now your a day late and a dollar short .

reply to post by boncho


a very good point about vindictiveness.

reply to post by AutumnWitch657


I think that you are right. My lawyer cousin said to let it go, but to remember that truth is not slander.

He also said that when getting into a wrestling match with a pig, you're going to get covered in excrement, but the pig loves it.

I am disappointed about it, and even when I come to peace about it, it doesn't take much to get angry about it to the point of saying stupid things to my wife about it like "I just want to kick his teeth in." and "This guy is a piece of..."
I regret working with this guy, and I can just imagine he wont be working long in this valley.

apydomis
reply to post by boncho

 

a very good point about vindictiveness.

When you say he gave you 2/3s of what you expected, is that what he paid you already or was 2/3s the check? Can you clear that point up for us…

Thanks to everyone for your input!

reply to post by boncho


I accepted 2000 dollars an lost out on 800.

Deposit the check & let it bounce. Then take it to the DA's office to file a report.

Sorry you got involved with a scab.

Good luck in getting what is owed to you.

Take the check to your bank and tell them the story. It's check fraud. They will tell you your options.

Any time you deposit a check the bank teller looks the check over. A payroll check is deposited immediately and the funds are instantly available. Any check written from a bank other than yours can be put on hold for up to 10 days i believe. The funds are not placed in your account until the check clears. That is to avoid check fraud. If the bank gives you the cash and the check bounces you are responsible for repaying the bank the money. The check hold process is there to protect you as much as the bank.