All Aboard! Next stop, Police-State and Groping!

This is the truth. The American "majority" are so conditioned to "sissy" that they are the type of people who if their home was broken into, they would cower in a dark corner clutching a cellphone with a 911 operator on the other end, praying that 1. the thugs just go away and/or 2. the police actually arrive in time to stop the bad men. And this,sadly, isn't even the beginning of it. they actually believe that if guns were outlawed that the "bad guys" wouldn't have them. then you have the fed poking its nose where it doesn't belong.its just sickening to see parents who aren't "allowed" to walk their children home from school (i can find the vid if you need) idk, it just so mind boggling how most of my countrymen would just bend over and take it in the darkstar for the name of "security"

reply to post by benrl


As a former Army paratrooper and a present day LEO of 13 years, I want to emphasize that the word Liberty and Freedom are not the same. Liberties are allowances,privileges that are earned or deserved. We confuse these two words too often. Freedom is ..just what it says....to be free. Society needs structure and order, rules.....and liberties that are earned...not handed out like pieces of candy. We are sometimes damned if we do and damned if we dont on issues of security. If there had been a bomb that exploded during this event, many would say we're not doing enuff. If we dont find anything harmful, security is an inconvenience and aggravation. I would like to emphasize that I am not a "sissy". Im ex army, a LEO, love my guns, was an athelete in school in several sports, former paratrooper, love boxing and MMA...the list goes on...but I also believe in order.....rules....and public safety. When you stray from your personal "castle"....you become under the authority of civil code.....no one is above this...and no one should....

reply to post by Aazadan



So true..security has a price. Wisest thing said in this thread.

beezzer

ImaFungi
Would anyone be complaining if TSA agents were supermodels?

Just my wife.

Yeah, I'm with you pal...only if it's your wife.

Boog911
reply to post by benrl

 

As a former Army paratrooper and a present day LEO of 13 years, I want to emphasize that the word Liberty and Freedom are not the same. Liberties are allowances,privileges that are earned or deserved. We confuse these two words too often.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

The fact that you are a LEO and hold such views frightens me...

If your view is the common Leo view, well...-



Thankfully our founders told us what to do in the event the "authorities" decided or Liberty was a Privileged not a right.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,

reply to post by beezzer


I became disgusted by the state not long after my birth and long before 911!
This is nothing surprising and will only get consistently worse! we are all
slaves to a system dominated by .01% of the people! We let our fears control
every aspect of our lives because it is our most primal emotion! As long as
this is the case we will never allow love, forgiveness and understanding to dominate
our world to lead us into a cooperative society devoid of tyranny and exploitation!

“In the state of nature, liberty consists of being free from any superior power on Earth. People are not under the will or lawmaking authority of others but have only the law of nature for their rule. In political society, liberty consists of being under no other lawmaking power except that established by consent in the commonwealth. People are free from the dominion of any will or legal restraint apart from that enacted by their own constituted lawmaking power according to the trust put in it. Thus, freedom is not as Sir Robert Filmer defines it: ‘A liberty for everyone to do what he likes, to live as he pleases, and not to be tied by any laws.’ Freedom is constrained by laws in both the state of nature and political society. Freedom of nature is to be under no other restraint but the law of nature. Freedom of people under government is to be under no restraint apart from standing rules to live by that are common to everyone in the society and made by the lawmaking power established in it. Persons have a right or liberty to (1) follow their own will in all things that the law has not prohibited and (2) not be subject to the inconstant, uncertain, unknown, and arbitrary wills of others.” John Locke reply to post by benrl

“We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

Insure domestic tranquility........establish justice.....promote the general welfare.......sounds like laws, structure, guidelines to me....laws that condemn certain behaviors.....and allow...grant liberties....for others.

Most of our laws are and have been created in response to actions by citizens who DIDNT have the general welfare of their neighbors in mind. People stole...we said no stealing. People killed, we said no murder. Etc etc etc....

Yes, sometimes there have been knee jerk reaction laws created. But there are mechanisms for us to change those laws. ...but back to my point...

Liberty is not freedom. It is the ability to perform certain actions without restraint. But as a nation of laws, we have restraints in place. And more times than not....those restraints are in place because we, a nation, as a whole, put them there, to protect ourselves....from ourselves...

When someone asked me the other day who I thought was going to win the superbowl, I quickly responded the Terrorist have already won it.

Boog911
“We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

Insure domestic tranquility........establish justice.....promote the general welfare.......sounds like laws, structure, guidelines to me....laws that condemn certain behaviors.....and allow...grant liberties....for others.

Most of our laws are and have been created in response to actions by citizens who DIDNT have the general welfare of their neighbors in mind. People stole...we said no stealing. People killed, we said no murder. Etc etc etc....

Yes, sometimes there have been knee jerk reaction laws created. But there are mechanisms for us to change those laws. ...but back to my point...

Liberty is not freedom. It is the ability to perform certain actions without restraint. But as a nation of laws, we have restraints in place. And more times than not....those restraints are in place because we, a nation, as a whole, put them there, to protect ourselves....from ourselves...

edit on 3-2-2014 by Boog911 because: tyo error and didnt finish

Webster Dictionary:
Liberty -
the quality or state of being free:
a : the power to do as one pleases
b : freedom from physical restraint
c : freedom from arbitrary or despotic control

but thanks for showing us yet again why we hate the po po

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus



From the mirram webster dictionary :


d :  the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges
e :  the power of choice
2
a :  a right or immunity enjoyed by prescription or by grant :  privilege
b :  permission especially to go freely within specified limits

Qnd everyone hates the po po......til they need one.

Boog911
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

From the mirram webster dictionary :


d :  the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges
e :  the power of choice
2
a :  a right or immunity enjoyed by prescription or by grant :  privilege
b :  permission especially to go freely within specified limits

Qnd everyone hates the po po......til they need one.

yeah you had to get all the way down into "D" and "2" range to finally get to something that sort of corresponds to your argument.

po po is good for cleaning up after the crime. Once I am dead, bloodied, raped or robbed .... then the po po does a great job of taking names and times and descriptions of the crime. They are not so good at "preventing" crime.

but I don't really hate po po .... I know you guys have a shmmittt job and are in constant danger but....99% of us are not your enemy.....so stop treating us like we are!

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus



I appreciate that you dont hate the police. Im actually a deputy sheriff and believe it or not there is a different mindset there when comes to enforcement.

Im all for people being able to defend themselves. In my county, 2 officers cover 967 square miles with a populatiin of 45,000 . We're outmanned and outgunned and have welcomed the assistance of private citizens at different times.

But if an officer gets complacent in his diligence and safety he usually winds up hurt.....or worse...

But what we're talking about here is civil liberties...and where the proper definition of liberty needs to be defined. At your castle....do what you want...I dont care....if you want to swing from a chandlier while smoking a crack pipe and reading ATS.....I truly dont care.

But when you step into the public arena of life....its a different story....I may be mistaken but I think it was Ben Franklin who said, "my rights end where another's begin".......

reply to post by Boog911


So in your mind, liberties don't exist anywhere but your home? Am I reading that correctly? I hope I am misunderstanding you, because that is absurd if you really think that.

Lol...and btw...I wasnt implying that you're hanging from a chandlier smoking crack....I can tell you're an intelligent person with a concern that is valid.

Civic liberites and personal freedoms have always clashed and the pendelum of justice has swung in favor of both at different times.

When a LEO has violated a citizens personal freedoms at times the pendulum has swung drastically in favor of the citizen and when events such as 911 it has swung in favor law enforcement.

This balancing act is precarious at times and we need citizens like you to remind this nation when its unbalanced...but I also would like for you to consider the notion that the security of this nations citizens sometimes must outweigh the personal freedoms we have when we meet in society as a whole.

There are dangerous people in our nation. There is plenty of evidence of this. And most people are not wolf like in their personalities but are just part of the herd. They dont want to know about the bad and just want to get up in the morning, go to work, worship their God, get on their facebook account, go to the ball game....and the whole time...they are totally oblivious to the dangers around them.....until its too late....and guess who they blame.....

When 911 occurred, many citizens blamed the govt. (Im not saying they're wrong)...and looked what happened...we passed laws that stepped on personal freedoms....and no one minded for awhile...until the memory of 911 became a little more distant in their minds....

Boog911
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

I appreciate that you dont hate the police. Im actually a deputy sheriff and believe it or not there is a different mindset there when comes to enforcement.

Im all for people being able to defend themselves. In my county, 2 officers cover 967 square miles with a populatiin of 45,000 . We're outmanned and outgunned and have welcomed the assistance of private citizens at different times.

But if an officer gets complacent in his diligence and safety he usually winds up hurt.....or worse...

But what we're talking about here is civil liberties...and where the proper definition of liberty needs to be defined. At your castle....do what you want...I dont care....if you want to swing from a chandlier while smoking a crack pipe and reading ATS.....I truly dont care.

But when you step into the public arena of life....its a different story....I may be mistaken but I think it was Ben Franklin who said, "my rights end where another's begin".......

well at least you are a deputy so a "real" law enforcement officer under the badge of an elected official......

that is good

Boog911

This balancing act is precarious at times and we need citizens like you to remind this nation when its unbalanced...but I also would like for you to consider the notion that the security of this nations citizens sometimes must outweigh the personal freedoms we have when we meet in society as a whole.

This is where you guys with guns and badges start to scare me and want to arm up...NO NO NO

There are dangerous people in our nation. There is plenty of evidence of this. And most people are not wolf like in their personalities but are just part of the herd. They dont want to know about the bad and just want to get up in the morning, go to work, worship their God, get on their facebook account, go to the ball game....and the whole time...they are totally oblivious to the dangers around them.....until its too late....and guess who they blame.....

uhhhh.....bad guys????

...and looked what happened...we passed laws that stepped on personal freedoms....and no one minded for awhile...

No one minded? I minded and millions like me minded!!!

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus



Dont be ridiculous. You have the personal freedom to drink alcohol but you dont have the personal freedom to drink it while your driving because it could possibly affect others that are driving on a public road with you. When it comes to that public road, youre personal freedom has to take a back seat to the safety of the public..

And not everyone is allowed to drive on that public road. Only those who have shown a proficiency in driving by acquiring a license are allowed. Why is this? For public safety. But if you get a license, you are given the liberty of driving on public roads. What is so hard to understand about this. Are you so selfish and self centered that you put yourself above the very society you live in? Is it really "me, me, me" in your mind?

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus



And after reading your post and your comment about the county law being a real LEO....im really believing you are a Sovereign Citizen....sounds just like what one of them say. NOT a good thing...

UxoriousMagnus

Boog911
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

I appreciate that you dont hate the police. Im actually a deputy sheriff and believe it or not there is a different mindset there when comes to enforcement.

Im all for people being able to defend themselves. In my county, 2 officers cover 967 square miles with a populatiin of 45,000 . We're outmanned and outgunned and have welcomed the assistance of private citizens at different times.

But if an officer gets complacent in his diligence and safety he usually winds up hurt.....or worse...

But what we're talking about here is civil liberties...and where the proper definition of liberty needs to be defined. At your castle....do what you want...I dont care....if you want to swing from a chandlier while smoking a crack pipe and reading ATS.....I truly dont care.

But when you step into the public arena of life....its a different story....I may be mistaken but I think it was Ben Franklin who said, "my rights end where another's begin".......

well at least you are a deputy so a "real" law enforcement officer under the badge of an elected official......

that is good

So other people that help defend your rights aren't "real" LEO's? Please explain that comment, I find it very offensive..