What is "the holy grail"; is it a cup or a bloodline

adjensen
The term was invented for fictional literature from about 1100AD, so you'd best assume that it means what it meant in that context, which was dish ware. "Holy Grail" is a take off on the "Holy Chalice" of Christ, which was the cup that he drank from at the Last Supper, and which no one has clue one as to where it is.

The "Royal bloodline" thing stems from a known 20th Century hoax, the Priory of Sion. No one with any credibility lends any credence to the theory.

Thanks for bringing common sense to this thread.It isn't difficult to find the truth about these kinds of speculations about nothing .

Rex282

adjensen
The term was invented for fictional literature from about 1100AD, so you'd best assume that it means what it meant in that context, which was dish ware. "Holy Grail" is a take off on the "Holy Chalice" of Christ, which was the cup that he drank from at the Last Supper, and which no one has clue one as to where it is.
The "Royal bloodline" thing stems from a known 20th Century hoax, the Priory of Sion. No one with any credibility lends any credence to the theory.

What term exactly was invented (for the masses) for whom and why? Fictional literature had not even been contempated in the 1100s (there were no literates to read it or printing presses to manufacture any manuscripts on mass). Everything was stylus ink to paper. You people that have Wikipedia.org as your god information GO TO ONLY Encyclopaedia Brittanica circa 1963 are pathetic. There is no theory here just a question? What does the Holy Grail mean; a BLOODLINE or a CHALISE. Priory of Sion is a NO THING to be considered because I did not introduce it as it is an obvious deflect (you did). So, answer the question, is the Holy Grail the bloodline of the devine Jesus human, or a cup he drank from (you realize this is a trick question).

reply to post by vethumanbeing


So you think that the Priory of Sion was serious?

Really?

adjensen
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

So you think that the Priory of Sion was serious? Really?

Why is it being brought up? I havent; its not on my radar at all. REX282 brought it up 3 posts up (ask him).

reply to post by vethumanbeing


That is the source of the whole "bloodline" business. It doesn't exist beyond that.

adjensen
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

 

That is the source of the whole "bloodline" business. It doesn't exist beyond that.

What exactly is the source of the whole 'bloodline' business; and why does it not exist beyond WHAT? (your speculations) I know, a link somewhere to the Encyclops ONE eyed Wiki-YETI; still trying to prove it exists as a viable information system and still not found in the wilds of Yakima Washington. JESUS is there living (very tricky/stealthy)as a yeti/sasquach, we just have to catch it, cage it and make our demands known. Then maybe re-release the ideaform 'Christianity' upon mankind YET AGAIN (will it stick) and does it matter.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


What?

Please provide evidence that exists beyond the already debunked 20th Century hoax.

Extraordinary explanations require extraordinary evidence.

Please provide some.

adjensen
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

 

Please provide evidence that exists beyond the already debunked 20th Century hoax. Extraordinary explanations require extraordinary evidence.
Please provide some.

What are you speaking of? Ive NO IDEA; what debunked evidence of a 20th century hoax?

vethumanbeing
There are theories as to what the 'HOLY GRAIL" actually means, is it a vessel, or does it have the greater meaning of being this: the bloodline of Jesus. Those that seek the Holy Grail are actually persueing a cup from the last supper? The greater metaphor would be the bloodline of Jesus's Davidian family heritage. Some say the actual very simple alabaster cup was found in Scotland, taken there by Templars centuries ago.

Romantic fantasy, but the real answer is much simpler.

Jesus was a fan of speaking about His Cup. It just wasn't a physical cup, it was a metaphorical one. "May this cup pass from me." "Can any of you drink from the cup from which I am going to drink?"

This is the true Holy Grail, that we drink from the same metaphorical cup that was poured out on Jesus.

vethumanbeing

adjensen
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

So you think that the Priory of Sion was serious? Really?

Why is it being brought up? I havent; its not on my radar at all. REX282 brought it up 3 posts up (ask him).

edit on 28-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

uhhh..... Whaaaaaat!!

I did not say any such thing VHB.I was lauding adjensen for his common sense on this subject instead of the rampant speculation about nothing.

The "holy grail is strictly mans religious invention.There is zero truth in it.It not only isn't on my radar it won't show up on any real radar because it's pure fiction ....religious drivel.I bet someone will claim there is a cloak stained with the tear Jesus shed when he "cried" for Lazarus (bless his soul!) from the shortest verse in the bible and... it can cure "heartache"!!!

It's no wonder so many cannot take the scriptures seriously so many have turned it into a joke with their foolish beliefs when they "interpret" it like a bad B movie plot by reading fantasy into it.

it's neither..

it's the Ark of the Covenant.. which has still never been found, but, as CT's go, the Knights Templar seem to have found it (IMO)

and I would like to know where the vail that was torn ended up as well.. and the massive golden basin where the priest washed at ..

yea... it all leads back to the Temple, in the day, probably worth in the upwards of billions of dollars today..

reply to post by Komodo


I don't think you can put a price on anything that was built by the love of God. There is a reason it still stands in Jerusalem of all places, to this day.

Solomon's Temple has been soiled by invaders, but God has protected it for all of these centuries of people fighting over it. It's a f***ing honest to God miracle, if you ask me.

Oh, here's $0.02.

GodIsRelative


I don't think you can put a price on anything that was built by the love of God. There is a reason it still stands in Jerusalem of all places, to this day.

Solomon's Temple has been soiled by invaders, but God has protected it for all of these centuries of people fighting over it. It's a f***ing honest to God miracle, if you ask me.

Oh, here's $0.02.

edit on 29-1-2014 by GodIsRelative because: two cents

The 1st temple is Solomons temple and has been destroyed since around 587BCE.The 2nd temple called Herods temple was completely destroyed in 70AD.

First of all, I think we need to separate the Holy grail cup, from a possible blood line. There may well be a different symbol for the Holy grail, and there may also exist a blood line as well, that has no connection to the Holy grail metaphor.

I personally think the Holy grail is about seeking and finding/receiving, the Holy Spirit. The grail cup according to legend, is said to give one eternal life, to the drinker from the cup. The same can also be said of receiving the Spirit of God, and is symbolic of Jesus speech at the last supper, with chalice of wine, representing blood, which in turn is symbolic metaphor, for receiving the Holy Spirit IMO.


As for a secret blood line, I think that’s a separate issue…which there is some potentially good evidence for…


Here are a few clues…


Firstly, Mary Magdalene is described as Jesus companion, in the “Gospel of Philip”

The Gospel of Philip
There were three who always walked with the Lord: Mary, his mother, and her sister, and Magdalene, the one who was called his companion. His sister and his mother and his companion were each a Mary.

The Gospel of Philip
As for the Wisdom who is called "the barren," she is the mother of the angels. And the companion of the [...] Mary Magdalene. [...] loved her more than all the disciples, and used to kiss her often on her [mouth.]

Source

And in the above verse, the word “mouth” is what scholars consider to be the best Coptic word, to fit the gap.


Next we have the Gospel of Mary, a fairly recent edition to the Gnostic texts…

The Gospel of Mary Chapter 9:6-10

6) Levi answered and said to Peter, Peter you have always been hot tempered.

7) Now I see you contending against the woman like the adversaries.

8) But if the Savior made her worthy, who are you indeed to reject her? Surely the Savior knows her very well.

9) That is why He loved her more than us. Rather let us be ashamed and put on the perfect Man, and separate as He commanded us and preach the gospel, not laying down any other rule or other law beyond what the Savior said.

10) And when they heard this they began to go forth to proclaim and to preach.

Source

Note the phrase made “her worthy”, and how the saviour loved her more than the other disciples etc…

This runs parallel to that last line, in the Gospel of Thomas below…with Peter again being the main protagonist…

The Gospel of Thomas 114
114 Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life."

2 Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. 3For every female who makes herself male will enter the domain of Heaven."

And, we have the recently discovered “Gospel of Jesus Wife”

Gospel of Jesus Wife
2 ] The disciples said to Jesus, “.(missing text…)

3 ] deny. Mary is worthy of it (missing text…)

4 ]……” Jesus said to them, “My wife..[ (missing text…)

5 ]… she will be able to be my disciple . . [

Source


And then there’s the curious tradition, of the Gospel according to John, which was only ascribed to John, sometime in the 2nd century…

The “disciple whom Jesus loved”, is clearly Mary Magdalene in those other Gnostic texts, but a “beloved Disciple” is also mentioned in “John”, 6 times …here’s one example…

John 21:20-21
20Peter turned around, and sees the disciple whom Jesus loved following, that is, the one who in the supper had leaned back onto His chest and said, "Lord, who is the one betraying you?" 21 So when he saw this one, Peter says to Jesus, "Lord, and what about him?"

Source

In addition to the above, neither Matthew, Mark and Luke, make any reference to any of the disciples, witnessing the crucifixion.

And yet in Johns gospel, we have the following…

John 19:25-27
25 And near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, and his mother's sister; and the Mary belonging to Clopas, and the Magdalene Mary. 26 Jesus therefore, seeing his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing near, says to his mother, "Dear woman, behold your son." 27 Then he says to the disciple, "Behold, your mother." And from that time on, that disciple took her into his own home.

Source


“Behold your son”, seems like a strange thing to say, considering the context of the verses…

Were the words “her” and “daughter” changed, to “him” and “son” in the above accounts…. Personally, I think it’s entirely possible…

Also, if you read john 20, it makes more logical sense, that Mary is the beloved disciple IMO, who returns to the tome, and that it’s been changed to try to cover it up…

I think evidence is there, if people honestly look for it. Also, why would Jesus need to have a “beloved disciple”, singled out, above the all rest (Rhetorical question)…Personally, I think it’s obvious, Jesus was married to Mary, and the church decided to hide it away…

It’s also highly likely (based on the Gnostic texts) that Peter was against Mary being a disciple, and that along with Paul, who leant towards Judaism, and it’s view on woman being subordinate to men, that they decided to remove Mary, as a disciple, from the texts…

The Cathars clearly had a long tradition of Mary and Jesus being married, which means the tradition from those Gnostic texts, was clearly carried on for many centuries. Perhaps Leonardo da Vinci was aware of these traditions, when he drew his famous “Last Supper” painting of John 13:24, with its iconic depiction, of a feminine disciple and depicting Peter with evil intent, towards the beloved disciple…

Last Supper


- JC

adjensen
reply to post by vethumanbeing

[iadjensen[/i[That is the source of the whole "bloodline" business. It doesn't exist beyond that.

Of course it does; and it involves the Davidian Bloodline; not only Jesus's as the central character in this epic motion picture. Joseph and Mary (his beligered parents) had other children; six more (some were step children granted, but some were also biological, 2 girls 3 boys). As Latino soap operas go; this bloodline still exists. Lets say in a reversal of story, all of them were fathered by an off world god; even more intrique and this plot line would continue for CENTURIES (without killing someone off in ridiculous manner; like a CRUCIFICTION for that mild mannered temperate character who was just trying to change the world).

Joecroft

JoecroftFirst of all, I think we need to separate the Holy grail cup, from a possible blood line. There may well be a different symbol for the Holy grail, and there may also exist a blood line as well, that has no connection to the Holy grail metaphor.

Metaphors are just the ODD fairy dust added to the caldren of truth to be decifered (still fun though).

Joecroft I personally think the Holy grail is about seeking and finding/receiving, the Holy Spirit. The grail cup according to legend, is said to give one eternal life, to the drinker from the cup. The same can also be said of receiving the Spirit of God, and is symbolic of Jesus speech at the last supper, with chalice of wine, representing blood, which in turn is symbolic metaphor, for receiving the Holy Spirit IMO.

I as well think that the Holy Grail and/or seeking thereof is a quest to understanding the Holy Spirit. As a metaphor is perfect for this idea of eternal life (drink from this eat of this). Perhaps in those times the metaphor is as poetry with many meanings interpreted TO THE INDIVIDUAL; and in THESE times th some take the blood/wine 'cup' idea literally (my faith in modernman is diminished saddly).

JoecroftAs for a secret blood line, I think that’s a separate issue…which there is some potentially good evidence for…
Here are a few clues…
Firstly, Mary Magdalene is described as Jesus companion, in the “Gospel of Philip”

Stop right here, you are suggesting they may have had children; (off world another dimension) or in France where she, 'the Magalene' is as revered as Jesus in Southern Babtist communities on the southern coastal regions of America.

Joecroft

The Gospel of Philip
There were three who always walked with the Lord: Mary, his mother, and her sister, and Magdalene, the one who was called his companion. His sister and his mother and his companion were each a Mary.

The Gospel of Philip
As for the Wisdom who is called "the barren," she is the mother of the angels. And the companion of the [...] Mary Magdalene. [...] loved her more than all the disciples, and used to kiss her often on her [mouth.]

Source
And in the above verse, the word “mouth” is what scholars consider to be the best Coptic word, to fit the gap.
Next we have the Gospel of Mary, a fairly recent edition to the Gnostic texts…

The Gospel of Mary Chapter 9:6-10
6) Levi answered and said to Peter, Peter you have always been hot tempered.
7) Now I see you contending against the woman like the adversaries.
8) But if the Savior made her worthy, who are you indeed to reject her? Surely the Savior knows her very well.
9) That is why He loved her more than us. Rather let us be ashamed and put on the perfect Man, and separate as He commanded us and preach the gospel, not laying down any other rule or other law beyond what the Savior said.
10) And when they heard this they began to go forth to proclaim and to preach.

Source

Note the phrase made “her worthy”, and how the saviour loved her more than the other disciples etc…

This runs parallel to that last line, in the Gospel of Thomas below…with Peter again being the main protagonist…

The Gospel of Thomas 114
114 Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life."

2 Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. 3For every female who makes herself male will enter the domain of Heaven."

And, we have the recently discovered “Gospel of Jesus Wife”

WHAT!!!? WHERE HOW WHEN!

Gospel of Jesus Wife
2 ] The disciples said to Jesus, “.(missing text…)
3 ] deny. Mary is worthy of it (missing text…)
4 ]……” Jesus said to them, “My wife..[ (missing text…)
5 ]… she will be able to be my disciple . . [

Source
And then there’s the curious tradition, of the Gospel according to John, which was only ascribed to John, sometime in the 2nd century…
The “disciple whom Jesus loved”, is clearly Mary Magdalene in those other Gnostic texts, but a “beloved Disciple” is also mentioned in “John”, 6 times …here’s one example…

John 21:20-21
20Peter turned around, and sees the disciple whom Jesus loved following, that is, the one who in the supper had leaned back onto His chest and said, "Lord, who is the one betraying you?" 21 So when he saw this one, Peter says to Jesus, "Lord, and what about him?"

Source

In addition to the above, neither Matthew, Mark and Luke, make any reference to any of the disciples, witnessing the crucifixion.
And yet in Johns gospel, we have the following…

John 19:25-27
disciple and depicting Peter with evil intent, towards the beloved disciple.

In regards to da Vinci; (had to edit ran out of characters) was certainly aware of the gnostic traditions; (what happened to him in his two year disapearance from earth), re-emerged with war machine drawings, ideas of an afterlife, the necessity to explain human anatomy to the layman. A Great Wonderful Post YYY.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


See the parable of the sower of the seed

www.biblegateway.com...

The "holy grail" is the innermost heart of man that gladly receives the word and the spirit of God and keeps it until it grows to become a new creation.

All Christians both men and women are women in this sense, pregnant and impregnated with the word of God through Jesus Christ.

The spirit and the bride consummate the new creation.

Whoever becomes co-mingled with the spirit of God is THE "holy grail".

It comes by listening with an open mind and heart in willing submission and surrender to the love of God which seeks unity with all his people as the Bride.

I am the holy grail and the bride of Christ - however poor a "wife" i might have been for running away and whoring after false idols.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I as well think that the Holy Grail and/or seeking thereof is a quest to understanding the Holy Spirit. As a metaphor is perfect for this idea of eternal life (drink from this eat of this). Perhaps in those times the metaphor is as poetry with many meanings interpreted TO THE INDIVIDUAL; and in THESE times th some take the blood/wine 'cup' idea literally (my faith in modernman is diminished saddly).

I know what you mean; King Arthur’s knights, still endlessly searching for a cup, surely it was all symbolic metaphor, for finding God…

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Stop right here, you are suggesting they may have had children; (off world another dimension) or in France where she, 'the Magalene' is as revered as Jesus in Southern Babtist communities on the southern coastal regions of America.

I have no knowledge of them having children. But I think enough circumstantial evidence exists, to show that there is more going on, than meets the eye.

Also, look at all those writers before Dan Brown, who wrote about this topic, over the last one and half centuries. These researchers, must be getting some evidence from somewhere.

Originally posted by Joecroft
And, we have the recently discovered “Gospel of Jesus Wife”

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
WHAT!!!? WHERE HOW WHEN!

HERE, NOW, TODAY! lol

Check the previous link…

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
In regards to da Vinci; (had to edit ran out of characters) was certainly aware of the gnostic traditions; (what happened to him in his two year disapearance from earth), re-emerged with war machine drawings, ideas of an afterlife, the necessity to explain human anatomy to the layman. A Great Wonderful Post YYY

Thanks, my post could have been a thread, all on its own…

- JC

NewAgeMan
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

See the parable of the sower of the seedwww.biblegateway.com...
The "holy grail" is the innermost heart of man that gladly receives the word and the spirit of God and keeps it until it grows to become a new creation.
All Christians both men and women are women in this sense, pregnant and impregnated with the word of God through Jesus Christ.
The spirit and the bride consummate the new creation.
Whoever becomes co-mingled with the spirit of God is THE "holy grail".
It comes by listening with an open mind and heart in willing submission and surrender to the love of God which seeks unity with all his people as the Bride.
I am the holy grail and the bride of Christ - however poor a "wife" i might have been for running away and whoring after false idols.

HEY NAM!! GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN here is a poem I wrote for you regarding your thoughtful post:

Are you the spirit or the bride
Are you what creation co-mingled
As a listening being with open mind;
A spirit of god grail expression

Submitting a seeking unity with,
That being outside your physical realm
You are in fact the grail itself
Or a poor wife in density formed

Trying not to RUN (not I)
Embracing what the idols form
That is trying, seeking, the finding of
The shielded unbridled truth.

Joecroft
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

VHB
I as well think that the Holy Grail and/or seeking thereof is a quest to understanding the Holy Spirit. As a metaphor is perfect for this idea of eternal life (drink from this eat of this). Perhaps in those times the metaphor is as poetry with many meanings interpreted TO THE INDIVIDUAL; and in THESE times some take the blood/wine 'cup' idea literally (my faith in modernman is diminished saddly).

Joecroft
I know what you mean; King Arthur’s knights, still endlessly searching for a cup, surely it was all symbolic metaphor, for finding God.

VHB
Stop right here, you are suggesting they may have had children; (off world another dimension) or in France where she, 'the Magalene' is as revered as Jesus in Southern Babtist communities on the eastern southern coastal regions of America.

Joecroft I have no knowledge of them having children. But I think enough circumstantial evidence exists, to show that there is more going on, than meets the eye.

The whole sholly doe-lly of studying blood line genetics is enough to convince me someone somewhere wants to pin a bloodline down (and is spending millions in donationations to do so) The Davidian; MARY MOTHER or the Jesus/Magdalene bloodline if offspring survived had they had children (why not).

JoecroftAlso, look at all those writers before Dan Brown, who wrote about this topic, over the last one and half centuries. These researchers, must be getting some evidence from somewhere.

This was not happenstance, I have said it for months; popular culture whether you like it or not is a seeding ground for mass populace to take in ideas to change perception of the where, what, why and how we exist here as humans (its hidden in the movies, Avatar/the books distributed attributed to Dan Brown including "Angels and Demons" Etc (why is no one seeing these are templates for truthtelling).

Joecroft
And, we have the recently discovered “Gospel of Jesus Wife”

VHB
WHAT!!!? WHERE HOW WHEN!

JoecroftHERE, NOW, TODAY! lol
Check the previous link.

VHB
In regards to da Vinci; (had to edit ran out of characters) was certainly aware of the gnostic traditions; (what happened to him in his two year disapearance from earth), re-emerged with war machine drawings, ideas of an afterlife, the necessity to explain human anatomy to the layman. A Great Wonderful Post YYY

JoecroftThanks, my post could have been a thread, all on its own.

Yes and why not; it SHOULD BE as is grand and precipitous to the times here.