What is "the holy grail"; is it a cup or a bloodline

There are theories as to what the 'HOLY GRAIL" actually means, is it a vessel, or does it have the greater meaning of being this: the bloodline of Jesus. Those that seek the Holy Grail are actually persueing a cup from the last supper? The greater metaphor would be the bloodline of Jesus's Davidian family heritage. Some say the actual very simple alabaster cup was found in Scotland, taken there by Templars centuries ago.

i made a thread about the bloodline conspiracy..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Did God create the Human Race before Adam and Eve? The Bloodline conspiracy is that the bible revolves around a Bloodline going back from adam up to jesus. The conspiracy here is that there is a certain bloodline that God had set up to rule the earth and that is why they call jesus the son of david; Because supposedly the davidic line goes all the way back to abraham, and Adam.



Adam and Eve cannot have been the only humans made by god; because of adam's son cain; after cain had slewed abel who was he afraid of killing him on sight? why did god have to mark cain in order to protect him from others?

The term was invented for fictional literature from about 1100AD, so you'd best assume that it means what it meant in that context, which was dish ware. "Holy Grail" is a take off on the "Holy Chalice" of Christ, which was the cup that he drank from at the Last Supper, and which no one has clue one as to where it is.

The "Royal bloodline" thing stems from a known 20th Century hoax, the Priory of Sion. No one with any credibility lends any credence to the theory.

Belcastro
i made a thread about the bloodline conspiracy..
www.abovetopsecret.com...

BelcastroDid God create the Human Race before Adam and Eve? The Bloodline conspiracy is that the bible revolves around a Bloodline going back from adam up to jesus. The conspiracy here is that there is a certain bloodline that God had set up to rule the earth and that is why they call jesus the son of david; Because supposedly the davidic line goes all the way back to abraham, and Adam.

Thankyou; Belcastro for referenced thread 979887; Ive always had the opinion that the judeo/christian Adam and Eve was just another future overlay embodieing a past one; another culture that had that existed previously (Sumerian) would be one of them (as a template). Keep the Adama Eva alive throughout the cultures on earth. Truth disguised as metaphor fairy stories. Its always the same story throughout many civilizations; (the same repeditive story with many religious dictomes--like Noahs flood).

A Monty Python Movie... HAHAHa

Assuming Jesus was the person that was described in the King James version, he was the son of God in mortal form correct. He didn't preforming any miracles that I'm aware of during the last supper, I can only assume that the cup or chalice he drank from is just and ordinary cup and not some magical religious artifact. The blood line idea seems to be line of reasoning if that "san grail" line translates like as it did in the Davinci Code.

I like to think of the the Holy Grail as a metaphor for his teaching and message, he was the holy grail and sent here to live as an example. The Idea of lead by example, and his message, or teachings are the greatest thing we could take away from his life and learn from him.

I don't really know, I just have ideas...

MonkeyMentat

MonkeyMentat
A Monty Python Movie... HAHAHa
Assuming Jesus was the person that was described in the King James version, he was the son of God in mortal form correct. He didn't preforming any miracles that I'm aware of during the last supper, I can only assume that the cup or chalice he drank from is just and ordinary cup and not some magical religious artifact. The blood line idea seems to be line of reasoning if that "san grail" line translates like as it did in the Davinci Code.

Yes; love the scene of the 'what is that! a virolent violent shrubbery (well manicured) IS about to attack? (take out your swords to defend YEY Knights!)' and the 'cave' dwelling wiley white rabbit AMBUSH. If Jesus was mortal, (still debated) as he did accend in a way that most mortals do not (rot in a grave or bonebox). The cup was just ordinary; a 5oz alabaster rolled bottom with no stem not a magical artifact. The grail is the metaphorical bloodline, not a chalice. Wait a minute, need to watch "The Life of Brian" to get a full spectral.

MonkeyMontat I like to think of the the Holy Grail as a metaphor for his teaching and message, he was the holy grail and sent here to live as an example. The Idea of lead by example, and his message, or teachings are the greatest thing we could take away from his life and learn from him. I don't really know, I just have ideas...

Perhaps the idea of a 'grail' is the message and those chasing it are reaching too far in that they may think its physical and not spiritual. Im not convinced its also the 'bloodline', where was it lost or does it still exist, and if so manifests today in someones family geneology. It has to exist, Mary and Joseph had other children; what happened with James, Jesus's brother? None of this makes sense.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


There are three possible versions, the Grail may be interpreted on a story that Joseph of arimethia collected the blood of christ at the cross but the bible makes no direct mention of such an act and indeed this is highly unlikely as it would like the cross itself have offended first or second century christian's,.
The second is that it is the most likely candidate which we all automatically think on, the very first grail from the first mass - ie the last supper and the cup christ used to drink from but as he was meaning the wine and each of the apostles may have had a cup of there own (though it may have been passed around in fellowship) and was probably a simple drinking bowl maybe of wood the representation is a matter of personal faith and for every christian the actual holy grail if they have faith is the chalice of the sacremant as the living god is seen to bless it as such,.
The Third stem's from a mistranslation in referance to a group of christian whom followed a version of christianity that was seen as heretical by the roman catholic church because they could not control it, they were called the cathars and claimed to possess the actual cup of christ but in the latin derivative language the word's "SAN GREAL" (hole grail) or "SANG REAL" (Blood Royal) are only one space apart from a mistranslation and this itself along with the claims of the french line of king's called the merovignians whom had no proof but like constantine before and Charlamane after used the church to try to justify there positions as holy line from christ the king which was an act of propeganda and nothing more.
There are other interpretations from possible pagan origin and indeed the Nazi's had a replica pagan grail made for magical ceremony's, the Celt's believed the god of the underworls feasted from a bowl of blood so the mis interpretation and cross wires of the early christian converts can be more clearly seen.

LABTECH767
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

LABTECH767There are three possible versions, the Grail may be interpreted on a story that Joseph of arimethia collected the blood of christ at the cross but the bible makes no direct mention of such an act and indeed this is highly unlikely as it would like the cross itself have offended first or second century christian's.

You are one of the first persons (CONGRATULATIONS) to mention Joseph of Arimetheia on this forum in at least the One 1/2 Years that Ive been here. We both win 1 million sheckles. It wouldnt surprise me if the idea machine pays out. No one seems to understand the correlation of Josephs affluience as it allowed for Jesus's caretaking schooling in Egypt as a boy. As a tin merchant was able to take him all over the Orient as he had ships. The missing years can be explained as such.

LABTECH767The second is that it is the most likely candidate which we all automatically think on, the very first grail from the first mass - ie the last supper and the cup christ used to drink from but as he was meaning the wine and each of the apostles may have had a cup of there own (though it may have been passed around in fellowship) and was probably a simple drinking bowl maybe of wood the representation is a matter of personal faith and for every christian the actual holy grail if they have faith is the chalice of the sacremant as the living god is seen to bless it as such

That cup found in Scotland was not very big, 5oz at most so they must have drank from a flagon; and had these small cups (as you say of their own). I know of the holy grail faith system, and the idea of drinking the blood of Christ as wine the bread eaten the body. Im saying the 'Grail' is the bloodline of Christ;s family and it is being sought.

LABTECH767The Third stem's from a mistranslation in referance to a group of christian whom followed a version of christianity that was seen as heretical by the roman catholic church because they could not control it, they were called the cathars and claimed to possess the actual cup of christ but in the latin derivative language the word's "SAN GREAL" (hole grail) or "SANG REAL" (Blood Royal) are only one space apart from a mistranslation and this itself along with the claims of the french line of king's called the merovignians whom had no proof but like constantine before and Charlamane after used the church to try to justify there positions as holy line from christ the king which was an act of propeganda and nothing more.
There are other interpretations from possible pagan origin and indeed the Nazi's had a replica pagan grail made for magical ceremony's, the Celt's believed the god of the underworlds feasted from a bowl of blood so the mis interpretation and cross wires of the early christian converts can be more clearly seen.

I cant speak to this, perhaps another can but is very intereresting LABTECH, I need another day to retrospect. In the meantime; beware of white rabbits.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


The following assumes that the reader is a Christian. Having said that, It's certainly a fascinating topic, but as far as I'm concerned, since there is no mention of it in the Bible and no reverence is given to it in the Bible... then who cares? If it's a cup, then it's just a cup. If it is a bloodline, such as His Davidian bloodline, then it's no secret because the genealogy of His Kingly bloodline is given in the book of Matthew. Contrary to Dan Brown novels, Jesus never married or had children. If he had married then it would have been accounted for in the Bible, besides Paul states in 1 Corinthians 7:1-7....

Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

He is saying that it is better for a man of God to be unmarried, because an unmarried man can focus all of his attention to the matters of God and spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We see that Paul is unmarried in verse 7. Paul is making the point that it is a spiritual gift to have the self control to refrain from sexual relations, but if one can't control himself, then he states in verse 9...

But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

If Paul, an imperfect and sinful man, had the self control to stay unmarried and refrain from sex, then I think that it is safe to say that Jesus Christ certainly did. Having said that, it is also safe to say that even though Jesus never married, He never had any children because that would mean that Jesus would have been guilty of fornication, which is a major sin, and that would mean that Jesus Christ was a sinner, and that would make Him not only a liar, but it would also make Him unworthy of dying on the cross for the sin of the world, because only a perfect man could die for the sin of the world. The only reason Jesus Christ was perfect and sin free was because He was God manifest in the flesh... fully God and fully man.

All of that to say this... if the holy grail is a cup, then it would be impossible to ever prove that some old cup buried under an old Templar temple is that cup, and even if it were proven... so what, it's just a cup. Because of the Biblical evidence and basic theological orthodoxy, the blood line of Jesus stayed with Jesus, because He never had any children, so if the holy grail was indeed His bloodline, there are no physical or genealogical descendants of Jesus on earth today, so any search along those lines would be in vain.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime

The only reason Jesus Christ was perfect and sin free was because He was God manifest in the flesh... fully God and fully man.

How could Jesus have been fully man if he never sinned? If all men are under the curse of sin and Jesus never sinned it goes to reason that he could not have been fully man, if he was fully man then it goes to reason that he did sin because all men sin. If he was fully man and never sinned then original sin does not exist and we can all be perfect like Jesus was if we really try.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

The only reason Jesus Christ was perfect and sin free was because He was God manifest in the flesh... fully God and fully man.

How could Jesus have been fully man if he never sinned?

That's interesting but not actually helpful for this specific discussion which is specifically about the holy grail. The discussion of Christ's deity and humanity is best suited for another topic.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


I remember reading somewhere that the grail symbolizes the womb of a woman.

Because it hasn't been said…

The grail is symbolic.

Infilling of the Holy Spirit.

Enlightenment

a state of grace

short list… any others?

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

The only reason Jesus Christ was perfect and sin free was because He was God manifest in the flesh... fully God and fully man.

How could Jesus have been fully man if he never sinned? If all men are under the curse of sin and Jesus never sinned it goes to reason that he could not have been fully man, if he was fully man then it goes to reason that he did sin because all men sin. If he was fully man and never sinned then original sin does not exist and we can all be perfect like Jesus was if we really try.

edit on 1/28/2014 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

He was fully man because, as stated in John 1:14, He was manifest in the flesh. He was born to a human woman and lived as a human being for 33 years. He got tired like us, hungered and thirsted like us. He sweat, bled, cried, and did everything else that a human being does... except sin. He was tempted like us, except He didn't give in to temptation like we often do. Original sin does indeed exist, because in Romans 3:23 we see that ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

I understand your argument, because I used to make the same argument. Jesus is His human name. His (for lack of a better word) God name is "the Word". The Trinity consists of the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. Often times the Word is replaced with the Son, but they are one in the same. We see in John 1...

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

then, as mentioned before, we see in verse 14..

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

So in John chapter 1 we see that the Word IS God. We see everything was created through the Word, and that the Word is the light and life of all mankind. Then we see the Word was manifest in the flesh... this is where the Word (God) became the human man Jesus. We see in Matthew 1:20 where Jesus gets His human name from...

20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

The fact that Jesus was fully God AND fully man is the only reason that He was able to not sin. He overcame the sins of the flesh with His Holiness. You must realize that because Jesus is God, that He could have called a legion of angels down on the Pharisees or the Roman guards at anytime, but he humbled himself and He knew that His destiny here on Earth was to die the sacrificial death for the sin of all mankind, which is the greatest act of love in history.

Finally, the ultimate Biblical proof that Jesus was God AND Man. In Psalm 8:4-6 we see...

what is mankind that you are mindful of them,
human beings that you care for them?
5 You have made them a little lower than the angels
and crowned them with glory and honor.
6 You made them rulers over the works of your hands;
you put everything under their feet:

We see here that God made man a little lower than the angels. Now in Hebrews 2:9 we see..

9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

We see here that Jesus was made a little lower than the angels for a little while. So in John 1 we see that the Word was God and was manifest in the flesh. In Matthew 1 we see that The Word was given the name Jesus when He was manifest in the flesh. In Psalm 8 we see that God made man a little lower than the angels, and in Hebrews 2 we see that Jesus was made a little lower than the angels for a while, meaning that He was made a man for a little while. In conclusion... Jesus = 100% God and 100% man.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

3NL1GHT3N3D1The only reason Jesus Christ was perfect and sin free was because He was God manifest in the flesh... fully God and fully man.

Where the heck did he misplace his cup/chalice after the last supper?
Someone should/would have nicked it (dna evidence spitle form/from).

3NL1GHT3N3D1 How could Jesus have been fully man if he never sinned? If all men are under the curse of sin and Jesus never sinned it goes to reason that he could not have been fully man, if he was fully man then it goes to reason that he did sin because all men sin. If he was fully man and never sinned then original sin does not exist and we can all be perfect like Jesus was if we really try.

Im not certain the inanimate vessel 'grail' sinned. Are you saying Jesus was the vessel, and if so, not flattering to its ultimate ministry. Is the bloodline of Jesus contaminated?by original sin; and how does this corrolate to 'the idea of a holy grail" IT as the potencial bloodline lost? Fully a man I suppose and still of blood; sin has nothing to do with anything original regarding Mankinds manifestation (only its usership by others).

What am I missing here, a basic arguement? Tell me?

Tucket
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

I remember reading somewhere that the grail symbolizes the womb of a woman.

Tucket, that would absolutely be in line with a blood/genetic trail.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


Yes, but is the holy grail a cup or a bloodline? Who is seeking it and why? Is Jesus part of the bloodline; of course he is because his mother had an invisible birth anomoly and Jesus's father (unless you can explain this to me reasonably was what?).
The whole point of figureing out the bloodline is to determine if the father was an off planet being. Who Was Jesus's father; and where have his bloodlines led?

intrptr
Because it hasn't been said…

The grail is symbolic.
Infilling of the Holy Spirit.
Enlightenment
a state of grace
short list… any others?

I will tell you now, it is nothing short of symbolic (as is the same thing) It was a metaphor that actually tells the truisms of things. The grail in factual is not about anything but symbolism for a greater concept. You have the edges defined not the core. Nice work Intrptr.

dbates
3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

OptimusSubprime
The only reason Jesus Christ was perfect and sin free was because He was God manifest in the flesh... fully God and fully man.

InlightHow could Jesus have been fully man if he never sinned?

DbatesThat's interesting but not actually helpful for this specific discussion which is specifically about the holy grail. The discussion of Christ's deity and humanity is best suited for another topic.

This is a What? What? Jesus had to sin to fully be a man? Id never heard the man was anything other than gracious and temperate. So that disqualifies him as a man. I suppose only 'deification' is left. Thankyou Dbates for clarification.