Doesn't Light speed theory debunk "Young earth" theory?

see what I mean ^.^;

UxoriousMagnus

Akragon

Pistoche
You're using science to prove science. Young Earth proponents wouldn't have none of that.

"It's all a mainstream conspiracy, dontcha know?"

Technically im using science to disprove a book written millennia ago... the same book that states the world is flat in some spots

Yes it does say that.... it compares the earth to a seal.. which is a small circular FLAT object

where does the Bible say the earth is flat?...or compares it to this "seal" you speak of?

edit on 28-1-2014 by UxoriousMagnus because: (no reason given)

Job 38
Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,
13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.

Im sure you'll say im taking it out of context... but it clearly says

1. the earth has "edges"

2. the earth takes "shape" as clay under a seal... meaning its flat

Clay was pressed flat under a "seal" to get the shape or impression of whatever is on the seal...

UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by Akragon

 

So....playing devils advocate here....

So....lets say there is an all powerful God that created the heavens and earth and physics and light and everything else.....but he couldn't accelerate light....you know.....so that it corresponded with His "let there be light" speech? I am not saying I believe this idea.....just asking the question.

Powerful enough to invent and make light out of nothing but not powerful enough to accelerate it to his needs.

edit on 28-1-2014 by UxoriousMagnus because: (no reason given)

I suppose if you look at it backwards like that...

How about God made certain laws that can't be broken by man... Whether or not HE can break them is completely beside the point

Akragon

UxoriousMagnus

Akragon

Pistoche
You're using science to prove science. Young Earth proponents wouldn't have none of that.

"It's all a mainstream conspiracy, dontcha know?"

Technically im using science to disprove a book written millennia ago... the same book that states the world is flat in some spots

Yes it does say that.... it compares the earth to a seal.. which is a small circular FLAT object

where does the Bible say the earth is flat?...or compares it to this "seal" you speak of?

edit on 28-1-2014 by UxoriousMagnus because: (no reason given)

Job 38
Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,
13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.

Im sure you'll say im taking it out of context... but it clearly says

1. the earth has "edges"

2. the earth takes "shape" as clay under a seal... meaning its flat

Clay was pressed flat under a "seal" to get the shape or impression of whatever is on the seal...

earth does have edges.. and canyons.. etc.. you'll also find in the Bible somewhere or another it states that it is a celestial body that orbits around the sun. IDK if I feel like doing the research, but it's there somewhere.. before it was ever scientifically proven.

Antipathy17
reply to post by Akragon

 

I like this post but I do have some problems with it. I

I know you didn't really state enough to give me an opinion of how you feel about the bible. You did make a statement that would help me lean towards one though. My reply isn't pointed directly what you said. It's more just how I feel.

I personally believe that over time the bible has been re-written if not at the very least edited in ways to make it unrecognizable. Some of the messages might hold some merit but we can't say whats true or not. Same with history. I just don't think we should give negative impressions about those who are mislead. Instead try to guide them. With people of strong belief this may be challenging but to me, people who aren't willing to try are as looked down on by me like those strong believers are looked down on by others. Teach and progress.

IF you want to know my opinion of the bible you'll just have to look through my threads... My opinion of the book is not the topic of the thread

Look though the religion & theology theads I have.... a good portion of my threads land there

Jarring

Akragon

UxoriousMagnus

Akragon

Pistoche
You're using science to prove science. Young Earth proponents wouldn't have none of that.

"It's all a mainstream conspiracy, dontcha know?"

Technically im using science to disprove a book written millennia ago... the same book that states the world is flat in some spots

Yes it does say that.... it compares the earth to a seal.. which is a small circular FLAT object

where does the Bible say the earth is flat?...or compares it to this "seal" you speak of?

edit on 28-1-2014 by UxoriousMagnus because: (no reason given)

Job 38
Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,
13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.

Im sure you'll say im taking it out of context... but it clearly says

1. the earth has "edges"

2. the earth takes "shape" as clay under a seal... meaning its flat

Clay was pressed flat under a "seal" to get the shape or impression of whatever is on the seal...

earth does have edges.. and canyons.. etc.. you'll also find in the Bible somewhere or another it states that it is a celestial body that orbits around the sun. IDK if I feel like doing the research, but it's there somewhere.. before it was ever scientifically proven.

Well theres also places that say the earth is round... the point was brought up to show that the some of the bibles messages are flawed bigtime... it also says the moon gives off its own light

As far as the edges of the earth is concerned... its clearly talking about an actual edge of the earth... to "shake the wicked out of it"

as if the wicked may fall off of its edge

Akragon

Jarring

Akragon

UxoriousMagnus

Akragon

Pistoche
You're using science to prove science. Young Earth proponents wouldn't have none of that.

"It's all a mainstream conspiracy, dontcha know?"

Technically im using science to disprove a book written millennia ago... the same book that states the world is flat in some spots

Yes it does say that.... it compares the earth to a seal.. which is a small circular FLAT object

where does the Bible say the earth is flat?...or compares it to this "seal" you speak of?

edit on 28-1-2014 by UxoriousMagnus because: (no reason given)

Job 38
Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,
13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.

Im sure you'll say im taking it out of context... but it clearly says

1. the earth has "edges"

2. the earth takes "shape" as clay under a seal... meaning its flat

Clay was pressed flat under a "seal" to get the shape or impression of whatever is on the seal...

earth does have edges.. and canyons.. etc.. you'll also find in the Bible somewhere or another it states that it is a celestial body that orbits around the sun. IDK if I feel like doing the research, but it's there somewhere.. before it was ever scientifically proven.

Well theres also places that say the earth is round... the point was brought up to show that the some of the bibles messages are flawed bigtime... it also says the moon gives off its own light

As far as the edges of the earth is concerned... its clearly talking about an actual edge of the earth... to "shake the wicked out of it"

as if the wicked may fall off of its edge

edit on 28-1-2014 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

yeah well, when you think of it like that, it is clearly being rhetorical...and has a deeper meaning than one taken so literal to the actual shape of the earth. there have been a lot of changes of language/intent of the bible over the years, and you have to take that into consideration when trying to translate the meaning. They do the best they can.

reply to post by Akragon


OP one thing I want to mention is that the light would be there regardless of if Earth were there or not, we just happen to be in the path of the photons.

I get what you're saying and I could add a lot more to this post but I'll be exiting this thread since certain people here seem to (think they) have superior intelligence that requires belittling other posters instead of intelligent debate.

Not this argument again...and again....and again

You dont believe, congratulations and well done.
Its not about what you want to believe, you have every right to disbelieve and I encourage your free will.

But why not search this topic out here, its been done to death

I choose creation, at this stage the young earth creation. How young I am not sure.
You question how can light travel so far in such a short time.
My question is what is light and how did it evolve, how did energy just become

Anyway according to the word of God (and another website)

"Seven books of the Bible reference this event starting from about 1000 BC in the book of Psalms, to about 518 BC in the book of Zechariah (a span of almost 500 years). This "stretching" of the universe was done during the creation week described in Genesis. Dr. Russell Humphreys suggests in his book Starlight and Time that it may have given the universe an older look the farther you move away from Earth into the outermost reaches of the universe. From Earth's perspective, the universe would be about 6,000 - 10,000 years old. However, in the outermost reaches of the universe, this rapid expansion may have given those galaxies the appearance of being billions of years old, even though they aged that much in what is most likely less than 24 hours."
creationists.org...



I choose creation, am truly sorry if it causes you angst and hurts your brain, but I do

Little research and you can see somebody elses point of view

kx12x
reply to post by Akragon

 

OP one thing I want to mention is that the light would be there regardless of if Earth were there or not, we just happen to be in the path of the photons.

I get what you're saying and I could add a lot more to this post but I'll be exiting this thread since certain people here seem to (think they) have superior intelligence that requires belittling other posters instead of intelligent debate.

at some point in time you have to come to expect this sort of thing

reply to post by kx12x


That's what moderators are for my friend...

Don't let other people who don't how to behave on the forum ruin your chance to speak your mind...

Be brave... stand strong

and don't feed the trolls

borntowatch
Not this argument again...and again....and again

You dont believe, congratulations and well done.
Its not about what you want to believe, you have every right to disbelieve and I encourage your free will.

But why not search this topic out here, its been done to death

I choose creation, at this stage the young earth creation. How young I am not sure.
You question how can light travel so far in such a short time.
My question is what is light and how did it evolve, how did energy just become

Anyway according to the word of God (and another website)

"Seven books of the Bible reference this event starting from about 1000 BC in the book of Psalms, to about 518 BC in the book of Zechariah (a span of almost 500 years). This "stretching" of the universe was done during the creation week described in Genesis. Dr. Russell Humphreys suggests in his book Starlight and Time that it may have given the universe an older look the farther you move away from Earth into the outermost reaches of the universe. From Earth's perspective, the universe would be about 6,000 - 10,000 years old. However, in the outermost reaches of the universe, this rapid expansion may have given those galaxies the appearance of being billions of years old, even though they aged that much in what is most likely less than 24 hours."
creationists.org...



I choose creation, am truly sorry if it causes you angst and hurts your brain, but I do

Little research and you can see somebody elses point of view

LMAO!!

It doesn't hurt my brain... but im surprised it doesn't hurt yours honestly...

I base my life around something called "logic"... something people that believe the book is "infallible" do not understand...

Believe whatever makes you happy my friend... matters not to me

And by the way, as I've told you numerous times in the past.... I don't "disbelieve"... I KNOW God exists...

Im just not blind to obvious flaws

Akragon

borntowatch
Not this argument again...and again....and again

You dont believe, congratulations and well done.
Its not about what you want to believe, you have every right to disbelieve and I encourage your free will.

But why not search this topic out here, its been done to death

I choose creation, at this stage the young earth creation. How young I am not sure.
You question how can light travel so far in such a short time.
My question is what is light and how did it evolve, how did energy just become

Anyway according to the word of God (and another website)

"Seven books of the Bible reference this event starting from about 1000 BC in the book of Psalms, to about 518 BC in the book of Zechariah (a span of almost 500 years). This "stretching" of the universe was done during the creation week described in Genesis. Dr. Russell Humphreys suggests in his book Starlight and Time that it may have given the universe an older look the farther you move away from Earth into the outermost reaches of the universe. From Earth's perspective, the universe would be about 6,000 - 10,000 years old. However, in the outermost reaches of the universe, this rapid expansion may have given those galaxies the appearance of being billions of years old, even though they aged that much in what is most likely less than 24 hours."
creationists.org...



I choose creation, am truly sorry if it causes you angst and hurts your brain, but I do

Little research and you can see somebody elses point of view

LMAO!!

It doesn't hurt my brain... but im surprised it doesn't hurt yours honestly...

I base my life around something called "logic"... something people that believe the book is "infallible" do not understand...

Believe whatever makes you happy my friend... matters not to me

And by the way, as I've told you numerous times in the past.... I don't "disbelieve"... I KNOW God exists...

Im just not blind to obvious flaws

take me to your leader ^.^;
just wanna see what you have to say on God, if you don't mind?
You got a thread?

i'd like to get back to it at some point, I'm out for now though.

reply to post by Jarring


I don't have a thread that specifically outlines my view of God...

That's just a way to attract trolls and critics of all sorts...

As I've said if you want to know whats in my head when it comes to God... Goto my threads... and sort through the relgion & theology and the Philosophy & metaphysics sections...

You'll get an idea...

Heres a good place to start

The Things Hidden in Silence

Akragon

UxoriousMagnus

Akragon

Pistoche
You're using science to prove science. Young Earth proponents wouldn't have none of that.

"It's all a mainstream conspiracy, dontcha know?"

Technically im using science to disprove a book written millennia ago... the same book that states the world is flat in some spots

Yes it does say that.... it compares the earth to a seal.. which is a small circular FLAT object

where does the Bible say the earth is flat?...or compares it to this "seal" you speak of?

edit on 28-1-2014 by UxoriousMagnus because: (no reason given)

Job 38
Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,
13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.

Im sure you'll say im taking it out of context... but it clearly says

1. the earth has "edges"

2. the earth takes "shape" as clay under a seal... meaning its flat

Clay was pressed flat under a "seal" to get the shape or impression of whatever is on the seal...

You have an agenda to prove the bible wrong, prove creation wrong. Would that be a reasonable assumption?

I am sure you are taking it out of context because of your agenda

Good luck with that but greater minds have pondered these questions for an age.
You just copy and paste others material to make yourself...... Maybe not literally but these are not your ideas
So I wont waste my time

another cut and paste and link

"Bible does not teach a flat earth

As for Job 38 - look at the context:

Job 38:13 that it might take hold of the skirts of the earth, and the wicked be shaken out of it?
Job 38:14 It is changed like clay under the seal, and its features stand out like a garment.
Job 38:15 From the wicked their light is withheld, and their uplifted arm is broken. ESV

Next look at the book of Revelation 20:11-13 and read what Isa 65:17 as these explain the comments in Job 38:14

Also Note Revelation 5:1,2,5,9 and Rev 6:1, 2 concerning seals...'' B. W. » Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:17 am
-

reply to post by borntowatch

You have an agenda to prove the bible wrong, prove creation wrong. Would that be a reasonable assumption?

No that's just an assumption... and not even a reasonable one...

I have no agenda, the bible proves itself wrong... I have no need to accomplish what it already does quite well...

Good luck with that but greater minds have pondered these questions for an age.
You just copy and paste others material to make yourself...... Maybe not literally but these are not your ideas

I use my own ideas thank you... and yes im sure others have had the same ideas...

thanks for the insult though... keeping to your usual standards I see

So I wont waste my time

Good plan...

Akragon
reply to post by borntowatch

 

You have an agenda to prove the bible wrong, prove creation wrong. Would that be a reasonable assumption?

No that's just an assumption... and not even a reasonable one...

I have no agenda, the bible proves itself wrong... I have no need to accomplish what it already does quite well...

Good luck with that but greater minds have pondered these questions for an age.
You just copy and paste others material to make yourself...... Maybe not literally but these are not your ideas

I use my own ideas thank you... and yes im sure others have had the same ideas...

thanks for the insult though... keeping to your usual standards I see

So I wont waste my time

Good plan...

Others on this site in this very forum, have pondered the same question, guess you just missed it, I am sure

Anyway my replies were not solely for your benefit, for other believers who are not as secure in their faith or those with no time to study the truth.

At a glance your statements ring true, after studying Gods word those statements turn to the steam from a kettle

Akragon

UxoriousMagnus

Akragon

Pistoche
You're using science to prove science. Young Earth proponents wouldn't have none of that.

"It's all a mainstream conspiracy, dontcha know?"

Technically im using science to disprove a book written millennia ago... the same book that states the world is flat in some spots

Yes it does say that.... it compares the earth to a seal.. which is a small circular FLAT object

where does the Bible say the earth is flat?...or compares it to this "seal" you speak of?

edit on 28-1-2014 by UxoriousMagnus because: (no reason given)

Job 38
Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,
13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.

Im sure you'll say im taking it out of context... but it clearly says

1. the earth has "edges"

2. the earth takes "shape" as clay under a seal... meaning its flat

Clay was pressed flat under a "seal" to get the shape or impression of whatever is on the seal...

it is pretty obvious that he was talking about the sunrise coming up over what we call the horizon in that verse but whatever.

as for the shape under a seal....you mentioned that this was to put the impression of the seal into the clay....right? Smashing it under the deal isn't to make it flat per se but to leave an impression....kind of like this:

reply to post by borntowatch

At a glance your statements ring true, after studying Gods word those statements turn to the steam from a kettle

IF that is the case... Please feel free to debunk said debunking...

I asked a question... "does this debunk young earth"... I can't prove it does... im certainly not a mathematician or a physicist...

Science says the universe is Millions and MILLIONS of years old... and backs it with mathematical equasions/physics that make my brain fart out and hide...

You say the bible says otherwise... Prove the bible is correct...

And "because the bible says so" is NOT a valid answer to anything... period

the stage is yours

UxoriousMagnus

Akragon

UxoriousMagnus

Akragon

Pistoche
You're using science to prove science. Young Earth proponents wouldn't have none of that.

"It's all a mainstream conspiracy, dontcha know?"

Technically im using science to disprove a book written millennia ago... the same book that states the world is flat in some spots

Yes it does say that.... it compares the earth to a seal.. which is a small circular FLAT object

where does the Bible say the earth is flat?...or compares it to this "seal" you speak of?

edit on 28-1-2014 by UxoriousMagnus because: (no reason given)

Job 38
Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,
13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.

Im sure you'll say im taking it out of context... but it clearly says

1. the earth has "edges"

2. the earth takes "shape" as clay under a seal... meaning its flat

Clay was pressed flat under a "seal" to get the shape or impression of whatever is on the seal...

it is pretty obvious that he was talking about the sunrise coming up over what we call the horizon in that verse but whatever.

as for the shape under a seal....you mentioned that this was to put the impression of the seal into the clay....right? Smashing it under the deal isn't to make it flat per se but to leave an impression....kind of like this:

Ok but this is not the point of the thread... I even said that the bible also says the earth is round...

Would it make you happy if I just edited that post so we can focus on the topic at hand?

Edit: scratch that its too late

Just forget that post...