Conservative Ideas cannot sustain a Poor majority.

What if everyone had higher education, high IQ's, and the desire to work hard and succeed. Then who be the burger flippers?

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical


The same people because there isnt room for everyone in the economy thats what they fail to understand.

Lol, OF COURSE "Conservative" ideas make people who leech off the system, UNCOMFORTABLE. It goes without saying. "They'z a bunch of haterz. I gotz my Obama phone, welfare, and foodstamps at THEIR expense. Yo, I got'z it made! Obama 2016, ya'll!!!"

Don't even waste your time on this ATS....OP hasn't even responded to his or hers own thread! I see a one off Troll in the making!

onequestion
reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

 

The same people because there isnt room for everyone in the economy thats what they fail to understand.

lol

What you fail to understand is that there have always been people with little drive and ambition and there always will.

While Utopia is an awesome vision and we, indeed, should work towards it as a goal, it is one that will probably never be achieved as long as there are takers on both sides of the economic teeter totter. It will certainly not be achieved in yours or my lifetime.

There will always be people who will not have the intelligence, drive and ambition to succeed. There are 3-4% of the population that are unemployable. How many are marginally unemployable? Given human nature and human limitations and diversity, there will always be a lower class. To think otherwise enters the realm of fantasy.

sligtlyskeptical
What if everyone had higher education, high IQ's, and the desire to work hard and succeed. Then who be the burger flippers?

Perhaps the burger flipper would be high school kids, as once was the case. Once upon a time fast food employees were virtually all teenagers.

Your point is ludicrous at best, given that the above condition will never exist.

In Kuwait, where the oil wealth is shared with it"s citizens, the menial labor is performed by immigrants.

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical


Burger flipping then goes back to what it should be - a base, beginner job for our high school kids to have when they need to start learning basic job skills like how to show up on time, how to bust your butt on the job, etc., they become the place for stay-at-home moms who need some part-time work while their kids are in school, they become the place for the mentally impaired who can do this but aren't equipped for anything else, they become the place for retirees who want to supplement their retirement income and who aren't quite ready to do nothing, they become the place for new immigrants who need some income while they learn the language and other skills, they become a job for people who made poor decisions or fell on hardship and need something to do while they get back on their feet ...

There are plenty of places for those types of jobs to draw workers without anyone needing them as a career.

reply to post by onequestion


That's only true if you operate from the idea that the economy is a fixed pie that never changes size. It's not. It grows and contracts all the time. Right now, we're stuck in a time of either stagnation or stagnation and shrinking.

At the moment, the pie is too small for all of us, but if the economy were allowed and encouraged to grow, there would be room for a lot more people in it again. We know at one time that it was big enough that only about 5%+ of people were not participating in it. That's a much bigger pie than what we have now where somewhere between 7 and 20% of us are not participating in it or not participating in it the degree that we would like.

reply to post by Xeven


I think you totally misunderstand the purpose of conservatism. It's not there to prop people up but more so for people to be self reliant. My favorite proverb is "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a night. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for a life time."

reply to post by Bearack

I think you totally misunderstand the purpose of conservatism. It's not there to prop people up but more so for people to be self reliant. My favorite proverb is "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a night. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for a life time."

Conservatism also is not unlimited greed at the behest of everyone else who "can't" figure it out either. The idea of unlimited growth as a game like monopoly while everyone else around you is starving and dying is a disease. I love success and i want you to be successful but not at my expense.

Conservatism is limited government and the free market.

What do we do when all of the nations wealth is consolidated into 1 medium of exchange? Is that still capitalism?

reply to post by ketsuko


I agree. One of our biggest problems is that our money is debt and that we are off the gold standard. Second is taxes.

Taxes have never and will never solve a problem, what we need is true capitalism with limited government and we need to utilize the internet as a medium for us to decide what and what not to put our money into.

Sure we need black budget but lets decide together weather or not were going to fund them based on the cause and affect that we observe. If we want to stop funding wars then lets decide as a direct democracy weather or not we continue to use our tax dollars for it.

Then lets rely on the ideas of the republic and capitalism to manage our economy and judicial system.

Bearack
reply to post by Xeven

 

I think you totally misunderstand the purpose of conservatism. It's not there to prop people up but more so for people to be self reliant. My favorite proverb is "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a night. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for a life time."

Amen! You have hit the gist of conservatism on the head.

Conservatives give more to charities than liberals, so it's not like they have no heart. They just believe that providing incentives to be productive is much better than providing incentives to be non-productive. Just look at the "war on poverty" that proves that point.

sine.nomine
Conservative ideas are what this nation was founded on.

I'd bet the 1776 British would have called the Founding Fathers liberal.

onequestion
Taxes have never and will never solve a problem, what we need is true capitalism with limited government...

Good luck getting your roads fixed or getting an ambulance, fire truck, or Police officer in an emergency then.

onequestion
reply to post by Bearack

 

I think you totally misunderstand the purpose of conservatism. It's not there to prop people up but more so for people to be self reliant. My favorite proverb is "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a night. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for a life time."

Conservatism also is not unlimited greed at the behest of everyone else who "can't" figure it out either. The idea of unlimited growth as a game like monopoly while everyone else around you is starving and dying is a disease. I love success and i want you to be successful but not at my expense.

Conservatism is limited government and the free market.

What do we do when all of the nations wealth is consolidated into 1 medium of exchange? Is that still capitalism?

The problem with your overdramatization (starving and dying) is that is not the case, nor is it the case that most conservatives are visited with unlimited greed. Ask your liberal buddy, Nancy Pelosi, why she doesnt contribute a significant amount of her income to the poor if she actually believes what she preaches. No...she hires accountants to cut her taxes to the bare minimum and also manages to get legislation passed that excludes some of her investments from taxation. But oh, boy, she is a liberal and is all for the little person! (sarcasm)

Yes, conservatism is limited govt and free market. Neither of which exist now. Conservatism is also, as another put it previously, self reliance. Teach a man to fish....whereas the liberal approach would be to take from the fisherman and give to the non fisherman a fish a day...or 2, or 3 or 10...whatever the govt deems is their right to do. Where does it end?

Obviously the liberal approach is not, has not, and will not work. Just look at the last 50 years or so since Johnson launched the "war on poverty" which has done nothing except freeze a growing segment of our society into poverty and providing incentives to keep them there. FAIL on a massive level.

Whether all the world's wealth is consolidated in one or many different currencies is immaterial and has nothing to do with capitalism. Does capitalism exist in NY as well as Kentucky where both use one medium of exchange? Irrelevant.

Unlimited greed also has nothing to do with conservatism. Unlimited greed is more an individual thing. Look at Nancy Pelosi and John Kerry. Look at the top 10 richest liberals in congress...at least 6 of them are liberals.

Your perception (or your desire to reach into the grab bag that exists within our federal govt) that conservatism = unlimited greed is disingenuous at best. Dishonest at worst.

Please explain how our current system of hand-outs with little or no incentive to better oneself is productive, in the least?

Are you truly going to tell me that if we paid unlimited unemployment benefits that people would have much of an incentive to find a job? Some would, no doubt, not be satisfied with the reduced income and would do whatever it took to get a job that paid better, but there would also be (there is) a significant number of people that would just sit back and collect the checks indefinitely. I believe everyone and their grandma understands the truth of that, if not the magnitude.

onequestion
reply to post by ketsuko

 

I agree. One of our biggest problems is that our money is debt and that we are off the gold standard. Second is taxes.

Taxes have never and will never solve a problem, what we need is true capitalism with limited government and we need to utilize the internet as a medium for us to decide what and what not to put our money into.

Sure we need black budget but lets decide together weather or not were going to fund them based on the cause and affect that we observe. If we want to stop funding wars then lets decide as a direct democracy weather or not we continue to use our tax dollars for it.

Then lets rely on the ideas of the republic and capitalism to manage our economy and judicial system.

I totally agree with this! Kudos for your presentation here.

I just wish we could make it happen.....

CryHavoc

sine.nomine
Conservative ideas are what this nation was founded on.

I'd bet the 1776 British would have called the Founding Fathers liberal.

onequestion
Taxes have never and will never solve a problem, what we need is true capitalism with limited government...

Good luck getting your roads fixed or getting an ambulance, fire truck, or Police officer in an emergency then.

edit on 28-1-2014 by CryHavoc because: (no reason given)

I dont think she meant any taxes. I believe (IMO) that what was meant was the ridiculous level of taxation we see today. I believe what was referred to was the increase in taxation during a poor economy. Increasing taxation during a downturn in the economy is the most stupid, ignorant response I can possibly think of.

I can only equate it with the individual who, when faced with reduced hours / income due to a downturn in business responds by going out and buying luxury items resulting in nothing more than an increase in debt. Stupid, stupid stupid stupid.

I find your response to be facile and argumentative. I do not know of anyone (except anarchists) who would advocate doing away with police and fire dept. I might also add that your federal taxes do not pay for police, fire dept etc.

The federal govt's responsibilities should be only what the constitution defines it as. If we want to expand their role into areas of education, welfare etc etc then it should be done the right way: constitutional amendment....

reply to post by bbracken677


You really think that 5+ billion people have no drive and ambition?

Give me a break.

Too your second response, its not that we dont agree mostly its just minor points that probably dont really matter. Even if we dont agree on certain points we can still agree on the same solution. Interesting isnt it?

Kromlech
Lol, OF COURSE "Conservative" ideas make people who leech off the system, UNCOMFORTABLE. It goes without saying. "They'z a bunch of haterz. I gotz my Obama phone, welfare, and foodstamps at THEIR expense. Yo, I got'z it made! Obama 2016, ya'll!!!"

lol I love your response, btw.

Just for clarity sake: it's not called welfare anymore. It is called SSI. Food stamps dont exist anymore...they are called SNAP.

There...dont you feel better knowing that welfare and food stamps have been eliminated? I know I do... ROFL

bbracken677
I find your response to be facile and argumentative. I do not know of anyone (except anarchists) who would advocate doing away with police and fire dept. I might also add that your federal taxes do not pay for police, fire dept etc.

If I can read what you are saying as Anarchy, and that's not what you meant, then you are saying it wrong. And you wonder why people aren't listening.

Some local jurisdictions get subsidies from the Federal government, by the way.

onequestion
reply to post by bbracken677

 

You really think that 5+ billion people have no drive and ambition?

LOL where did that come from? Perhaps you should reread what I wrote...whatever it was. Hell no I do not believe that. Please let me know what I said that lead to that interpretation, cause that is certainly not what I meant.

Give me a break

Too your second response, its not that we dont agree mostly its just minor points that probably dont really matter. Even if we dont agree on certain points we can still agree on the same solution. Interesting isnt it?

edit on 20141America/ChicagoquAmerica/Chicago3331552014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)