Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

Autograf
Time for a new thread that's not half someone's stream of consciousness, one quarter ass-kissing the OP and one quarter vaguely on topic?

While I certainly empathize with the stream of consciousness aspect (rightly or wrongly) the rest of your statement is pretty petty. You should go create some content then. Jus' sayin'.

An engineer observing a computer would want to look at the back and open up the boxes. He would want to take a probe and examine the different parts of the computer. But there is another way of looking at it; the way of the programmer, who wants to sit in front of the computer and analyze what it does, not how it does it.

That's my approach. I want to ask it questions and see what answers I get. I want to interact with it as an information entity.

My point is that you can't be sure until you do something. Then you realize that what you were seeing, the thing that looked absurd and incongruous, was really a marker for a boundary that was invisible to everybody else until you discovered it because you looked for a pattern. I think that's exactly what we have to do with UFOs. We have to do something that will cause them to react. And I don't mean building landing strips in the desert and waiting out there to welcome the space brothers

The thing about Vallee is that he never seems to offer any speculation or extrapolation on WHY we are being virtually invaded by this Alien Control system.

Why is he being so obtusely scientific?

Of course I haven’t read all of his perspective but what I have read is very dense. No speculative ideas about WHY.

He can’t say it is unscientific because in astro-physics they have an honorable aspect to it called theoretical physics, Einstein’s milieu in fact.

So what’s his problem, why be so “scientific” how about venturing out and giving a hypothesis along the lines of WHY.

Certainly there is data that can incline to an opinion.
I will proceed to analyze Vallee's analogy above I commented on earlier in this thread.

“Suppose you're walking through the desert and you see a stone that looks as though it was painted white. A thousand yards later you see another stone of similar appearance. You stop and consider the matter. Either you can forget it or - if you're like me - you can pick up the stone and move it a few feet. If suddenly a bearded character steps out from behind a rock and demands to know why you moved his marker, then you know you've found a control system.”

It’s clear the stone painted white represents alien intrusion in the experience of humans such as abductions and sights of UFOs within time and space of the experiential reality of human beings on this planet.

I pointed out earlier that this statement of Vallee's is representative of the fact that the gov intervened in the alien control system and messed with their white painted stones( abductions and UFO sightings) and probably the visitors in no uncertain terms told them to “ mind their GD business!

AFTERWARDS WE HAVE MULTIPLE TOP MILITARY AND INTELLIGENCE SPECIALISTS DECLARING POSITIVELY THAT THE ALIEN PHENOMENON IS A FACT!

From Admiral Hillencoetter, the first head of the CIA and Phillip Corso to General MacArthur and many others, men with impeccable reputations tell us this fact.
MacArthur is quoted to have said in 1955 to the NY Times as saying the nations of the Earth should unite in common cause against a possible attack by alien forces.

Also he said according to Peter Lavenda in 1962, “We deal now with the ultimate conflict between a united human race and the sinister forces of some other planetary galaxy:

THEN THE GOV STOPS INVESTIGATING THIS PHENOMENON ALL OF A SUDDEN.

Understand that the “control system" Vallee was referring to is of ALIEN ORIGIN not the Gov.

THIS IS NOT A GOVERNMENT PHENOMENON!

Their control system is and has always been intact AND Vallee WAS NOT AT ALL REFERRING TO THAT, imo.

The GUT

Autograf
Time for a new thread that's not half someone's stream of consciousness, one quarter ass-kissing the OP and one quarter vaguely on topic?

While I certainly empathize with the stream of consciousness aspect (rightly or wrongly) the rest of your statement is pretty petty. You should go create some content then. Jus' sayin'.

edit on 8-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

Petty? Accurate. And now we're perpetuating the cancer even further. Whoops.

Autograf
Petty? Accurate.

Accurate? You mean like the Seattle "UFO"? Whoops indeed.

Seattle UFO 2012-12-30

And now we're perpetuating the cancer even further. Whoops.

Hey, you started it, I just lobbed it back.

reply to post by Willtell

Lot of good stuff there, Will. Some of it's wrong, though, as far as what Vallee writes about. I'll try and get back to that aspect in a bit.

EDIT: I'm in the process of rereading Vallee's works now and, rest assured, I have some bones to pick with him and will, Will. Wilco.

It is about time for a new thread, however. I'm thinking about Bigelow/Aerospace/NIDS and delving as deep as possible. I'm finding what I think are some interesting scraps that seem to be falling through the cracks. Admittedly it'a tough nut, so I dunno. Anyone with ideas on that topic please pm.

The thing about Vallee is that he never seems to offer any speculation or extrapolation on WHY we are being virtually invaded by this Alien Control system.

Why is he being so obtusely scientific?

Of course I haven’t read all of his perspective but what I have read is very dense. No speculative ideas about WHY.

reply to post by Willtell


Vallee knows that you have to get a firm handle on "What" before you can analyze "Why".
He is cognizant that the "Control System" is a complex, intertwined relationship with governments and the UFO phenomena itself. He knows that if he approached his research from that perspective, from the top down, he would hit all sorts of disinformation,dead ends and outright road blocks.

By studying purely the effect of the phenomena, the speculations of "Why" and "How" become much more scientifically grounded.
Still, to this day, we really do not have an idea of "What" we are actually looking at. It is that wierd.

reply to post by The GUT


Whatever direction you choose to head off into, I am more than willing to begin peering in in my own fashion and share what I turn up along with whatever meager commentary comes to mind.

The thing is, it always seems to come around to the point where we find ourselves now... no matter where we start in on these topics.

Or so it seems to me, maybe I'm wrong with that observation.

reply to post by jadedANDcynical

Haha...I had already planned to utilize your most-excellent research skills. To tell the truth: That's the main reason I decided to give it a go, because I was pretty sure you would help. Thank You.

I'm really starting to believe SOME progress can be made--maybe not much--and I am finding a little bit more than I thought might be out there. Like I said before, though, that particular subject is, I know, shrouded in some pretty tight secrecy. Which in itself might be a clue as to the nature of the beast.

I expect it to be a controversial and probably pretty heated thread. Unlike this one heheh.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


my famous physicist friend is writing a book about the physics
of spirituality. I had a hour call with him yesterday. It was
very interesting that he and I found ourselves agreeing about
the general nature of cosmology even though we always disagree
about the nature of 'god'. I'm happy to say, that I'd fully agree
with your quote, that we are discussing 'spirit-matter' and that
there is no real separation of the two.. that one set of laws
governs both and that both are aspects of the one same thing.

Kevin

reply to post by The GUT


I'd be very grateful if you did this thread.. I'm quite interested in the topic.
And a big bonus for you, is that I feel little desire to comment about things
in that topic unless I'm asked by someone. The reason being, is that all
the 'twaddle' I've expressed in this thread is the same response as I'd
say for that thread.. so no use to repeat myself.

I know very little about the history and references of that place.. so I'd
have nothing to contribute. Now.. perhaps in the future I might have
something 'real world' to contribute, as I may be forming contacts
with some of the individuals on the fringe of all of this stuff. But I certainly
don't want to get 'sucked into the aviary' that's for sure.. I'm not selling
out for any reason.

Kevin

reply to post by charlyv

He knows that if he approached his research from that perspective, from the top down, he would hit all sorts of disinformation,dead ends and outright road blocks.

Thank you for this most keen point, it's a really good one, to say the least. I have seen Ufological gatekeepers (as I call them) nearly hold sacred, their top-down policy. Stupid bastards. I -HATE- them for that. There, I feel better.

Hey GUT, you sounded really good on the ATS show. If they don't have you back, they are being as dumb as mainstream ufoology.

reply to post by charlyv


I don’t agree, I believe there is enough raw data to formulate a working hypothesis on a WHY

I’m reading Vallee Book confrontations, his endeavor to study UFOs
Well see how his vaunted scientific pedigree in “research” comes out...I don’t expect much.


In the end it may be that the Military, Intelligence, Industrial complex( Vallee's boss) which has formulated our destruction DON’T WANT TO DEAL WITH THE WHY!

That self which formulated nuclear bombs and weapons of mass murder and the spoiling of the environment and the enslavement of a great part of humanity never ever want to study the disease in them, that did that and don’t know how to stop it or don’t want to stop it.


Look at yourself, they are afraid to do that because then they would have to change

Ok, here's what I'm thinking, and it goes along with a few posts I've seen already within this thread.

Our military spook psi/scientist type have found that these phenomena are a method of directing humanity on several levels. The research presented in Vallee's paper about the 6 Layer Model shows that they have broken down this control system and are able to emulate it with systems of their own.

When these things are taken in to consideration with what seems to be the direction our 'leaders' are taking our civilization, and keeping in mind that these are the same people directing the research we have been discussing in this thread, think about all of the different pressures that are being applied to us as a species.

Going to re-quote this as it bears repeating and thinking about in the context of what I'm conveying here:

The 6 Levels of UAP Analysis

Let us consider the characteristics of the sightings that are not explained by trivial natural causes. We can recognize 6 major “layers” in terms of our perceptions of these characteristics, as they can be extracted from earlier works about UAP phenomenology (Vallee, 1975a, 1975b) or from the current NIDS database.

Layer I: First of all is the physical layer, evident in most witness accounts describing an object that:

▪ occupies a position in space, consistent with geometry
▪ moves as time passes
▪ interacts with the environment through thermal effects
▪ exhibits light absorption and emission from which power output estimates can be derived
▪ produces turbulence
▪ when landed, leaves indentations and burns from which mass and energy figures can be derived
▪ gives rise to photographic images
▪ leaves material residue consistent with Earth chemistry
▪ gives rise to electric, magnetic and gravitational disturbances

Thus UAP -- in a basic physical sense -- are consistent with a technology centered on a craft that appears to be using a revolutionary propulsion system. It is the existence of this layer that has led mainstream ufologists to claim that UFOs and elated phenomena were due to extraterrestrial machines.

Layer II: For lack of an adequate term, we will call the second layer anti-physical. The variables are the same as those in the previous category, but they form patterns that conflict with those predicted by modern physics. Objects are described as physical and material but they are also described as:

▪ sinking into the ground
▪ shrinking in size, growing larger, or changing shape on the spot
▪ becoming fuzzy and transparent on the spot dividing into 2-or-more objects, several of them merging into one object at slow speed
▪ disappearing at one point and appearing elsewhere instantaneously
▪ remaining observable visually while not detected by radar
▪ producing missing time or time dilatation
▪ producing topological inversion or space dilatation (object was estimated to be of small exterior size/volume, but witness(s) saw a huge interior many times the exterior size)
▪ appearing as balls of colored, intensely bright light under intelligent control

It is the presence of such descriptions that leads most academic scientists to reject the phenomenon as the product of hallucinations or hoaxes.

Layer III: The third layer has to do with the psychology of the witnesses and the social conditions that surround them. Human observers tend to see UAP while in their normal environment and in normal social groupings. They perceive the objects as non-conventional, but they try to explain them away as common occurrences until faced with the inescapable conclusion that the object is truly unknown.

Layer IV: Physiological reactions are another significant level of information. The phenomenon is reported to cause effects perceived by humans as:

▪ sounds (beeping, buzzing, humming, sharp/piercing whistling, swooshing/air rushing, loud/deafening roaring, sound of a storm, etc.)
▪ vibrations
▪ burns
▪ partial paralysis (inability to move muscles)
▪ extreme heat or cold sensation
▪ odors (powerful, sweet or strange fragrance, rotten eggs, sulphurous, pungent, musky, etc.)
▪ metallic taste
▪ pricklings
▪ temporary blindness when directly exposed to the objects’ light
▪ nausea
▪ bloody nose and/or ears; severe headache
▪ difficulty in breathing
▪ loss of volition
▪ severe drowsiness in the days following a close encounter

Layer V: The fifth category of effects can only be labeled psychic because it involves a class of phenomena commonly found in the literature of parapsychology, such as:

▪ impressions of communication without a direct sensory channel
▪ poltergeist phenomena: motions and sounds without a specific cause, outside the observed presence of a UAP
▪ levitation of the witness or of objects and animals in the vicinity
▪ maneuvers of a UAP appearing to anticipate the witness’ thoughts
▪ premonitory dreams or visions
▪ personality changes promoting unusual abilities in the witness
▪ healing

Layer VI: The sixth and last category could be called cultural. It is concerned with society’s reactions to the reports, the way in which secondary effects (hoaxes, fiction, and science-fiction imagery, scientific theories, cover-up or exposure, media censorship or publicity, sensationalism, etc.) become generated, and the attitude of members of a given culture towards the concepts that UAP observations appear to challenge.

In the United States, the greatest impact of the phenomenon has been on general acceptance of the idea of life in space and a more limited -- but potentially very significant -- change in the popular concept of non-human intelligence. In earlier cultures such as medieval Europe or Portugal in the early years of the 20th Century, the cultural context of anomalous observations was strongly colored by religious beliefs.

Incommensurability, Orthodoxy, and the Physics of High Strangeness:
A 6-layer Model for Anomalous Phenomena
Jacques F. Vallee and Eric W. Davis
National Institute for Discovery Science
Las Vegas, Nevada


Our governments are messing about with and have versions of all of these various layers of the control systems of our planetary systems.

Aren't they all pushed to the extremes of their tolerances?

Financial collapse is merely a few clicks of a muse away.

Culture is being polarized so much as is evidenced by the topic of racism, for example. Take any extremely charged subject, abortion, patriotism, anything that people feel very passionately about, and someone 'up top' can and will go in and stir it up for purposes unknown.

In each and every subsection of the above-referenced layers, every component system is stressed to it's limits or that state is quickly approaching.

What if our PTB are trying to force a reaction from the native control system because they think that they've a means to usurp the 'original programming' as it were?

I can easily imagine that those people have the hubris to attempt something of this magnitude.

reply to post by jadedANDcynical

What if our PTB are trying to force a reaction from the native control system

And the very best way to do that, is all things nuclear. Military silos and storage places, nuclear power plants, and the biggee, nuclear war, (WWIII) and it seems that certain officials in my US Government, have been pushing and keep pushing, in that direction, I mean they seem hell bent for it. Only one matter which has not (that I am aware of) drawn the native control system's attention is the Fukushima disaster, but like I said, that I'm aware of.

Dr.Vallee said it best himself.

Clark: Are you suggesting that the investigator should attempt to experience the phenomenon himself?

Vallee: Yes, I think that's sound scientific practice.

Clark: But isn't that rather dangerous - in the sense that there's a real risk the investigator, even if he is emotionally stable and intellectually sophisticated, might be overwhelmed by the experiences involved?

Vallee: Yes, there are dangers. Witness what happened to Morris Jessup or to Jim McDonald. But I think that now we're more aware of what the dangers are. Once you realize the phenomenon may be deliberately misleading, then you can use certain safeguards. I'm not saying that safeguards are always going to work. There is an element of danger you really can't avoid. There's no way to do that kind of study just by reading books.

It's a little bit like the study of volcanoes. You can learn a lot about them by watching them from a distance but you certainly learn a lot more when you can be right there - even if it's somewhat risky.
www.ufoevidence.org...

Earlier in his interview he advocates the witness being the investigators first concern. In this thread many of the Dr.'s thoughts have been reproduced, but this ALWAYS gets swept under the carpet. It may not be the direction TG prefers however it was the direction Dr.Vallee advocates for.

Caver78
Earlier in his interview he advocates the witness being the investigators first concern. In this thread many of the Dr.'s thoughts have been reproduced, but this ALWAYS gets swept under the carpet. It may not be the direction TG prefers however it was the direction Dr.Vallee advocates for.

No, I agree that aspect is there. Some of it has been hijacked for different and murkier purposes and it's that aspect that HAS to be gotten out of the way to move forward.

Those who fell for MJ-12, or even worse, SERPO, need to understand the dynamics and misuse of the public perception of the phenomenon or any significant research/understanding will be lost to the mythology of social engineering. At least as far as us, the public, is concerned.

Many of those gubmint spookies who shout, ET!!...seem to really believe in ID. Hrmmm...Maybe THAT"S our first lesson? And we musn't forget, I believe, that those who seek to weaponize and control are closely associated with it all.

reply to post by The GUT

I have been experiencing, in chat forums, and watching the MSM, what an --incredibly-- rocksolid tough nut the ufos-are-ets connection in people's minds is, GUT, it just blows me over sometimes, these people will steamroll over questioning that, as if they are completely deaf, which well, they are, intellectualy speaking. It amazes me. I find it actually to be more solidly mass-ingrained than a religious view.

jadedANDcynical
Our military spook psi/scientist type have found that these phenomena are a method of directing humanity on several levels. The research presented in Vallee's paper about the 6 Layer Model shows that they have broken down this control system and are able to emulate it with systems of their own.

When these things are taken in to consideration with what seems to be the direction our 'leaders' are taking our civilization, and keeping in mind that these are the same people directing the research we have been discussing in this thread, think about all of the different pressures that are being applied to us as a species....Financial collapse is merely a few clicks of a muse away...


What if our PTB are trying to force a reaction from the native control system because they think that they've a means to usurp the 'original programming' as it were?

I can easily imagine that those people have the hubris to attempt something of this magnitude.

Since we are not only only a part of that test bed and, worse, the recepients of whatever plan or pandora's box they open then, yeah, I too think we should be paying very close attention to the men behind the curtain who are (willy-nilly?) pulling the cranks and levers.

Btw, I LOVE to discuss ID:

Survey: How Many Have Switched from Extraterrestrial Hypothesis to Interdimensional?

Now, if only we could determine the ways that Doc Jock's theories have been tested. And I think we have delved into that from both a "purest" view, i.e. the "Skinwalker Ranch was that test" theory to the psyops/social engineering aspects that Vallee also vociferously warns about.

Other than that, we haven't seem to come up with much. But maybe that's a good start.

I found some interesting stuff in my rereading of Vallee's Revelations that are pretty much an exact blueprint for what Kit Green and Puthoff might have been up to with SERPO. It's a hard copy book, so I'll have to find some time to transcribe it today…unless someone has a PDF I can lift the copy from.