An Open Letter to Lovers of the Gun

Bilk22
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

I don't love guns. I don't even own a gun. But I'll be damn sure I retain the right to do so if ever I feel the need!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's interesting that members are reading my post as anti-gun or take away your guns or whatever. I said nothing of the sort - in fact, I made it clear that I really could care less about your choice. I was just saddend and disturbed by this increase in school violence but many readers have misread the post:

1) I'm afraid of guns - where did that come from.
2) I want to take your guns from you. - I don't.
3) I think that guns are the cause of this violence - I think it's a complex problem.

And 4) that I'm just a nut case.

Usually, I find that people that react in such a violent manner to word or actions that question their deeply held 'beliefs', if you will, are defending a weak sense of Self. But then, I could be projecting too.

FyreByrd
Guns are going to save my family from tyranny? I don't have that kind of firepower nor do you. That statment is delusional.

There you go right there! To answer your question? Probably not in most cases concerning tyranny, but people can, and could without a doubt hold out against much more dominate forces if need be. Why bow down so soon?

A GUN, or GUNS could save your family from roaming gangs of mercenary thugs who want to rape, pillage and steal things like water or food from those who have it. Imagine that FB?

Can you ACTUALLY stop and think for just one single minute or two about what you're saying? So you prefer to be un-armed when killers and rapists are heading towards your village, town or home? My god man wake up, I hope you don't have a family. ~$heopleNation

muzzleflash
I Googled FBI homicide statistics:

FBI Expanded Homicide Data Table

2007 - 2008 - 2009 - 2010 - 2011
Total firearms: 10,129 - 9,528 - 9,199 - 8,874 - 8,583

The vast majority of which were handguns.

Are these numbers decreasing or increasing? Can anyone tell?

edit on 24-1-2014 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-1-2014 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

Thanks for the data table, it is very infomative about murder rates. As a side note to this table - deaths by weapons of all types are going done because fewer people survive the incident. The causality rate in war is going done also (at least for USA) because many servive now.

This really doesn't address the point of 'school shootings'. Those are on the rise as easily seen by the articles facts.

I did muddy the waters - by adding my choice, and the reasons thereby, not to keep firearms in my home.

Browsing through the referenced data is interesting, thank you for posting the link.

reply to post by FyreByrd


Its a horrible thing, but its also not the fault of the 100 million or so legal, responsible gun owners out there who have never and will never commit a crime with their firearm. I don't think it makes ethical or practical sense to punish those people by revoking their rights when they're not doing anything wrong. I would point out that total US homicides and the homicide rate are as low as they've been in 40 years, with the decline occurring mainly in the last 20 years. This, in spite of surging gun sales in the same time period.

Ultimately, this is a 'people problem', and the causes of violence are almost always related in some way to either mental illness or poverty. Address those two issues in a meaningful manner, and I suspect you'll see violent crime rates in this country drop even more than they already have over the last 20 years. Ban guns, and you're just slapping a very ineffective bandaid on the real problems, much as DC, Baltimore, Chicago and other gun banning cities have proven. As it turns out, its a lot easier for the politicians to find a scapegoat than it is to address the actual, complex underlying issues that are causing the problems, and unfortunately, there are a lot of misguided, well intentioned people who buy the dump truck load full of bull crap they're shoveling.

FyreByrd

Bilk22
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

I don't love guns. I don't even own a gun. But I'll be damn sure I retain the right to do so if ever I feel the need!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's interesting that members are reading my post as anti-gun or take away your guns or whatever. I said nothing of the sort - in fact, I made it clear that I really could care less about your choice. I was just saddend and disturbed by this increase in school violence but many readers have misread the post:

1) I'm afraid of guns - where did that come from.
2) I want to take your guns from you. - I don't.
3) I think that guns are the cause of this violence - I think it's a complex problem.

And 4) that I'm just a nut case.

Usually, I find that people that react in such a violent manner to word or actions that question their deeply held 'beliefs', if you will, are defending a weak sense of Self. But then, I could be projecting too.

Yeah you're probably projecting. There's nothing in my post that suggests violence.

Why don't you explain what all the words you posted in the OP mean to you, since everyone else seems to have misinterpreted them.

If school shootings are your source of anguish, I'd suggest you do a bit of reading on SSRI drugs and look at the statistics of the numbers of shooters who were on or had recently been on, these drugs. It's easy to blame guns because in our country today, the gun and ammo manufacturers aren't nearly so rich and powerful as Big Pharma. You won't hear anything about the drugging of a whole generation on MSM except how wonderful and positive it is for a teenager to be "able to function" on a chemical cocktail that would down a moose. The silence is due to the fact that most of the media depends on drug money---just like the banksters! The only difference is that the media gets its revenue from the legal drug trade while the banksters launder money for the CIA cartels.
Yes, I love my guns. I'm a little skinny ole granny but I've been handling/shooting guns since I was seven years old. I'm not sure where your statistics on the dangers of guns in the home originates, but every home in our community had guns in evidence when I was growing up. We, as children, knew that the wrath of our Mothers would be rained down should we even think about touching them without permission and supervision. It was the same in our house as our children/grandchildren were growing up. Now perhaps it is true if you live in the urban areas with gang infestations, the homes with guns are less safe but then, so are the homes themselves.
I find it comforting that my neighborhood is an armed society. I suppose we're all Heinlein followers.

SheopleNation

FyreByrd
Guns are going to save my family from tyranny? I don't have that kind of firepower nor do you. That statment is delusional.

There you go right there! To answer your question? Probably not in most cases concerning tyranny, but people can, and could without a doubt hold out against much more dominate forces if need be. Why bow down so soon?

A GUN, or GUNS could save your family from roaming gangs of mercenary thugs who want to rape, pillage and steal things like water or food from those who have it. Imagine that FB?

Can you ACTUALLY stop and think for just one single minute or two about what you're saying? So you prefer to be un-armed when killers and rapists are heading towards your village, town or home? My god man wake up, I hope you don't have a family. ~$heopleNation

Actually, I would rather be killed then become a killer. I don't know if I could hold to that ideal if a child of mine was threatened, I'm being honest here - but that would be my desire.

Killing isn't going to change the world for the better. It teachs that whoever has the most firepower is right and I reject that idea.

As of yet, I've never been in a situation where 'hoards' were raping and pillaging. I don't want to live in that world and it distresses me that so many (evidence the popularity of post-apocolyptic story-telling) people see to be eager for that type of world.

I want to put my energy into making a better world not put it in defending against a possible world. What you focus on is what you get.

I've never been afraid of people. I don't think they are out to hurt me, or take my stuff or kill me. I've lived most of my life in fairly poor neighborhoods. In my whole life I've been 'accosted' once (and by walking away it stopped), my home (actually garage) was burgled once. The most threatened I've ever been was by an LA cop. Why should I be afraid all the time? Stuff happens. I don't want to be afraid and mostly I've never had any cause to be.

I really feel for those who do carry fear around with them all the time - it would make life so hard. I know it does for me - when I fear for loosing a job - it's hell and doesn't help me keep it. So I'm still learning about letting fear go.

diggindirt
If school shootings are your source of anguish, I'd suggest you do a bit of reading on SSRI drugs and look at the statistics of the numbers of shooters who were on or had recently been on, these drugs. It's easy to blame guns because in our country today, the gun and ammo manufacturers aren't nearly so rich and powerful as Big Pharma. You won't hear anything about the drugging of a whole generation on MSM except how wonderful and positive it is for a teenager to be "able to function" on a chemical cocktail that would down a moose. The silence is due to the fact that most of the media depends on drug money---just like the banksters! The only difference is that the media gets its revenue from the legal drug trade while the banksters launder money for the CIA cartels.
Yes, I love my guns. I'm a little skinny ole granny but I've been handling/shooting guns since I was seven years old. I'm not sure where your statistics on the dangers of guns in the home originates, but every home in our community had guns in evidence when I was growing up. We, as children, knew that the wrath of our Mothers would be rained down should we even think about touching them without permission and supervision. It was the same in our house as our children/grandchildren were growing up. Now perhaps it is true if you live in the urban areas with gang infestations, the homes with guns are less safe but then, so are the homes themselves.
I find it comforting that my neighborhood is an armed society. I suppose we're all Heinlein followers.

edit on 24-1-2014 by diggindirt because: correction

Boom. Nailed it.

its all about the mental health system, or rather lack of mental health system.

School shootings, as in what we refer to in the modern sense of the term, began with Columbine. Sure, there were the odd incident here and there.

I worked in mental health during the 90's. In/around 94 you saw, in addition to drugs like Prozac (a known causative factor in some homocidal snaps), we saw drugs like Seroquel and Zyprexa clear testing and enter the market. In short order, patients who were previously maintained in in-patient settings were able to be maintained in outpatient settings. Beds became available as folks who had before needed frequent hospitalizations began to see positive responses to the new medications.

The downsides of this seemingly wonderful occurance:

- the "new drugs" created overall greater effect. But decompensation became a more acute process, with a rapid spiraling out of control. The effect is better, but creates a more catastrophic psychotic break with violent outbursts
- the bed space formerly reserved for the treatment of the mentally ill in our communities was reallocated to housing the criminally insane. We all said for years how they shouldn't have mentally ill in prison, and should get them help. Well, they have. And this is how they did it. By displacing beds for the non criminally insane and filling them with patients paid for by the prison industrial complex

It isn't hard to see where it all fell apart. And that falling apart coincides with the rise in the current school shootings.

The answer isn't gun control. The answer is sane treatment of those among us with mental illness. yes, it is expensive. But consider the costs compared to what we spend in the military. That expense is nothing more than self preservation, and absolutely needs to be enacted.

reply to post by FyreByrd


Oh, sorry. Brute force? No, guess not. At least not from YOU specifically.

Coercion? Yep.

Your ideals are what is driving the Govt in its current actions against the citizens.
Take a look around. There are several states, that are operating under the progressive mindset, where gun owners are being targeted.

So while you have not applied force here, force is being applied by people like you.

FyreByrd
I wanted to share this letter....

Please do not take this as a direct attack against you, but rather as an attack against the utter ridiculousness that has enshrouded our country.

We have all, as Americans, been promised the right to own and to bear arms. This is engrained in my thought patterns.

I do not own a gun.

I do not want a gun.

I want the RIGHT to own one, should I so chose to do so.

There may very well come a day soon that I buy one as an active vote of my say in the current political and social climate we live in. But as of today, I do not own a gun.


As to children getting a hold of guns and using them at schools to heinously kill others in what can only be seen as a "trendy" way of dealing with personal demons or flat out committing suicide...well...I ask...

WHERE ARE THE PARENTS ?


When I was a certain age...my father took my sister and I into his room. He opened his closet. He pulled down the locked gun cases. He showed us the guns. He explained that if we ever wanted to look at them, all we had to do was ask. If we ever wanted to go shooting, all we had to do was ask.

And he also made it perfectly clear in very few words....if we ever screwed with the guns or even the gun cases, he'd kill us.

Those were his words.

It removed all taboo. We never ONCE thought of even going NEAR those guns.


And yet today, you have dumbass parents doing stupid things like not talking to their children. Like leaving he weapons out and obtainable. Like not locking them. Like not making it PERFECTLY DAMNED CLEAR WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES OF MESSING WITH THEM WOULD BE.


Children are children. They make uneducated decisions based off of emotion and perception.

Guns are a tool. There is NOTHING WRONG with a gun. It is wrong the way guns are treated, and used.

bigfatfurrytexan
The answer isn't gun control. The answer is sane treatment of those among us with mental illness. yes, it is expensive. But consider the costs compared to what we spend in the military. That expense is nothing more than self preservation, and absolutely needs to be enacted.

I myself have lived with depression and anxiety, passed down genetically on both sides of the family, throughout my life.

We, as a society, need to remove the taboo. Treat it like any other ailment. And offer help to those that need it.

Help that doesn't include an unhealthy amount of shame or ridicule.


These kids are screaming for help. And yet, I cannot help but begin to believe, nobody has heard them. Not loud enough to actually DO something to help them.

olaru12
I'm a gun owner and fully appreciate the responsibility of owning a killing machine.

What astonishes me is the absolute psychotic, psycho/sexual love of guns. It's almost a defining personality trait for some people; the "gun owner" with it's accompanying political conservative paranoia and fear based mindset.

Get a #%^*) life why don't ya!

edit on 24-1-2014 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

You definately should NEVER own a gun! Trust me you are the type that should stay clear of any weapon.

reply to post by FyreByrd


I apologize.

I deeply apologize

that you don't know the meaning of words.

Tyranny: 1. Oppressive power (every form of tyranny over the mind of man - Thomas Jefferson) esp. oppressive power exerted by government (the tyranny of a police state) 2. a: a government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler; esp : one characteristic of an ancient Greek city-state. b: the office, authority and administration of a tyrant. 3. a rigorous condition imposed by some outside agency or force (living under the tyranny of the clock - Dixon Wecter) 4. A tyrannical act.

If you do not believe that definitions 1, 3 and 4 would not and could not pertain to a home invasion, or the implement of such invasion and its minions if used, then sir I am delusional and I paid and wasted a lot of money learning reading comprehension.

As far as attempting to repel an unconstitutional rape of my abode by tyrannical government forces, yes i will resist.

reply to post by FyreByrd


"I've heard from members that violence is decreasing in the USA. I'm not certain where those statistics are coming from or how they define violence"

It's called www.fbi.gov Check it out sometime. We live in an extremely safe country where the vast majority of violent crime occurs in pockets of inner cities. Odd that no politician ever takes credit for it.

As a thoughtful, intelligent man, I do not base important decisions on an emotional rant. Neither should you unless you're a boy and not a man.

Just a hint for the next time you try to convince us that we're horrible to own guns: try a different approach than posting a letter that accuses me of "loving my guns more than my kids". Not a terribly persuasive argument.

-Nobody loves their guns more than their kids.
-It's only the people that you don't have to worry about that obey gun laws.
-You don't want to know what will happen to this country if we're ever disarmed.

reply to post by puzzlesphere

My question is why do we have companies whos core business is to keep designing and producing implements of death?

I don't know, except, GM, Ford, Toyota, Nissan and the other Car Companies are filling a demand and keeping people Employed!
You do know the Automobile are killers in the wrong hands, right?

Do we really need to keep pumping money and resources into desinging the most effective way to kill people?

Yes, for Design, I like the new 2014 BMW or AUDI models, The new 2014 Corvette is my husbands favorite.
FAST and DEADLY each and Every One again of-course in the Wrong or Untrained Hands or the Mentally Impaired for Any Reason, Alcohol, Drugs or Medication!

I'm all for responssible ownership of anything (have a tank if you're responsible with it!)... but i'm not into mass produced killing implements.

YEAH, Sure You Are
As far as Mass Production goes. Well, get that letter writing or e-mail petition started to get the Major Automobile makers to Stop Production because people that should not be Driving Are and People Get Killed. Accidents Happen, Unfortunately.
You also need to get those companies that brew any form of Alcohol shut down and stop selling their products, remember how well that worked out in the 1920's?
Now, how about Prescription Medications and people who wear Glasses? Maybe we should put a stop to them driving too!

Weapons and Vehicles, both kill in the hands of Criminals or Mentally Unstable or who's Judgment is Impairs for What Ever Reason.

Now you have exactly what they want, the Nanny State.
Stay In Australia, you'll feel safer.

AmenStop

when the constitution was drafted guns were at the top of the military weapons list, they wanted a well armed populous that could match the army if an overthrow of a tyrannical gov was needed. So the general population should actually be able to have any and all weapons that the state has.

Exactly.

muzzleflash
I Googled FBI homicide statistics:

FBI Expanded Homicide Data Table

2007 - 2008 - 2009 - 2010 - 2011
Total firearms: 10,129 - 9,528 - 9,199 - 8,874 - 8,583


The vast majority of which were handguns.

Are these numbers decreasing or increasing? Can anyone tell?

edit on 24-1-2014 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-1-2014 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

So ... the OP-ed in the opening post ... lied.



Thank you for the actual stats MuzzleFlash.


Mike

TrailerRated
Read this: en.wikipedia.org...

I had no idea there has been this many "school shootings".

According to that, it wasn't uncommon for boys to carry pistols to school in the 1800's which doesn't surprise me a bit. Seems like the majority of the violence (bringing in a gun and going after a specified target or multiple random targets) didn't start until fairly recently.

Why don't we reflect on how things used to be? Maybe that's the answer. See where we went wrong, go back to that, and see if it fixes it.

There used to be Boxing and Riflery classes in the schools,
but the dep of Ed took them out.
Reason given: we don't want all that violence near our children.

Funny thing, no one was shooting up schools when they had their own rifle teams,
and no one was being bullied in the halls when you could "Take it to the ring".




By the way...
what happened to the money, when the Dep of Ed took Riflery and Boxing out of the schools, because we sure as hell didn't get a refund.

Mike Grouchy

reply to post by FyreByrd


Do you know why people LOVE guns? Because they empower you. What you do with that power, is entirely up to you.

Do you know why people HATE guns? Because they're afraid of being shot. Does anyone know what the likelihood of getting shot actually is?

Probably far less that getting plowed into by a drunk driver. Or, of getting kidnapped, killed, and molested by a serial killer.

Oddly enough though, the letter goes on to talk about people's children, an obvious attempt to instigate an emotional reaction. My only problem being thus: MORE kids will die this year from hunger, than bullets. From drunk drivers, than from school shootings. Odd how no one ever blames the cars, never any new laws restricting car sales, or requiring a waiting period 'just in case.' Yep, very odd indeed.

Yes, you, who love your buckets.

You.

I would ask, what's wrong with you, but I already know - you love five gallon buckets more than you love your child, or his child, or her child, or my child. You love buckets, period. Prove me wrong, because you haven't yet.

Buckets. I understand mopping floors is important. Washing cars is important. A way to store cat litter is important. But surely you could use sacks. Because 164 children, innocent children, children who should have grown up safe and happy, died in your buckets between 1984 and 1989 alone. Over 30 babies. A year. Due to you bucket lovers. Far more than those that died due to relatively minor causes, such as gun violence. Not as many as died because Mommy couldn't bother using a proper car seat. But too many.

I am sick of how you hide behind bucket money, gobs and gobs of plastic manufacturers money, while complaining about the influence of money in politics. If any other common item like a bucket was killing kids off at the rate of 30 to 40 a year like, say, cars (whoops, bad example, cars kill kids like mad, nevermind) or accidental ingestion of medications (whoops, another awful example, that one kills kids off like flies too - 45000 world wide a year), well, never mind, anyway, if things I didn't like, like buckets, were killing kids off 30 a year for no reason, the government would jump right in.

I love buckets. I had them myself, and used them to mop floors and wash cars. When I became a parent, I found that in the US alone, 30 to 40 kids a year die in buckets, and now I just use a hose. I certainly don't want anyone I love to die in a bucket. And bathtubs, my god, 80 kids a year in the US alone. I have ripped out all the bathtubs, gotten rid of the buckets, and got rid of all medications, cleaners and detergents in my home, and put them away forever.

It is not the anti-bucket people who will make this right. It's the pro-bucket people who finally realize they should just dump water on the floor with a cup. And I make my kids wear bicycle helmets in the car.