geo-engineering and chemtrails, Yes there is a difference.

The whole point of this thread is that the lunacy of chemtrails is going to end up clouding the real issues of geo-engineering.
I certainly wouldn't want to be here trying to educate people about contrails and inadvertently cover up a real issue that should be investigated. That's not my intent or wish.

InverseLookingGlass


I believe it's quite likely the USG has tested cloud seeding. The corporations that need free water would be howling for it. There is definitely motive.

Actually, cloud seeding is a reality and have been for over 60 years.
Here is a company that can seed clouds in your area, for a fee.

These are things I wish the chemtrail crowd would educate themselves on so that we could have meaningful discussions about geo-engineering and bypass the things that aren't a factor.

My disagreement comes from this:


And then claiming with authority that this is proof of chemtrails. If you truly understand contrails, weather, and clouds, you would have to say this is normal, given the conditions and amount of traffic in the area.

And as nonpoint21 mentioned, we don't look up the weather balloon data for each area in order to make the assumption that these are normal contrails, we use logic and say that this appears to be very normal based on the science. If someone wanted to come in and prove differently, they would need to get direct air samples of the trails in order to make any definitive statements. We welcome that angle as well. I just wish that all involved would understand the scientific process.

reply to post by NONPOINT21


Your post pretty much confirms that "our problem" is actually real - if you did understand contrails you would not describe well known and studied behaviour of contrails as new, unusual, different or chemtrails.

QED.

Now your side will spout weather conditions and altitude and yada yada, but your side never presents any evidence of what altitudes and what conditions cause each trail to stay or dissipate.

Actually "our side" presents bucketloads of evidence for that - have a look at www.contrailscience.com some time. Another example is the NASA contrail page - "Your side" writes it all off as propaganda, govt disinfo and the like - eg www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by network dude


Brilliantly said in your OP there, it's exactly what I have been clumsily trying to say in several posts but without apparent success.

Good one

network dude
I am not sure how it happened, but somehow, we, the debunkers, have gone from trying to make folks understand contrails, to defending if geo-engineering is happening. Since the two are different animals, I think we need to step back and regroup.

not me.

I look at het evidence & evaluate whether it is real or not.

so far the supposed evidence that atmospheric spraying of some sort as part of a geo-engineering programme is taking place is rubbish - so that is what I say (or at least what I try to say!)

Because geoengineering IS taking place - carbon sequestration, biofuels, varkious other things - these are all geoengineering too, and are definitively taking place.

InverseLookingGlass
source link

I couldn't agree more with AG on this one.

This one time, I am going to have to say, yes, I also agree with Al Gore.

I feel like since lots of folks pointed to de-forestation early on, perhaps a large re-forestation plan would be in order. It's something that can't hurt, it would be kind of easy to do if it was broken down into regions, and it would provide much needed timber for future generations.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I see what you are saying. It's kind of the same thing. You are paying attention to geo-engineering talk and keeping up with current news. I think that's exactly what we need to be doing. I just feel as if the chemtrail thing being lumped in with geo-engineering lessens the focus.

Just because chemtrail are most often mis-identified contrails, doesn't mean that geo-engineering cannot happen. (and as you say, in some forms, it's already happening)

reply to post by network dude


contrails should persist for 50 seconds or less and can only happen at about -40 degrees in above 70% humidity.

I have watched the flight traffic on here: flightaware.com...

watch your area and see where the planes are coming from and going.....you can even write down their tail number that the site gives you and see if next time you get chemtrails.....it is the same plane or not.

places like Arizona in the summer should never have contrails but the do all the time.....because they are chemtrails

I don't ever recall seeing this type of stuff growing up.

Dr. Len Horowitz has researched and written extensively about this and states that they started spraying chemtrails in the late 90's

there are tons of patents for this technology......one thing you need to know about patents (I own five) ... you have to use them and prove that you are using them or you can lose them.

UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by network dude

 

contrails should persist for 50 seconds or less and can only happen at about -40 degrees in above 70% humidity.

Fantastic! Is there any chance we could have a bit more than just your word on that?

Nice to see your reincarnation. Try to be nice so you can be.

UxoriousMagnus
places like Arizona in the summer should never have contrails but the do all the time.....because they are chemtrails...

Most contrails are made at around 35,000 feet, which is generally the cruising altitude for passenger jets (give or take a couple thousand feet). The temperature at 35,000 feet in Arizona can be close to the same temperature at 35,000 feet in Minnesota (usually between -60° and -40° F).

That's because there is very little atmosphere at 35,000 feet, and the atmosphere is what holds heat. With a very thin atmosphere, there is not much to hold the heat, no matter if that thin atmosphere is above Arizona in the summer or above Minnesota in the winter.

UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by network dude

 

there are tons of patents for this technology......one thing you need to know about patents (I own five) ... you have to use them and prove that you are using them or you can lose them.

so does that mean that the infamous "Welsbach patent" was never actually used, since it is now expired?

Soylent Green Is People

UxoriousMagnus
places like Arizona in the summer should never have contrails but the do all the time.....because they are chemtrails...

Most contrails are made at around 35,000 feet, which is generally the cruising altitude for passenger jets (give or take a couple thousand feet). The temperature at 35,000 feet in Arizona can be close to the same temperature at 35,000 feet in Minnesota (usually between -60° and -40° F).

That's because there is very little atmosphere at 35,000 feet, and the atmosphere is what holds heat. With a very thin atmosphere, there is not much to hold the heat, no matter if that thin atmosphere is above Arizona in the summer or above Minnesota in the winter.

edit on 1/16/2014 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

and humidity?

also....when I see "chemtrails" they are always much lower than the "at-altitude" aircraft.....this is common when "chemtrails" are reported

network dude

UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by network dude

 

contrails should persist for 50 seconds or less and can only happen at about -40 degrees in above 70% humidity.

Fantastic! Is there any chance we could have a bit more than just your word on that?

Nice to see your reincarnation. Try to be nice so you can be.

sure....sorry about that

this is from the NASA site:

science-edu.larc.nasa.gov...

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


Cool, could you help me out a bit? I looked at the Appleman chart and noticed that it only predicted persistence, not longevity, unless I am not understanding it.

Thanks

ND

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


From your link

Some contrails are short, and last for only a few seconds. Other contrails are very long, and continue to grow long after the jet airplane has passed. Why do some contrails remain in the sky so long?

Yes, why so long indeed?

Where is the bit about only lasting 50 seconds?

Also, when you say the ones you see are lower, how do you know?

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


Thanks for the info...now, care to interpret the specific portion of the information contained within the linked page supporting this statement?

contrails should persist for 50 seconds or less and can only happen at about -40 degrees in above 70% humidity.

Because I read the material found at the link and I saw nothing there supporting such a claim...at least in regard to the 50 seconds...

not saying it is not there...just saying I did not see it...

waynos
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

From your link

Some contrails are short, and last for only a few seconds. Other contrails are very long, and continue to grow long after the jet airplane has passed. Why do some contrails remain in the sky so long?

Yes, why so long indeed?

Where is the bit about only lasting 50 seconds?

Also, when you say the ones you see are lower, how do you know?

edit on 16-1-2014 by waynos because: (no reason given)

I will have to find the 50 second statement.....it has been years since I researched all of this.

as for the how do I know question......because I can see the regular flight pattern way up at cruise altitude making either no trail at all or a short persistent contrail and planes at a much lower altitude making day long "chemtrails" at the same time.

I live in north Idaho....Planes fly into and out of Spokane International and also come from California into Canada and back as well as some flight into and out of Seattle that pass by us. The flight patterns are very limited.....you can look them up on the flight tracker I provided......we get the checker board going here and watch the planes doing it.....they are flying all over the place right above us even turning in arcs not related to any airport.

The stuff starts to drip down and if the sun hits it right....it looks like an oil sheen in the air. It is followed by days of respiratory issues of all ages....dry cough and chest congestion and pain as well as burning eyes and nose at times.

My two cents to the thread is, and will continue to be, this:

The word "chemtrails," needs to be removed from the title of the forum.

There is no question geo-engineering is discussed.

However, until such time one of the tin-foil hats proclaiming this...

====== >>>

is a contrail and this...

=============================================== >>>>

is a chemtrail...

proves this in open court, then it is a freaking joke of humongous proportions...

And I do not want to hear any wah-wahs stating a court or lawyer would not get involved, because there are plenty of Jackie Chiles-types out there that would take the case on a civil basis, let alone a criminal basis, if there was even a shred of evidence...

So, once again, get a hold of this guy...



Paraphrasing what he says in the video, "If there is ONE chemtrail believer on the jury, we win." There is no doubt the guy would take your case...

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


Well, have you looked at Skyvector? Just make sure it's in 'World Hi' mode and you should see many, many potential flight routes which cross each other in your area.

FR24 etc work all very well, but they don't show you where planes should go or a particular pattern.

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


Yes, thank you. But how do you know they are lower? It cannot be because the trail 'looks' lower due to appearing much bigger. This does not work with contrails, the bigger trail is not necessarily lower, it just spread out more, ie



I have been photographing trails for years but have not seen anything like you describe, photo's would be helpful if you can get them.


Could you also explain why you believe a contrail should disappear after no more than about 50 seconds and also why, if this applies to contrails it does not also apply to cirrus clouds. I would like to understand your position but, being honest, this claim makes no sense to me.