UFO interest peaked in the 1990s and is now in decline

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


There will never be an official disclosure, never proof in a youtube video or ATS thread, some kind of "breaking" news flash, not a single official press release or announcement.. IMHO proof is measured on an individual basis; until we get over the "is it hoax or real" phase we will never begin to ask the questions that actually matter, and the issue will continue to be obscure and omitted from the cultural dialogue.

What about the hundreds of military men, FAA, government and civilian eyewitnesses of these craft? The soldiers and officers who spoke up after the Bentwaters incident, or two world renowned astronauts coming on record that they believe the UFO phenomenon is most likely explained by extraterrestrial presence? You do know there is a lot more to this than #ty youtube clips and crazy people making stuff up (ie Meier and Alex Collier)

I don't follow mainstream UFOlogy or buy into new age scam artists, and I absolutely despise liars and charlatans who give this field of study a bad name. But after my own sightings of bright orbs moving like hummingbirds and disappearing into thin air, and then seeing so many men and women in uniform- military, government and FAA sharing their experiences and going on record.. Makes me think there may be some substance to this after all. Its not proof, but it's definitely a reason to dig deeper, wouldn't you think?

Just my viewpoint though, look forward to hear your thoughts..

reply to post by lampsalot


There could be two reasons for this; the lack of evidence and the lack of any recent major sightings.

Everything that's known about cases like Rendelsham forest has been known for the last decade at least, no new info has emerged that will put these cases back into the spotlight.

And there are no major sightings in recent history that has sparked public interest for any length of time. The Norway spiral did drum up some interest in UFO's until the official explanation came through (which I don't believe for a second.)

What ufology needs is a new, well documented case to give it a shot in the arm, but we need the pilots of these craft to stop being so camera shy and put on a show for everybody to see.

AliceBleachWhite
While there is a genuine UFO phenomenon, we still can't quantify it entirely.

BlueMule
How on earth would you know whether it's genuine or not

There is certainly a real phenomenon of people seeing things in the sky that they personally can't identify using an earthly explanation. Perhaps in some cases when the account of the person who witnessed the object is investigated, some of those accounts can readily be explained by others or after some investigation, in which case it would not be a UFO.

Then there are some cases that the account of the person who witnessed the object is investigated, and it is NOT identified with earthly explanations. Those would be UFOs.

That's not to say that something odd seen in the sky that has not been identified is necessarily an ET craft. It is just simply that based on the investigation account of the person who witnessed the object, the object remain unidentified -- i.e., it's a UFO.

SecTownKid
reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

 

What about the hundreds of military men, FAA, government and civilian eyewitnesses of these craft? The soldiers and officers who spoke up after the Bentwaters incident, or two world renowned astronauts coming on record that they believe the UFO phenomenon is most likely explained by extraterrestrial presence? You do know there is a lot more to this than #ty youtube clips and crazy people making stuff up (ie Meier and Alex Collier)

The human propensity for seeing things one can not identify does not discriminate. Even we astronomers sometimes see a UFO, the difference is we don't jump to the conclusion that because it is unidentified it means that there are aliens behind it, the government knows about it and all the other commonly accepted UFO lore others do.

You hear stories about the people who see something they can't identify and then think aliens. What you don't hear are the stories of people who see something and then identify it.

This leads to a perception that because the aforementioned people saw something they could not identify that it is mysterious when a person right next them might have easily identified it.

This is called selection bias in science.

There are plenty of earthly explanations for what all of the above saw, none of which involve aliens.

By the way, people are prone to all sorts of irrational beliefs, so it should not surprise you that there would be a couple of astronauts or other notable people who share in such a belief without personal evidence of their own.

Since you're basically saying these very credible people's opinions are irrational for being open to the possibilities, what do you propose these objects moving 1500 mph on radar could be? Or balls of light that move soundlessly and have been known to hover above nuclear storage facilities even shutting them off? It's cases like these that need to be taken very seriously and can't be written off as weather balloons and swamp gas.

They are not necessarily "ET" I agree with you there, but when you call people irrational for just laying the "ET" possibility on the table in my opinion this is detrimental (making people less likely to share their experiences or perspectives on what it could be- how are we to rule anything out?). I saw something that changed my view on UFOs forever, and honestly after seeing it I don't buy into the space alien explanation, because it looked more like energy. What if these things are inter dimensional beings and or unknown entities or pure energy and consciousness, what if they ARE the craft?

As you can see I have no idea what they are and am not pretending for one minute that I do, I just know they exist and weather balloons and swamp gas do not explain what I saw. What we're dealing with is so beyond what we know, making any judgement on possibilities at this point is not wise we need to study this more.. I wish the general public interest was higher so we can begin to understand what these things might be, half the people still don't even think they exist.

SecTownKid
Since you're basically saying these very credible people's opinions are irrational for being open to the possibilities, what do you propose these objects moving 1500 mph on radar could be? Or balls of light that move soundlessly and have been known to hover above nuclear storage facilities even shutting them off? It's cases like these that need to be taken very seriously and can't be written off as weather balloons and swamp gas.

They are not necessarily "ET" I agree with you there, but when you call people irrational for just laying the "ET" possibility on the table in my opinion this is detrimental (making people less likely to share their experiences or perspectives on what it could be- how are we to rule anything out?). I saw something that changed my view on UFOs forever, and honestly after seeing it I don't buy into the space alien explanation, because it looked more like energy. What if these things are inter dimensional beings and or unknown entities or pure energy and consciousness, what if they ARE the craft?

As you can see I have no idea what they are and am not pretending for one minute that I do, I just know they exist and weather balloons and swamp gas do not explain what I saw. What we're dealing with is so beyond what we know, making any judgement on possibilities at this point is not wise we need to study this more.. I wish the general public interest was higher so we can begin to understand what these things might be, half the people still don't even think they exist.

Well if i saw something moving at mach 2 on radar my first thought would be a jet.why does it have to be an alien because its on radar moving at 1500 MPH? Did you know interceptor missile travel at over 3000 MPH and we track them on radar too. As far as balls of light well they could be almost anything depends on the sighting even planes at high altitude can look like a ball of light to some people depends on whos seeing it.But dont you find it at least a little odd that to ghost hunters these balls of light show up and they think they're ghosts? Several instances of lights being observed in forests attributed to ghosts.Just because you see something you cant explain doesnt mean there isnt one. The next time you have an encounter with a UFO note your location the area in the sky it was and the direction. And will see what we can find out very rarely does a UFO sighting not have an explanation. Dont take this the wrong way i thoroughly believe people think they see alien craft and they are not lying. But theres always a but isnt there usually meaning in like 99 cases out of a hundred there is a reasonable explanation. Heck i just learned recently here on ATS one of the UFO sighting i couldn't explain was faked.

reply to post by dragonridr


My bad meant to say 15000 mph lol, anyway some of these objects reportedly stop abruptly and make right angle turns at these speeds..

But yeah, I definitely hear what you're saying and don't take it the wrong way. I think UFOs are too associated with aliens and we could be missing something here.. what I saw was definitely not an "aircraft" and I don't think it was a ghost or anything it was obviously physical and could manifest itself. It moved so fast and so brightly it left all kinds of tracers in my eyes for minutes after, could be some kind of natural phenomena.

Aliens or not, I hope people keep an open mind to the possibilities and use their own mind, without the preconceived filters of media and popular opinion. just go out to the southwest desert to camp out for a week and I guarantee you will see some # that will leave you changed if you go into it with the right intent.

I think this is in the publics interest to study and learn more about. I think the notion that they are aliens is kind of off and a huge jump but in my eyes, if they are intelligent or even exist parallel to us on a different frequency, hell that would be just as cool if not more mind #ing.

SecTownKid
reply to post by dragonridr

 

My bad meant to say 15000 mph lol, anyway some of these objects reportedly stop abruptly and make right angle turns at these speeds..

But yeah, I definitely hear what you're saying and don't take it the wrong way. I think UFOs are too associated with aliens and we could be missing something here.. what I saw was definitely not an "aircraft" and I don't think it was a ghost or anything it was obviously physical and could manifest itself. It moved so fast and so brightly it left all kinds of tracers in my eyes for minutes after, could be some kind of natural phenomena.

Aliens or not, I hope people keep an open mind to the possibilities and use their own mind, without the preconceived filters of media and popular opinion. just go out to the southwest desert to camp out for a week and I guarantee you will see some # that will leave you changed if you go into it with the right intent.

I think this is in the publics interest to study and learn more about. I think the notion that they are aliens is kind of off and a huge jump but in my eyes, if they are intelligent or even exist parallel to us on a different frequency, hell that would be just as cool if not more mind #ing.

There is a theory that the magnetic fields of the earth can cause these and there is some evidence to show this. There was a correlation i read one time where they showed a link between earthquakes and these orbs. If its related to magnetic fields then that could explain why people see them indoors as well. Im suspecting that it has something to do with the visual cortex being affected. But who knows the problem is serious research into orbs is that most scientists refuse to touch it with alot of loonies screaming aliens.But they arent a new phenomenon heck they were foo fighters in WW2. As for if there aliens i seriously doubt aliens are inside a glowing ball it just wouldnt be cool.

Thecakeisalie
reply to post by lampsalot

 

There could be two reasons for this; the lack of evidence and the lack of any recent major sightings.

And the recent time is correlated with the spread of widespread cell phones and video cameras.

The better the measurement technology the worse the data.

Fascinating.

SecTownKid
Since you're basically saying these very credible people's opinions are irrational for being open to the possibilities, what do you propose these objects moving 1500 mph on radar could be?

Any number of UCAs *Unacknowledged Classified Aircraft".

Or balls of light that move soundlessly and have been known to hover above nuclear storage facilities even shutting them off?

Sounds like an electromagnetic phenomena. But the first place I wouldn't be going with that is to aliens. I'd go to nature. Either that or the government testing an EMP weapon on its own facilities (not out of the question).

It's cases like these that need to be taken very seriously and can't be written off as weather balloons and swamp gas.

No, but they don't equal aliens either. A rational person would go through several rational ideas of what they might be before jumping to this:

True that; and I'm not trying to jump to conclusions here and frankly don't think that aliens are the explanation. I just think all options should be left on the table since we know so little about this phenomenon.. and the fact that I'm alive, using a device, that translates my thoughts into a language through ones and zeros for you to interpret across the globe and respond, that's crazy enough for me to think that anything is possible. #, humanity is so improbable and bizarre why not other improbable and bizarre possibilities? Haha just a stoned rant though appreciate the response bro

Quite an interesting situation. "Interest peaked" decades ago, yet polls have shown that belief "we are not alone" and belief that the gov. "knows more than they've been forthcoming with" are at resounding highs. Maybe in the age of easily faked photos/vids people have just become apathetic to the topic since most seem to think we've been visited and the world is still turning.

With belief and apathy so high, and the "terrorist threat" wearing thin as an excuse for continued absurd military-industrial-intelligence-complex spending,... the air seems ripe to roll out good ol' Project Blue Beam to continue spending and stripping rights away.

SecTownKid
... but when you call people irrational for just laying the "ET" possibility on the table in my opinion this is detrimental (making people less likely to share their experiences or perspectives ...

We really have no need for more stories.

We have over 70 years of stories.

We require good evidence.

Stories are for TV entertainment, for people to ooo and ahhh at, but, are essentially worthless and even detrimental through attempts to fit the evidence (if any) into a witness-biased shape/cause/box.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


Confirmation bias works both ways.

We do still live in a world where stories have enough worth that people are convicted of crimes on a daily basis because of witness stories. The fact of the matter is that "stories" (aka: testimony) are evidence. While it's not always the strongest form of evidence, it is often more than enough to cost someone their freedom in society.

Testimony is valid evidence, and from top military brass, to airline pilots, to FAA executives, scientists, cabinet level international politicians, intelligence officers, astronauts, and more... there is a preponderance of the evidence that earth has been visited, and that we are not alone in the universe.

redmage
reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

 

Confirmation bias works both ways.

We do still live in a world where stories have enough worth that people are convicted of crimes on a daily basis because of witness stories. The fact of the matter is that "stories" (aka: testimony) are evidence. While it's not always the strongest form of evidence, it is often more than enough to cost someone their freedom in society.

Testimony is valid evidence, and from top military brass, to airline pilots, to FAA executives, scientists, cabinet level international politicians, intelligence officers, astronauts, and more... there is a preponderance of the evidence that earth has been visited, and that we are not alone in the universe.

edit on 1/10/14 by redmage because: (no reason given)

Crimes are everyday events.
We can analyze crimes.
We can pick through all the forensic evidence left at crime scenes; forensic evidence that details KNOWN variables and phenomenon that can be corroborated, tested again, and validated.
Witness testimony only SUPPORTS this as it applies to crime.

Otherwise, if the ONLY "evidence" is someone claiming a crime happened, a witness testimony, and there's ZERO or LITTLE supporting evidence, or GOOD evidence to support such, the witness testimony is filed away and the crime goes UNSOLVED.

Such is the case with UFO phenomenon.
If all there is is witness testimony, it goes absolutely nothing to advance the interrogation of the subject if such doesn't lead to any good evidence.
Further, as often is the case, witness testimony often confuses the issue, even in cases where there's supposedly multiple witnesses as can be illustrated with this case:
"Top Ten" UFO Case - Yukon, Canada, 1996 - BUSTED!?
Short Story; multiple witnesses described a large "Mothership" UFO, when, upon more recent investigation, we see the event was identified as a Re-Entry event:
Old Un-Known Identified as Re-Entry

That's just one supporting example.

Witness Testimony is the WEAKEST and most Unreliable data set, and for the purposes of proper UFO investigation it's often misleading and damaging to discovery of actual event causation and should rank, for the most part as near inadmissible except where strong data supports testimony.

redmage
Quite an interesting situation. "Interest peaked" decades ago, yet polls have shown that belief "we are not alone" are at resounding highs.

"We are not alone" doesn't necessarily mean that these people believe that there are aliens flying saucers on earth.

It could just as well mean that given all of the places in the galaxy and universe where life can live that they know the chances that we are alone are very small.

Every year as we learn more about the universe the idea that we're not alone grows as it seems like a mere formality now before we find other life out there.

You'll be hard pressed to find a scientist or anyone else who doubts that there is life on other worlds, and we have not even found it yet. The evidence for it likely existing just keeps piling up.

This has nothing to do with UFOs and more to do with where the science has been going in the last 40 years or so.

It's funny how the human mind works and scientists are humans too.

Over 40 years ago many people didn't believe in life 'out there' and the majority of scientists would have been sceptical. In fact they maintained that rigid scepticism up to a decade or so ago when evidence for planets existing in large numbers came streaming through and the existence of water in large amounts was confirmed on Mars and other moons in the solar system.

It's funny because it was always the case that planets should be common, there was no reason to think that our solar system was in any way exceptional. The evidence of billions of stars in our own miky way was there all the time. Even if planets weren't common as in 1/10 solar systems, that STILL left 100s of millions of planets. So life on planets would still be extremely likely.

BUT what gets ignored in this debate is the fact that life could also be common on moons or around stars or some other process we don't know about. Our observer bias is extremely strong. There's no reason at all that life could not be something very different to our DNA carbon based life. It could be made of clouds of plasma or based on silicon or some other type of chemistry. Not a problem. In fact it's 100% a given in my book because we are close to creating new lifeforms based on silicon and carbon and metal. Life is just inputting energy , using energy and organising information and reproducing...that's about it. You just need a framework for that to happen.

Scientists are very conservative, it's part of the way good science is constructed, but sometimes, like people, they prefer to be part of the herd instead of leading it.


Now the meme is that the long distances between stars will inhibit life spreading around. There is no logical reason to assume this given different technologies, life spans and the age of the universe, but this is the new stage we've reached to throw up artificial roadblocks.

from everything I hear and read and see about ufo's in print or on tv, I would say the interest has never been higher.

data5091
from everything I hear and read and see about ufo's in print or on tv, I would say the interest has never been higher.

I don't think its interest in the subject, so much as people accepting the existence of these things a priori. This has potentially very interesting consequences from a number of angles.

UFOlogy has always been outside of mainstream interest, just like conspiracy theories.

When a related story comes out then there is a peek interest for a while then it dies down.

Most of the discussion of UFOS is on the 70s and 80s after the Roswell story was rekindled and the MJ12 documents were revealed.

There can be a few reasons for this.

If there is a real visitation by aliens they may have completed their major tasks and withdrawn somewhat.

Or if the Gov is repressing the story then perhaps this is an indication that hey have been successful since no universal paradigm has been created.

I see any real aliens as being extremely cautious whatever their doing and don’t dance to our timetable or desires…why should they, it may be that humankind may be to them as wild animals are to us.

All this is hypothetical, of course.

That’s what I believe one should do--understand perspectives: aliens are here to help or aliens are here to hurt or something in between, for example, and postulate possibilities within those perspectives.

For that’s all we can do from the perspective of not knowing.