Anybody else notice the stunning increase in volume in the conspiracies in religion sections? this i

freedom7
You flip on the news, and you realize it would take complete ignorance to deny the world has not grown to become so evil in each and every way, it's ignorance to say It's impossible that knowledge is being increased dramatically . Now we have social media outlets spawning up by the month, we can communicate with strangers from Africa in under 30 seconds on the internet.

BS. Mankind has always been despicable. Your first sentence explains this whole "phenomenon" that you are talking about. The news is the most successful when it is broadcasting bad things. That is what people watch. Therefore it is in the news' best interest to find topics about bad things going on. Though it skews the perception of what is going on in the world. Also keep in mind, with the internet, we are more connected than ever before and can access information on unprecedented scales. Things that were never reported on before, get reported on. One more point, there are more people than ever before in the history of mankind, it goes hand in hand that there would be more evil and destruction. Everything gets ramped up in scale as the population increases.

You see, that cannot spawn up by chance. Science has explained over and over that the chances for life come into existence and be sustained on this planet the way it has was less than 1 in a trillion. Every single form of life had to be in complete harmony with one another, the chemistry had to be flawless, one degree to high or too low and the house of cards would crumble. If our earth was not aligned EXACTLY where it is , the sun would not emit the rays we needed to survive.

If there are 1 trillion planets in the universe and there is a 1/1 trillion chance for life to appear on a planet. Statistically, there will be 1 planet with life on it. You really don't understand large numbers and scales correctly if you think the infinitesimal chances of life appearing on this planet are a good reason for ID or something. Not to mention, scientists more than ever before are starting to believe that life is actually pretty common in this universe. You forgot to mention that for life to appear and develop EXACTLY the way it did on this planet, the odds are small. But we don't understand all of life, we don't know if it can arise under different circumstances. Your whole argument here is an argument from ignorance.

Now If all the perfect chemistry exists for our life to be sustained, based on that criteria isn't it also reasonable to conclude that the perfect guidelines would be given when we needed them the most?

There are plenty of planets in the universe, if ours didn't measure up, there is always a chance that another one would.

The very fact that we seek to find answers whether that be in a religious belief, a scientific conclusion, a loving relationship etc... has to tell us that their is a seeker inside us all. Because we were not meant to live alone ( the bible also explains how there is always that human need to be with God, how man's soul was not meant to be alone).

No it just says that we are naturally predisposed to make arguments from ignorance.

We were not meant to live without God, and on our own we fall flat on our faces. It is only our misguided pride that leads us to believe we can make it on our own. And the saddest part about it is that, when one shows pride so many fundamentalists jump on them and make them feel so UNLOVED, JUDGED and CONDEMNED that one who is searching automatically assumes that the God that these people represent must therefore be like them, this is a mistake though.

We live without God everyday. God didn't come down and help me do my work for me today and he hasn't helped out anywhere else.

This is the game changer. When you call upon the name of God, and when you truly seek to find the truth with all of your heart you will have access to the spirit of discernment, because a new spirit will come within you- the holy spirit. And when your soul is united with the holy spirit guys, I promise you it is a different world entirely. You will begin to see the great delusion that so many are falling for. You will see why it is IMPOSSIBLE to NOT be blind when you refuse to want to know the truth.

Ok. "Hey, God, come down and prove yourself to me, I think you are a waste of human thought and if I am wrong strike me down where I stand."

*waiting...* *waiting...*

Nope, still no answer. You're wrong.

It is impossible to understand the end times agenda without understanding biblical prophecy. And it is impossible to understand the bible without an open heart. It all comes down to the intentions of your heart. This is why God is always in the process of trying to humble your pride. Not because he is a dictator but because he knows it's pride that holds us back from knowing and experiencing the truth that Jesus said would "set us free".

The end times prophecy? I assume you are referring to Revelations. The same book that was supposed to be written about the Roman Empire.

P.S.: I cut out a lot of your proselytizing because it was useless filler and was making it hard to quote specific parts of your OP that I wanted to address.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

If there are 1 trillion planets in the universe and there is a 1/1 trillion chance for life to appear on a planet. Statistically, there will be 1 planet with life on it.

lol, I'm not sure that you understand statistics, Krazysh0t. If there are 1 trillion planets in the universe (there are likely many more) and one of them has life, that is an observation, not a prediction.

The odds that any planet will hold life is a much different calculation than simple observation -- if every planet was inhospitable to life, for example, the odds that any would contain life would be zero.

However, the real problem is not one of physical scale, or of time, two things that many non-philosophers hide their arguments in, but rather the question of why there is something, rather than nothing, when the odds of there being nothing, rather than something, are effectively infinite. And yet, here we are. I don't postulate an answer to that, but merely point it out -- it has nothing to do with the quantity of "something" (even time is a "something") but rather the black and white question of existence, any existence.

reply to post by freedom7


Totally agree with the OP stating there is a conspiracy against Christianty, exspeacilly in the Middle East at the moment. However whilst the US allows church's such as Westboro Church to continue to spurt their hatred and using the bible as the context to do so, then yes I agree that some sections of Christianty should be classed as a hate group like the KKK.

I hope the biblical prophery does come true and I hope even more that the messiah tells groups such as Westboro Church that they do not speak on behalf of god and that they are judged accordingly.

Finally, before anyone states "Freedom of Speech" for Westboro Church, the same argument can also be used for others to condem the religion. I think Christanity would get a lot better press if they actually acted in a Christian way towards their fellow man instead of judging them.

reply to post by adjensen


I understand statistics just fine. I just made the one up in the post you quoted to demonstrate my point. I wasn't trying to suggest that was the real chance of life developing on a planet.

Besides, another way of looking at it. We are here, we defied the odds and life developed like it did on this planet. You see no matter how small the percentage is for life to develop like it did on this planet, it isn't 0, therefore on a large enough scale, not only will it be inevitable but eventually it would be pretty common. Humans have a hard time wrapping their heads around large numbers and tend to look at the conditions that formed our planet uniquely, except that the universe is MASSIVE. We've estimated that the number of galaxies in the universe is somewhere around 500 billion. With something like 300 billion stars in our galaxy alone, each of which having the possibility of having their own solar systems circling them, there are MANY MANY MANY chances for life to arise in the universe.

Why do humans think we are special? Evidence from science has ALWAYS shown that to be the opposite, yet we cling to this folly thinking religiously (lol).

reply to post by Krazysh0t

I understand statistics just fine. I just made the one up in the post you quoted to demonstrate my point. I wasn't trying to suggest that was the real chance of life developing on a planet.

No, you're missing the point, because your "argument from scale" is meaningless, statistically.

Let's say that the odds of winning the lottery are 1 in 172,000,000 (I think that's pretty close to the MegaMillions number.) Now, suppose that you play the same numbers for the next 172,000,000 lotteries, you're sure to win, right? Wrong, because the odds reset each time there is a new lottery. Applying that to your "enough planets and life is guaranteed" idea, it's the same thing, because the odds reset with each planet. Odds that life will develop of 1 in 1 trillion, or even 1 in 10, does not guarantee life will exist, no matter how many planets there are.

But, again, it ignores the fundamental problem of why there is something, rather than nothing, when nothing is (almost) infinitely more likely, and that has nothing to do with physical scale or time.

reply to post by flammadraco


No, they wouldn't. There are a lot of Christians who behave in a Christian way each and every day, but you never hear anything about them. Good is boring no matter who does it.

As far as the prevalence of conspiracies in religions being so common. I blame the Internet. Before, people who were pushing these things were isolated or had maybe only a few compatriots to talk to. The Internet has let people of like mind get organized and feel like there are more of them than maybe there are. Plus, it lets people who maybe never knew of these things discover them.

We can argue about how good or bad this may or may not be, but it certainly has created a deluge of stuff to wade through.

reply to post by adjensen


The simple way to say it is that there is no law of averages.

reply to post by ketsuko


If what you say is true, then in the US, proper Christian Church's should picket the likes of Westboro Church and the nutter in Florida with placards that state "Not in Our Name" or phrases to that effect. Instead they do nothing.

Perhaps Christians need to differentiate themselves from groups such as these. If this was to happen then perhaps I would have more respect for your beliefs but until such time all I see with the Christian Church is hatred and yes certain sections do need to be regarded as "Hate Groups". 

reply to post by adjensen


Yes, I understand that with every roll the odds reset, but the more you roll the odds of NOT obtaining your desired result DO actually decrease. There can only be so many times you don't hit your desired result before it becomes a statistical anomaly for you to keep not hitting it. For instance, every time I roll a die, I have a 1 in 6 chance of getting a 1 (or any other number on the die). I understand that if I roll the die again (after failing to get a 1 the first time) that the odds are still 1 in 6 to roll a one, but the odds that I continue to not roll a 1 have actually dropped (5/6 * 5/6 = 25/36 < 5/6). Keep rolling that die and eventually the probability to NOT roll a 1 slowly approaches 0 (while never actually reaching it, since it is statistically possible to roll a die infinitely and never have a 1).

Let's extrapolate that example out to the planets in the universe. Every planet in the universe has a 1/x chance of developing life on it. This means that each planet has a (x - 1)/x chance of not developing life on it. After the first planet that doesn't have life, you multiply (x - 1)/x times the remaining probability, (x - 1)^2/x^2. We can generalize the exponent, call it y, and you have this equation: (x - 1)^y/x^y where y is the number of planets you've looked at without life. If you take the limit as y goes to infinity then eventually that equation will approach 0. In other words, if it is possible for life to develop in the universe, given a large enough universe, it will almost certainly happen (which is true since we exist).

reply to post by Krazysh0t

(while never actually reaching it, since it is statistically possible to roll a die infinitely and never have a 1).

Exactly what I said -- the result being that, statistically speaking, there is no guarantee. But it is further compounded that life is a result of a series of events and circumstances, not a single dice roll.

Don't get me wrong, I expect that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, and there is nothing in scripture (this is, after all, a thread about religion, not aliens ) against it, but the thing that troubles me is Fermi's Paradox -- if there is life out there, where is it? Given the time scale, an advanced civilization would have colonized the galaxy millions or billions of years ago.

reply to post by adjensen


Life existing outside of our planet doesn't necessitate it being intelligent. That is a whole NEW slew of variables and probabilities going into it (of course again it is possible since it happened at least once in our universe).

In addition, my go to answer to Fermi's Paradox is the Zoo Hypothesis.

ETA: also keep in mind that the galaxy alone is HUGE. You could point a spaceship in a random direction and you actually have better odds of not hitting anything than actually hitting something before you exit the galaxy. The fact we haven't seen another intelligent species could have something to do with this. Even for a spacefaring race that is generations of technology ahead of us would take a great deal of time exploring and documenting EVERY star in the galaxy.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

In addition, my go to answer to Fermi's Paradox is the Zoo Hypothesis.

C'mon, Kirk violated the Prime Directive every other episode!

There is nothing to indicate anything but a dead universe out there. If they're hiding, they're doing it well.

reply to post by adjensen


And how do you know that a religious event in the past either from Christian lore or from another religion wasn't an alien race violating the prime directive? I'm not saying that AA hypothesis is true, just that maybe a few of those ancient stories could be alien sightings or something.

There are documented radar readings of unexplained things since WWII. Not to mention, are we even sure we are looking for the right things? We search for intelligent life based on our limited grasp of how things work. I'd imagine that the technology involved to be able to cross the distances of the galaxy would be something that we cannot even begin to imagine right now.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

Even for a spacefaring race that is generations of technology ahead of us would take a great deal of time exploring and documenting EVERY star in the galaxy.

The point of the Fermi Paradox is that they're not generations of technology ahead of us, but billions or millions of years ahead of us. They would have colonized every habitable planet while we were still something akin to small rodents or amoeba. Maybe this planet isn't habitable to them, but it would be habitable to some species that would have arisen millions of years before man did. Apparently we're the first air breathers, at least, to emerge out of the ooze.

As for your other post, when you have concrete evidence of aliens, ancient or otherwise, let me know… you don't expect me to just accept the existence of ET on faith, do you?

reply to post by adjensen


I haven't asked you to believe anything on faith. Just giving out possible explanations for the Fermi Paradox, that's all. I never tried to claim that anything I just said is truth. Kind of like how you religious types like to tell us atheist types that we cannot disprove God (and therefore an agnostic approach to religion is probably the most intellectually honest).

reply to post by Krazysh0t


That was a joke, KS

I am "agnostic" when it comes to aliens, though I lean more toward there being intelligent life out there, simply because there is something wrong with a universe this vast and this old and we're the only thing in it. But, regardless of the rationale, Fermi's Paradox still bugs me.

reply to post by adjensen


Pretty much sums up my opinion on the matter as well.

flammadraco
reply to post by ketsuko

 

If what you say is true, then in the US, proper Christian Church's should picket the likes of Westboro Church and the nutter in Florida with placards that state "Not in Our Name" or phrases to that effect. Instead they do nothing.

Perhaps Christians need to differentiate themselves from groups such as these. If this was to happen then perhaps I would have more respect for your beliefs but until such time all I see with the Christian Church is hatred and yes certain sections do need to be regarded as "Hate Groups". 

Christians denounce them all the time. You just aren't listening. For the most part, we are busy with our lives. Why is the only possible denunciation you will accept a noisy counter-protest? Is it not enough for nearly everyone you meet of every religious affiliation to say outright that they are disgusting?

Apparently not. *sigh*

We must burn down their meeting places or something or else it's just not legitimate. Of course, that makes us no better than they are ...

reply to post by freedom7


Want to be more like the biblical Jesus? Give away, not sell, give away all your material possessions, and travel everywhere your feet take you while talking to people about what you believe. Go to local christian churches and overturn their merchandise tables, explaining to them that to make money using God is wrong. Explain to them that every word in the bible was written by humans...which means that any word written by any human is scripture in the grand scheme of things, and should be quoted just like the collection of human writings in the bible are quoted. I am a human, I write words too, are my writings not inspired by God? How do you know? You don't. Therefore, consider these words that I just wrote to be an addendum to the bible...all writings from all humans throughout history should be included as well...get it?

reply to post by adjensen

Lucid's attempt to diminish the unlikelihood of us existing by placing it in the scope of the whole universe ignores the fact that we are not the issue -- something, rather than nothing is the issue, and that has nothing to do with scale.

Actually Adjensen I was ignoring nothing. My response was appropriate to that members bit about the statistical likelihood of those specific conditions arising. It's you who is apparently ignoring an issue [the one actually being discussed there]. If the OP talked about something rather than nothing my post might have addressed that..

Personally I believe something cannot come from nothing but I draw a different scenario from that. The physical Universe is eternal. Infinite series of Big Bangs to Big Crunches for the purpose of creating life forever. That's what I believe is likely to be discovered. Not something I would tout as the truth. Unlike the religious.