You have been Dead longer than you have been Alive

TiM3LoRd

But all we can determine in this reality is this reality. We KNOW what is after because we are not there and when we are there there is no here because it will be there which will be the new here.

You say 'we KNOW what is after..............'.
What is after now?

Is there a before now or an after now?
When did now begin and when will now end?

Can you ever leave here?

TiM3LoRd
But all we can determine in this reality is this reality.

All that can be determined is there is This.
This will always be This but This will constantly appear different.

Itisnowagain

TiM3LoRd

But all we can determine in this reality is this reality. We KNOW what is after because we are not there and when we are there there is no here because it will be there which will be the new here.

You say 'we KNOW what is after..............'.
What is after now?

Is there a before now or an after now?
When did now begin and when will now end?

Can you ever leave here?

edit on 21-12-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Sorry I was supposed to say "we dont KNOW what is after because we are not there.."
I agree with you and the speaker in the video that its always now. until its not.

TiM3LoRd
Sorry I was supposed to say "we dont KNOW what is after because we are not there.."

'There' is just a thought arising here. Here is a never ending fact with thoughts and sensations appearing and disappearing.

I agree with you and the speaker in the video that its always now. until its not.

Nothing can appear outside presence. Presence is the container and the content of existence.

The Absolute is doing what it does - it is Being all there is.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


I have never been dead.....

reply to post by purplemer


I was never born and I will never die.

TiM3LoRd

DeepVisions
This is why it's hard to understand the concept of suicide. I mean, you're going to die relatively soon anyways, why expedite the process? This could be our only opportunity in the human form so why let it go to waste? I guess life is just your own perception.

Exactly right.

People are in such a hurry to see the end they dont realize that when it comes they will wish they had more time.

The world is a brutal place and some people do have worse experiences than others. Sometimes to the point that exceeds their ability to "cope". I guess what I don't understand in what you're saying is, you speak as if we lose our consciousness postmortem and none to speak of prior, ergo after death we wouldn't wish anything right?

I think there is just as much existing before and after life but being able to exist in the physical, one would assume at least, should be special and to an extent is special. But how special is it for a child locked in a closet and fed scraps for decades? Is he worthy of suicide or should he embrace the specialness of life?

It's an interesting topic for sure but I don't think it best to assume living is always better then not. But as DeepVisions stated, we all have our own perceptions.

We exist before we are "born" and we exist after we die, and yes, we do spend a lot more time dead than alive.

What we are discussing here is exactly what the church tries to explain, but the church and religions are wrong.

I was not alive before I was born, and won't be alive after I die, so was I ever here at all?.

Nope.

Think ahead and realize you only exist to serve your masters while you are alive and able to do labor for their gain.

Realize you are not free, realize that only your masters can free you, you cannot (kill / murder) free each other, for that right is not one enjoyed by/ allowed to slaves.

Realize none of this matters at all once one is conscious of the fact that we have all been conditioned to think a certain way, within certain parameters, to relate to each other for the generation of wealth for our masters.

Free Your Mind While You Still Have One, or destroy your mind with consciousness numbing substances and / or entertainment......

Enjoy your freedom, you're only here for a moment.

Imagine having no real concept of time, try to perceive a string of events....Then, Now, Future.

This perceiving a string of events is the way people have been conditioned to think in order to harness their life energy in order to extract labor from them for the benefit of the minority.

The minority is the church, government, financial institutions who store our toil for them and those we cannot see who extract our life force from the "warehouse" without our being able to even comprehend it.

We are born, grow and mature, breed and die, and all of these things we do are manipulated into profit making endeavors by those who are free because of our labor, because we ever even showed up.

There is only now, life is one great big now, every minute you change physically and mentally, you are never who you think you are for more than a minute, you are never anybody, and never have been.

We overthink everything, believing we are smart or something, when our overthinking things really only numbs our minds and distracts us from enjoying now, which is all we have.

Born to be Dead.
Life is a death sentence.

We are conditioned to look upon this way of thinking as a negative way of thinking, because if more realized this it would be more difficult to herd people around and extract labor form them.

Maybe this is why the world is in so much trouble, maybe people have tired of being used for the gain of the minority without even consciously realizing it.

Maybe the minority should have kept the masses illiterate and ignorant, praying for a happy after-life, working like beasts of burden to be free of the toil of life and living.

It actually is nice here if one steps away from it.

DeepVisions
This is why it's hard to understand the concept of suicide. I mean, you're going to die relatively soon anyways, why expedite the process?

Sometimes people are afraid of suffering and pain more than they are of death...like a terminally ill patient who knows the end will hold only slow excruciating agony.
Sometimes people are just subjected to such inhumane cruelties that death is the only release from torment...such as the victem of a terribly unspeakable crime.
Sometimes people are just beat down by life and not given a chance to breath...the loner who can't seem to interact with others and has no friends, family or future.
Sometimes they are fooled by pop culture like the one's who idolize sparkling vampires, mistakenly thinking death is romantic and something to be surrendered to.
Sometimes people become chemically polluted beyond the capasity for rational thought...like someone on SSRI's.
Sometimes people are more afriad of living than they are of dying...like a soldier who commits an atrocity.
Sometimes people are just broken and can't be fixed.
I am not saying I agree with suicide.
My personal view is:

"Ya gotta stick around and see how it turns out..."

That said, if I discovered I was to die a slow and horribly painful (expensive) death...like late stage cancer or radiation poisoning?
I can't honestly say I wouldn't be thinking about it then.

-Peace-

Unity_99

And we came from on High form wonderful levels to begin with, some may have worked their way down, some may have fallen, but we left the eutopias to test ourselves and grow up free will, and find our way back home.

Why would we do something like this to begin with?


If someone has everything in Utopia, that would include testing so in essence you wouldn't need to leave.

Maybe we are still in Utopia but we don't realize it.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Death and non-being are not the same things. Death is the process, the journey; non-being is the outcome, the destination.

We fear death, not because death itself is scary (lthough it can be, depending on situation and circumstance), but because what happens beyond death is scary. To no longer inhabit our body, to be our consciousness, or surround ourselves with our own philosophies, is what scares us.

Death is the process of stripping away all of our faith, and replacing it with an utter certainty: we are ending. Not transitioning to something better, or going to some paradise. Ending.

And that existential fear is one of the key components (among other things) to theological religions. We fear to not be, so we invent a safe place to go when we must confront that reality.

~ Wandering Scribe

Excellent thread.

It is always saddening that meaningless things like 'celebrities and their holidays' being discussed everywhere. But having said that, 3/4th of the world's populace are not yet out of the conditioning to even realise this fact.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd

Technically speaking, I haven't been dead longer than I have been alive, because I never existed before I was born. How I define myself -is alive, and didnt exist before I was born. Unless you believe in reincarnation, but even then one cant be sure for how long you have been dead, compared to being alive.

Okay, so if you are worried about wasting the time that you have you can always look at it like this...

If you take the OP's original proposition and turn it around as a mathematical expression then your lifespan as a fraction of the universe's existence is incredibly small.

E.g. say that you live to be 80 years then your existence as a fraction of the universe's existence would be:

80 divided by 13,700,000,000 (which equals a very, very small number)

And just to cheer you up, that fraction is going to keep getting smaller and smaller as the universe continues to roll on and on until at some-point in the deep, deep, deep future any sentient being working out the maths (which is pretty improbable but just working it in for the point) would probably err on the side of caution and say mathematically speaking you never existed at all.

Perhaps life is not so short after all.

There is much you know but were never taught yet you know. If you know something then you must have experienced it because experience is the only way to truely understand something. Only in understanding can you know anything.

If your conscience dies when your body dies then you would have to learn all you were never taught. Can that be done in a life time? If you think about it it's a pretty big list.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


The only "benefit" to suicide I see is that if someone is in terrible pain, or trapped inside a broken body, as a result of a stroke or some sort of spinal injury that it appears nothing can correct. This issue here is that technical advances come so quickly that there just might be was to rebuild a person soon. The issue there is that if one can afford it. We have a son with CP who's confined to a wheelchair. He donesn't have much of future as far as we can see, unless up pop's some cure using stem cells or computer driven machines which allows him mobility.

Rosinitiate

TiM3LoRd

DeepVisions
This is why it's hard to understand the concept of suicide. I mean, you're going to die relatively soon anyways, why expedite the process? This could be our only opportunity in the human form so why let it go to waste? I guess life is just your own perception.

Exactly right.

People are in such a hurry to see the end they dont realize that when it comes they will wish they had more time.

The world is a brutal place and some people do have worse experiences than others. Sometimes to the point that exceeds their ability to "cope". I guess what I don't understand in what you're saying is, you speak as if we lose our consciousness postmortem and none to speak of prior, ergo after death we wouldn't wish anything right?

I think there is just as much existing before and after life but being able to exist in the physical, one would assume at least, should be special and to an extent is special. But how special is it for a child locked in a closet and fed scraps for decades? Is he worthy of suicide or should he embrace the specialness of life?

It's an interesting topic for sure but I don't think it best to assume living is always better then not. But as DeepVisions stated, we all have our own perceptions.

edit on 21-12-2013 by Rosinitiate because: (no reason given)

This resonated for me....I thank you for it and wish you a happy holiday season. Living, for some, may not, in fact, be better. But dying may not offer any relief, either. But ultimately, no one is in the space to judge either, really, till they've lived that. And yet, I would wish NO ONE to ever live such a thing, EVER....
Tetra

reply to post by Itisnowagain


I guess you could say, I am that, I am.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


As a person who believes in the after-life, I have no problem with your statement. But that doesn't mean I want to die, or want anyone else to die. And it also irks me how we spend so much time worrying about what everyone around us is doing that we allow our own lives to pass us by.

And there's another thing, life just passing us by. For the last (going on) fourteen years, I've merely existed. I've not lived, except for maybe a few months before and after my child was born. That's the only positive in my life.

I've spent the majority of ten + years alone. Partly due to the sheer hell I went through with my ex and partly due to my PTSD after my service. I can't partake in daily life, much less interact with others. (Beyond what you see here on the forum.) I've been back stabbed, cheated on, lied to, threatened almost daily, and I've contemplated suicide a few times. (Again, the only thing that has held me back is my child.) And when a person can no longer live a regular life such as myself, does it really matter if one takes the easy way out? (Suicide)

I moved to Europe, big mistake. And since that day, it feels like someone pressed a "pause" button on the movie of my life and forgot to come back. I want to live, I want friends, I want to make a good future for my child. But sometimes, I think that our lives may be nothing more than an example of how not to live yours.

Don't know if this helped your thread or not, but it's early Christmas and I haven't slept yet.