Marshall Cabinet Question: Changing speaker in new cabinet

I have a question for people familiar with guitar amplifier cabinets and issues related to changing speakers in them.

I want to buy a new Marshall 1936 2X12 cabinet. This cab comes with 2 Celestion G12T-75 speakers as standard. I don't really like this speaker that much for the kind of music I intend to play. My idea is to have the shop remove one of the G12T-75 speakers and replace it with a Celestion Vintage 30 speaker of the same impedance.

The Vintage 30 has nice mids and the G12T-75 has a "scooped" sound. I thought the two speakers would work together to give me quite a balanced sound that could be miked in creative ways to get different sounds, accenting one or the other speaker.

I phoned the service department at a large music equipment store here in Toronto. I won't mention its name but it is a big outfit with a chain of stores.

The response to my question, "Can this be done by the shop?" was, "Yes we can do it but I wouldn't recommend it."

The tech went on to say that he would just get two new speakers because when you do this one speaker tends to work harder than the other and will need to be replaced anyway.

My spider senses started to tingle. My question was based on the premise that I would be buying a new Marshall 1936 cabinet in which both G12T-75s would be new and that replacing one of those speakers with a Vintage 30 speaker of the same impedance would mean that my new cabinet would have two new speakers in it, of the same impedance. With that in mind his response made no sense to me.

Am I missing something because I'm just a dummy? Am I actually buying a cabinet from them that is sold as new but is actually a floor model that has been played for some time and therefore subject to the uneven "wearout" factor suggested by the tech?

Experienced people, please clue me in on this. Do I have to order from the factory to get what I want?

reply to post by ipsedixit


Sounds like you got a confused sound technician on the tele to me. If you were retrofitting a single new speaker into a used cab, technically that was sound advice. However if you're simply installing two newspeakers, regardless of the make, you should be fine. As long as the numbers all jive: I.E. resistance, wattage, etc.


EDIT: I would also clarify the condition of the cabinet before ordering it. Ask if it's a demo model, if its used, or if it's brand new. That way, there's no questions left floating around unanswered.

Rock on brother!!

reply to post by parad0x122

My understanding is that they only have one in stock, so based on your response I am assuming that the tech was talking about a demo model that has been played on the floor. Thanks for the info. Next time I talk to them I will ask more specific questions.

parad0x122
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

Sounds like you got a confused sound technician on the tele to me. If you were retrofitting a single new speaker into a used cab, technically that was sound advice. However if you're simply installing two newspeakers, regardless of the make, you should be fine. As long as the numbers all jive: I.E. resistance, wattage, etc.


EDIT: I would also clarify the condition of the cabinet before ordering it. Ask if it's a demo model, if its used, or if it's brand new. That way, there's no questions left floating around unanswered.

Rock on brother!!

edit on 20-12-2013 by parad0x122 because: additions

Yes it seems the word replace if used has put him on a different tack. Contact him again, and ask him again that it is two new speakers from two diferent models. RCF make some tremendous speakers, with filters etc to carry a variety of sound through the range from bass to treble within each speaker.

I can vouch for Orange cabinets too....back when I played on my first one about 10 years ago, they were still kind of an Indie' company, but MAN did those puppies scream.

What kind of guitar do you play on, OP? Style of music?

(not trying to de-rail, honestly just curious)

reply to post by parad0x122

My main thing is writing music and around here I usually play acoustically and tend to noodle in a jazz vein. I am trying to improve my chops as a player all the time and one of my dreams has always been to have a Marshall half stack but in my situation a quarter stack is already way too much.

However the newest model Marshall amps have "volume attenuation" which means you can get the sound of the fully cranked amp at very low volume levels. I have one of those amps and would like to explore music in the rock vein or simply music that exploits the distorted Marshall sound in a non-rock context.

I'm really a sort of sonic prospector rather than a performer. I don't favor any particular style and have written piano music in a classical vein as well as pop songs and things that might be the light sort of stuff you would hear on a TV program.

I just like to find new interesting sounds and don't care about the format.

reply to post by smurfy

I used to work in a place where a lot of bands played and I was always blown away by the sound of Marshall cabinets although I know that other companies are producing very good cabinets now, but I have a thing for the Marshall brand.

I wish Marshall would ship their cabinets without speakers and let the customer have them fitted to taste.

If I had my "money no object" choice I would have the 2X12 fitted with two Celestion Alnico Golds but those are very expensive speakers.

This thread makes me swoon for a good, old-fashioned, hardcore metal breakdown.

Man do I wish I still played like I used to! OP, you should keep us posted with your project, maybe some pics whenever you decide what to do?

Personally, I'd love to hear your musical experiments, all music is good music, as long as it's played from the heart! Any chance we'll get to hear some MP3's in the future?


EDIT: Oh, and SnF, for a fellow musician!

parad0x122
This thread makes me swoon for a good, old-fashioned, hardcore metal breakdown.

Man do I wish I still played like I used to! OP, you should keep us posted with your project, maybe some pics whenever you decide what to do?

I might post a picture of the rig when it is finally set up.

Personally, I'd love to hear your musical experiments, all music is good music, as long as it's played from the heart! Any chance we'll get to hear some MP3's in the future?

I'm no great shakes as a guitar player and I tend to get very nervous when recording. I usually just learn the song well enough to get a "warts and all" recording of it video taped for YouTube. Believe me, I suck as a player but I think I have some good ideas as a writer of music. When I started to write on the noteflight.com software, which can be played by computer, I could do more difficult stuff and get a reasonable YouTube performance of the piece.

I haven't given the link to my YouTube channel because I have been quite outspoken on political issues in other forums on ATS and frankly, I don't want to out myself as "that guy".

If I decide to finally make that connection here, I'll send you a U2U with the link to my channel.

You say you are no great guitarist yet you are concerned about tiny variations in speaker sound. I would suggest honing your skills as a guitarist before worrying about such trivia. Don't become the guy with all the tools with no skill. Hendrix could play an Encore through a 15 WAT Horner amp and still sound better than 99% of guitarists.

ipsedixit
reply to post by smurfy

 

I used to work in a place where a lot of bands played and I was always blown away by the sound of Marshall cabinets although I know that other companies are producing very good cabinets now, but I have a thing for the Marshall brand.

I wish Marshall would ship their cabinets without speakers and let the customer have them fitted to taste.

If I had my "money no object" choice I would have the 2X12 fitted with two Celestion Alnico Golds but those are very expensive speakers.

As far as I recall VOX also used Celestions including Alnico, with the preference for UK models as opposed to Chinese. That could be hair-splitting though. BTW I forgot to mention that the RCF's are Italian made, superb but quite expensive too.

reply to post by ipsedixit


First one for you? You want the Marshall without its patented factory sound? So you don't like the sound but want everyone to see the name MARSHALL on stage? So its an image thing with you, rt? Ive probably had over 20-or close to 30 since 1968. Currently, I use 2 Super 100's with 2 double stacks, and the smaller Marshall 100 w 2X12 for portability.

I mix these up in any combinations lg and small based on need. With my Digitech FX pedal, I dial up any amp sound and pickup +cab combination. So. straight famous Marshall sound....or FX added...or not. However I feel.

Can you modify any piece of equip? Yes. Of course. I have, and still do. My question is for you...why? I'd ask why the name and not the sound? After-all. Most Marshall owners use them for the sound.

Please don't explain WHY you don't want to. Its obvious. You want the name...not the sound the Who, Hendrix and a zillion others made famous.

PS. Good luck. Go ahead. There are no rules....buy a pedal. And anyone can change a spkr themselves if they want to. Don't PAY to have it done!

mysterioustranger
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

First one for you? You want the Marshall without its patented factory sound? So you don't like the sound but want everyone to see the name MARSHALL on stage?

Marshall itself has used different speakers in different issues of its cabinets. I like the contribution that the cabinet makes to the Marshall sound. I'm not a sound engineer, but Marshall cabinets have been something noticeable to me even when I didn't know what speakers were in them.

I'm sure other companies make good cabinets, but I never noticed the quality the way I did with Marshalls.

The G12T-75 is used a lot but it is only one in a line of Celestion speakers. One can choose another speaker to get a different "voice" and still be within the "Marshall" gamut of sound, so to speak.

reply to post by ipsedixit


Sorry bud but the Amp is what determines the sound of the speakers. I'm a little confused as to why you seem concerned about changing out celestion speakers when you concede you're not much of a guitarist.

CallYourBluff
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

Sorry bud but the Amp is what determines the sound of the speakers.

You should write a note to Celestion and tell them that they don't know what they are doing and don't really have to make all those different sounding speakers.

I'm a little confused as to why you seem concerned about changing out celestial speakers when you concede you're not much of a guitarist.

I'm picky about the tone of my crappy playing. I can't control the guitar so I"m trying to get great sound from another angle. Understand now?

ipsedixit

CallYourBluff
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

Sorry bud but the Amp is what determines the sound of the speakers.

You should write a note to Celestion and tell them that they don't know what they are doing and don't really have to make all those different sounding speakers.

I'm a little confused as to why you seem concerned about changing out celestial speakers when you concede you're not much of a guitarist.

I'm picky about the tone of my crappy playing. I can't control the guitar so I"m trying to get great sound from another angle. Understand now?

edit on 20-12-2013 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)

I guess that's why Marshall continue to release a 1960's Cab.

I think maybe guitar isn't for you. Maybe you should start singing and use auto tune.

reply to post by ipsedixit


I know Ive changed speakers a zillion times myself. As a Marshall owner...I put my Strat and other axes thru them, and a stack of keys as well thru a Berringer mixer. I play everything from slide to blues to rock to jazz, country and easy listening pop with them.

Although the darn beasts are some of the heaviest things to move around, they serve their purpose. Loud when you want them...(their purpose)... and quieter when needed. I don't see any real point in buying any Marshall and modifying its sound. Cheap FX pedals and pedal boards and amps themselves have amp simulaters and spkr and pickup configurations to choose from.

I want to add I use at times stereo cab combinations. 1 stage lt, 1 stage right and 1 cab..or two behind me or either side of the drummer. Sometimes 2 heads, 2 cabs in stereo (my keys are stereo), other times the small Marshall 100 2X12 single amp...and sometimes a cab or 2 paired with it.

In the studio...and Ive been in the studios around the world since I first started recording at Motown Studio B here in Detroit in the early 70's...Ive used the most basic Marshall setups ie: head and 1-2 cabs both direct or miked and to the board or miked only...or just the plain head-line-out to the mixer in the studio with NO Marshall cabs at all.

I guess my point is if you go a buy a brand new Ferarri...why would you put a Corvette engine in it? No one would. Unless you want everyone to see the name on the outside FERARRI.

Marshall Amplification created nearly 50 years ago, is something guitarists sometimes wait a lifetime to own, and is known as prestigious and efficient and loud....and certainly not for the just the NAMEPLATE.

One can do what they want...but my professional opinion is the owner will not even notice any discernible difference in sound changing a single spkr. 2 changed? Absolutely it will sound different...and maybe not like a Marshall anymore.

reply to post by mysterioustranger

Thanks for the response. I hear you.

I'm not a professional, but over the years I have acquired some nice equipment. I have a nice Fender Twin and a Super Champ and some nice guitars. I have wanted to get a Marshall set up for a long time and when I heard about the "volume attenuation" capability that is on their latest amps, I got one.

Getting a half stack (for my room) is just too over the top, so I thought a 2X12 would be fine since it approximates the situation with the Twin, which can be a very loud amp but since I love the clean tone of the Twin, I don't have to crank it up to distort the sound.

I'm not the first one to realize that the G12T-75 compliments the Vintage 30 in a nice way as the following video demonstrates, as well as showing the differences in the sound of these speakers.

I haven't decided what I am going to do. Anyway, thanks for the input.

reply to post by ipsedixit


Ive got the 2x12 Fender Twin clone as well, and many times Ive just used that as its got the same sound and power.

Once in awhile I use that and hook up 1 or 2 single 4x12 stacks to it as extension cabs, and place those opposite from me on stage and sound comes from both sides. With some delay, its panning effect is awesome.

I still think there would be no audible difference with 1 switched, but now with 2 or all 4 in a cab...there would be, as in replacing both in the 2x12, or all 4 in 4x12 stack.

It can be done...so good luck!

reply to post by mysterioustranger

In the video you'll notice that the Vintage 30 sounds louder. This is the same effect that you can hear in commercials on the radio. They sound "louder" but they are not. They are EQ'd to the mid range and hit the ear closer to the bull's eye and seem to be louder.

The G12T-75 has the classic "scooped" sound that you get when you voice chords on the low and high strings but skip the middle.

If you put the two speakers together you get a more complete sonic spectrum than you would with each separately. I know these things are matters of taste and ear, but when I heard different examples of tests of the two speakers, it jumped out at me.