PLEASE christians, watch an see for yourselves....

reply to post by schadenfreude

schadenfreude
I was pentecostal for 10-12 years, and I left over doctrinal issues.

IMO, the church i left basically said this: If you don't speak in tongues, you don't have the Holy Ghost, if you don't have the HG you're not saved.

Well, that’s just plain wrong…

1 Corinthians 12

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

The Holy Spirit distributes each gift as He sees fit, as described in 1 Corinthians 12:11. You could get one gift, two gifts, or three gifts etc… or all of them…

I myself have received the Holy Spirit, but I don’t have the gift of tongues. The Pentecostal church I went to many years ago, had many members who had received the Holy Spirit, some of whom didn’t have the gift of tongues either…

Not being able to speak in tongues does not mean you haven’t received the Holy Spirit, it simply means you/they have received another gift, instead of tongues…

- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

Well, that’s just plain wrong…

That is a common belief among fringe Pentecostals, the ones who border on being cultic. If you don't speak in tongues, the Holy Spirit is not in you, and you will not be saved. That's part of the reason, I presume, that linguists who have studied speaking in tongues have universally (so far as I've seen) found that it is gibberish and lacks the foundation and structure of language.

Show me someone who can't speak German or Chinese, but is able to clearly articulate the Gospel in those languages, and I'll believe that the miracle that the Apostles experienced at Pentecost has been duplicated. Otherwise, it's just someone babbling and someone else saying whatever they think the babbling might be.

reply to post by adjensen

adjensen
That is a common belief among fringe Pentecostals, the ones who border on being cultic. If you don't speak in tongues, the Holy Spirit is not in you, and you will not be saved.

Yes, those Pentecostal churches that teach that, are wrong IMO, and 1 Corinthians 12:11, clearly shows it…

I think there’s a tendency to get caught up in the charismatic aspects of speaking in tongues, because it’s an outward gift, that’s easy to see….

adjensen
That's part of the reason, I presume, that linguists who have studied speaking in tongues have universally (so far as I've seen) found that it is gibberish and lacks the foundation and structure of language.

Yes, this is true. The video I posted in my first post, states the same thing. Speaking in tongues has no structure, or possibly has a structure, unlike anything we know of.

The frontal lobe in the brain, is what everyone uses when speaking any type of language, as is well documented. The video I posted, along with a few other studies, shows that when speaking in tongues, the part of the brain that deals with emotion, gets activated, instead of the frontal lobe.

So if it is just gibberish, then it is clearly a very unusual phenomenon, which science has yet to explain.

adjensen
Show me someone who can't speak German or Chinese, but is able to clearly articulate the Gospel in those languages, and I'll believe that the miracle that the Apostles experienced at Pentecost has been duplicated.

Not sure if you saw my first post, but I stated that I believe there are 2 forms of speaking in tongues, which I believe can be shown in the scriptures…

Regarding the former type of tongue (Speaking other known languages) there is a theory, that this was only needed to spread Gods word, at the beginning of Christianity, and that it is a gift that is now no longer needed.

But I have read a few accounts, of people who have suddenly been able to miraculously speak, another foreign language, but to be honest, the cases are pretty rare.

The tongues where a person is speaking directly to God however, seem to be more widespread and increasing!

PS – Merry Christmas…

- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

Regarding the former type of tongue (Speaking other known languages) there is a theory, that this was only needed to spread Gods word, at the beginning of Christianity, and that it is a gift that is now no longer needed.

I would agree with this.

The tongues where a person is speaking directly to God however, seem to be more widespread and increasing!

Here's the problem that I have with this (beyond my belief that cultic Pentecostals fake the phenomenon, intentionally or not, because they're afraid not to have the "gift of the Spirit".) God has no need to communicate in this manner, so it seems weird that he would, and it opens the door for people to "speak for God", rather than God speaking to us. How many terrible acts have been done over the centuries because people thought "God told me to do this," even though we know full well that God would not tell someone to torture non-believers, like they did in the Inquisitions, or to blow up abortion clinics and murder doctors?

That's my concern. I think that, if God wants us to know something, we will be well aware of it directly, not through someone's "interpretation" of gibberish.

Merry Christmas to you and yours, as well!

adjensen
reply to post by hidingthistime

 

Pentecostals border on being cultic.

Some of their worship services are more like circuses, I don't know who that is supposed to appeal to. It says in scripture that not everyone receives these specific gifts, so it is ludicrous that people act crazy, just because they think that they need to, in order to prove that they've "received the gift of the Holy Spirit."

I personally believe those people want to feel special or be perceived as such. I was raised in a Pentecostal church. So I would like to think I understand it. I share your concerns. I believe they take the Bible too literal without interpreting it. My take on speaking in tongues is that they were other languages. It seems that when this was happening in the Bible they were preaching to foreign people. So why cant speaking in tongues mean speaking in other languages?

Wouldn't that be a miracle in itself? You never knew a language but because God wanted his message given to that people he gave you the gift of their language? Just my take on it. Recently I visited a Pentecostal church. One lady seemed to want to be heard over everyone in the church so she was singing in what they claim are 'tongues' very loudly. You could hear her over the band.

To me that is a cry for attention. Which the Bible is clearly against. IMHO we all have gifts but they are other things such as discernment.

reply to post by Pimpintology


Very well said and sooo true! Cry for attention, attempts to control and manipulate others etc.

and the original scriptures DO say speak in other LANGUAGES which make a lot more sense but they changed it to "tongues" to make it more mysterious, but God is not a God of confusion so their baloney is just that baloney that is not from God.