PLEASE christians, watch an see for yourselves....

reply to post by adjensen

...one of the shortest paths from Christianity to atheism is through Fundamentalism...

This should probably be a bumper sticker. lol. I wouldn't recommend fundamentalism if you want to be at peace with yourself, and with your faith.

adjensen
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

Speaking/singing in tounges to me, is just the brains expressing creativity when experiancing a high chi/light flow. The conciousness becomes a bit childish and plays around with sound and most times do not care if it makes any sense.

What I'm talking about is nonsense like this:

I consider "speaking in tongues" to be potentially valid, as it is referenced in the Bible (though I think 99% to 100% of it these days is just made up, there have been studies by linguists that have shown it is not anything but gibberish,) but the hitting each other in the face, running around in circles, screaming and knocking other people down is just ridiculous.

I've been to charismatic services (even charismatic Catholic Masses, believe it or not,) that were uplifting and engaging, but these people are just an embarrassment.

As long as they are symbiotic to each other I do not care at all if they look silly or not. Spirituality is supposed to be fun and make you feel connected. If this is not you cup of tea just ignore it.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Yes, just because to them "it is real" does not make it right! If they listen to their conscience, and studied Gods word, they would know that they are not only fooling themselves, but leading MANY astray with tier need to "look" like they are somehow "Special". In Gods eyes were are all they same, and only once per millenia, is their a prophet or special gift given, not on mass scale in the millions!

The gifts are still there like love, and empathy, and teaching etc, but the gifts of tongues means LANGUAGES, and knowing other languages, and those died out with the last apostles.

They are making a mockery of the faith and their presumptuousness leads too many astray and to bitterness. They are tools of Satan.

They need to concentrate on acts of kindness, forgiveness, and helping their neighbors instead of judging and placing them selves above others so falsely...

reply to post by Murgatroid



The book of acts is not done away with, it was different purposes for different times, as my post above says.

The miracles used through Moses were used for Pharaoh, and no one needs to use those now, the miracles of the disciples are no longer needed as a sign for the Jews.

Our "signs" in this day and age are them having "love" among them, and the fruits of the spirit, none of which include babbling like idiots in large groups.

Speaking in ( tongues) "languages" was just that, speaking IN TURN, in another language with a translator present. One or 2 at the most at a time, IN TURN, Not this mass hysteria.

They wish t edify THEMSELVES, not others. They are not showing LOVE among them, they are putting on a "showhy display" to try and edify themselves and look as if they are above others. BLASPHEMY!

DISRAELI
reply to post by hidingthistime

 

I don't watch speeches on video on principle, because they're much too time-intensive. If the words were down in writing, I could skim through them myself in a tenth of the time it takes somebody to read them. Twenty hours watching somebody talk on video is twenty hours taken away from your ability to get information from a variety of different places.

This is my own view of what the New Testament says on the subject.
Apart from Pentecost, our knowledge of "tongues" comes from a couple of chapters in 1 Corinthians (12 & 14) in which Paul criticises the practice- not because it is wrong, but because it gets misused.
His argument is that "tongues" are without value unless they are being interpreted, because without interpretation they're not communicating anything.
The observation that the man who speaks in tongues talks to God is part of the criticism. He is not saying that talking to God alone is a good reason for using tongues. His point is that the man who speaks in uninterpreted tongues may as well be talking to God alone, because nobody else can understand him.
He also suggests, based on a scripture reference, that the purpose of "tongues" is as a witness to unbelievers, that they are going to be judged. Which implies, if you think about it, that an assembly of believers is not really the right occasion.

So I think the New Testament attitude to "tongues" is not to reject them, but to ensure that they are kept in the right subordinate place.

Exactly! Awesome post, thank you.

reply to post by LittleByLittle

As long as they are symbiotic to each other I do not care at all if they look silly or not. Spirituality is supposed to be fun and make you feel connected. If this is not you cup of tea just ignore it.

Did you watch the video?

Hitting people in the face and knocking them down is "fun and makes you feel connected"?

Like I said, I have nothing against Charismatics, but that "worship service" was out and out insane. It made a mockery of worship, far more than anything else.

reply to post by hidingthistime


Tongues is simply the ability, through the Holy Spirit, to talk to people who speak a different language while still speaking your own language. I never understood how and why people could consider speaking in jibberish a spiritual gift, especially when the Bible never says any such thing.

Here is a nice study telling the truth about speaking in tongues: www.remnantofgod.org...

Acts 2:1-12, "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?"

hidingthistime
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

The gifts are still there like love, and empathy, and teaching etc, but the gifts of tongues means LANGUAGES, and knowing other languages, and those died out with the last apostles.

Does that not depend on what information they receive from god from the third eye.

There is nothing wrong with playing like children and trying to use the ability that god has put in them that exists in the unconscious mind. I cannot see if these people are acting consciously or trying to get to their unconscious self.

Just because they might be weak in their abilities do not mean they should not train them so that they go stronger.

For me you are more interested in a garment of what christianity should be from your point of view, than people seeking god in their own way and finding god in their own way. The ones who seek in their own way will reach the highest potential of understanding that is possible for them.

adjensen
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

As long as they are symbiotic to each other I do not care at all if they look silly or not. Spirituality is supposed to be fun and make you feel connected. If this is not you cup of tea just ignore it.

Did you watch the video?

Hitting people in the face and knocking them down is "fun and makes you feel connected"?

Like I said, I have nothing against Charismatics, but that "worship service" was out and out insane. It made a mockery of worship, far more than anything else.

You mean the lady that touches the forehead and head? Ohh came on. I cannot see any wish for that lady to harm anyone. It is not for me to judge since I am not apart of the experience. If it works for them then let them do it. It might make a mockery of your view on how worship should be, but then god has many ways to reach a soul.

For me it is Reiki, synchronicity and sound therapy.

Klassified
reply to post by adjensen

 

...one of the shortest paths from Christianity to atheism is through Fundamentalism...

This should probably be a bumper sticker. lol. I wouldn't recommend fundamentalism if you want to be at peace with yourself, and with your faith.

Been there done that got the t-shirt.

Raised by Pentecostal mother, and atheist father.

Recipe for an atheist, whole reason I studied theology was to be able to tear apart the beliefs of the penticostals I had grown up seeing.


I found my faith in spite of my experince growing up, took a confluence of events that I could only ascribe to divine intervention.

It is my belief that Penticostals type sects exist to purposefully distort the faith.

reply to post by benrl

I found my faith in spite of my experince growing up, took a confluence of events that I could only ascribe to divine intervention.

It is my belief that Penticostals type sects exist to purposefully distort the faith.

I experienced the same thing as well...

Once you experience the true POWER of God, believing in atheism no longer works.

People are so confused about God because religion has lied to them.

The Christian Churches have been the targets of infiltration since the first ones started to form.

The easiest way to bring a house down is to discredit it from within.

That is what these people have been doing to many religions since the beginning of time.

Infiltration of the Church is the reason WHY it bares so little resemblance at all to the early Church.

"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati..."

The Real Conspiracy the Jesuit infiltration of Christianity

I am convinced that many Fundamental Baptist churches are NOW pastored by Jesuits and Opus Dei agents. Many deacons and Sunday School teachers are now inside the Baptist movement teaching doctrines of Rome. You need to read the following articles so that you can watch for the signs that you too have an hireling planted in your church by the Vatican.

LINK

"90% of the Southern Baptist hierarchy are Freemasons. There is also a high percentage of Christian leadership from the Lutheran and United Methodist churches are Masons. This would explain why Ecumenism has spread so easily. ...the goal is to infiltrate it with their compromising philosophies and attempt to destroy the Church from within."

Infiltration of Freemasonry

What if I were to tell you, that there is a vast Satanic conspiracy to deceive the masses of every society on earth? What if I were to tell you that the top leaders of the world’s religions were in league with the Devil? Would you think I’m crazy? I would! Yet, the truth is stranger than fiction! You have been lied to my friend. Few people in the world today are aware of just how much Satan has infiltrated organized religion. Link

"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati to enslave and brainwash society. In essence, religion was the first form of mind control. The indoctrination of the masses by a "Trojan Horse" false religion has allowed the Illuminati to take control and work in secret for many, many years." Link

The Vatican has infiltrated, or neutered and spayed, virtually every denomination and organization in Christendom. Various means have been used, but Opus Dei has played a major role in this.

Virtually 100% of the world's seminaries are in the pocket of the Roman Whore in that they use her Bible via the Alexandrian Gnostic Greek texts.

I am fully persuaded that Opus Dei and the Jesuits have already planted many of their agents in Baptist and Fundamental churches and schools.

I am convinced that many Fundamental Baptist churches are NOW pastored by Jesuits and Opus Dei agents. Many deacons and Sunday School teachers are now inside the Baptist movement teaching doctrines of Rome. You need to read the following articles so that you can watch for the signs that you too have an hireling planted in your church by the Vatican.

OPUS DEI-- War on Protestantism

"Today the religions of the world remain a major tool of the Illuminati agenda. They maintain the climate of unquestioning, unthinking, ignorance, and their pseudo-morality provides a veil of hypocrisy, behind which the most sickening abuse of children can be hidden."

"Some of the most famous church "leaders" and evangelists on the planet are Illuminati operatives who use religion to manipulate and brain-wash their followers while engaging in Satanic rituals that beggar belief."

"But the mass of unthinking followers in any religion are merely the fodder and the screen behind which the real business goes on." Link

reply to post by Murgatroid


Absolutely,

After what I experienced there was only one choice for me, to continue to be an atheist would of been to deny what was right in front of me.

I am not a Christian because it makes logical sense or aligns with my education, I am a Christian because I experienced something's that only led me to believe that yes there was a god, and yes he cares about me.

I can not even begin to describe the world shattering I experienced at having everything I thought I knew turned on its head.

I once was the worst persecutor of theist you could find, but I had my own road to Damascus experience that changed that.

I take the journey I have traveled, including the atheist times as all part of gods plan for me.

It has allowed me to see things from a perspective that I wouldn't have it I had been only one or the other (atheist or theist).

Things like many of the problems the world has with Christians comes from the distortion and purposeful corruption of Christian sects that have risen to prominence through false doctrines.

Much of which I feel comes from the Protestant reformation not going far enough from the Roman Catholic doctrine.

OP-I think you are forgetting there are ATS members that are Jewish, Muslim, Buddists...you name it. I know youre going to say they are plain wrong, will burn in hell, and that you arent addressing them. But you are.

You can only spout your "version" of what you THINK its all about. Speaking in tongues, handling snakes and drinking stricnine(?)....may be different to your understanding...but I see in your replies that is where you pound out your Bible influences and 'interpretations", and you might as well be spewing fire.

Why do I say that? Because, that not only exhibits a lack of understanding the nature of speaking in tongues, but a general lack of accepting others of other faiths and ways like kneeling and praying 5 times a day toward Mecca (its in Arabia).

Tolerance and acceptence are powerful tools to being a positive Christian and compassionate person. You dont have to believe or practice those differences.

It would perhaps get you a better response here and perspective...if you stood back and observed the difference in ways of devotion.

In that sense...you are wrong. All have value and purpose. You dont have to like them...but should at least respect them as valid to those practicing them. Spouting Christian Bible rhetoric only portrays one as small minded and not seeing the "world"-picture....take a step back.

The world and all that its in...is a big place with room for all. Even if you dont accept or believe in others relgious practices...you dont have to.

MS (Christian)

reply to post by mysterioustranger

I believe you are misunderstanding the question.
The question is not "Is this behaviour right or wrong, in absolute terms?" but "is this appropriate for Christians". In which case, it can only be assessed by Christian standards.

If the question was "Should these Muslims be drinking neat brandy?", it would have to be decided by reference to the Koran.
If the question was "Ought Buddhists to be eating pork?", it would have to be decided by reference to Buddhist writings.
Similarly the issue "Are these Christians doing what Christians ought to be doing?" requires the use of "Christian rhetoric" in looking for a standard of assessment.

reply to post by benrl


Happy for you . Have fun.

LittleByLittle

hidingthistime
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

The gifts are still there like love, and empathy, and teaching etc, but the gifts of tongues means LANGUAGES, and knowing other languages, and those died out with the last apostles.

Does that not depend on what information they receive from god from the third eye.

There is nothing wrong with playing like children and trying to use the ability that god has put in them that exists in the unconscious mind. I cannot see if these people are acting consciously or trying to get to their unconscious self.

Just because they might be weak in their abilities do not mean they should not train them so that they go stronger.

For me you are more interested in a garment of what christianity should be from your point of view, than people seeking god in their own way and finding god in their own way. The ones who seek in their own way will reach the highest potential of understanding that is possible for them.

Well, you are close, I am tired of people telling me I need to be "baptized" by THEM in the Holy spirit, GOD does that, he pours it out on his OWN, with the resulting fruits. (love, joy, peace, long suffering, etc)

Before studying the bible on my own, they were always gathering around and in their heads "Laying their hands on be" to baptize me in the holy spirit, well, the "tongues" never happened to me, so to THEM, I am the one "going to hell" (which means "grave" for humans in the original texts, not the abyss reserved for demons and Satan etc)

The only time I came close to any "tongue" was apparently, according to this guy, I was speaking in "Irish" to him at a bar of all places, and he never told me what I said.

Other than that NADDA!

Also, when they spoke in tongues it was something that HAPPENED to them, not something they taught each other etc.

Also, they ONLY unforgivable sin is blaspheming the holy spirit, well, wouldn't babbling and faking to speak gibberish be bordering n that? Would that not be a HUGE misrepresentation of the holy spirit when these people are actually translated as speaking obscenities etc, be bordering on that as well??

And all gifts are not for all people, not everyone is an eye and a foot and a hand and an ear etc.

It is not about ME it is about being VERY careful that they are not leading themselves to the point of no return by trying to "fit in" by faking something or by letting themselves be possessed and actually be speaking against God through some other spirit etc.

When most of their gobbledygook has been translated by linguists it is either meaningless gibberish, or straight up swearing and calling down God etc.

How does it bring glory to Jesus?? It does not, as I said, it is self edifying, and nothing more in most cases.

benrl

It is my belief that Penticostals type sects exist to purposefully distort the faith.

EXACTLY!

Religion reminds me of the movie "single white female".

The psycho moves in, wants to look like and BE the other person, then pumps everyone with flattery while destroying their lives and eventually trying to kill them and take their place! lol....

reply to post by Murgatroid



Awesome, links, that is exactly how I feel!

I have been searching all over since I was 18, and have found nothing but none sense all over the place, just been trying to follow the bible myself, but whenever I pic myself back up and look for fellowship, I run into the crazyness, and loose my joy until I untangle myself again...lol

reply to post by hidingthistime

hidingthistime
The gifts are still there like love, and empathy, and teaching etc, but the gifts of tongues means LANGUAGES, and knowing other languages , and those died out with the last apostles

Actually, this seems to be a common misconception. There are actually 2 forms of speaking in tongues, according to scripture IMO.

One, like you said above, is to do with speaking other languages, which was used primarily to help the early apostles communicate with other people, who spoke a different languages etc…

And is clearly mentioned in the verse below…

Corinthians 12:10
to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues.

But, there is another type of tongue, mentioned in, 1 Corinthians verse 14: which can’t be the same as the tongue above, because it’s described as a direct communication with God…

1 Corinthians 14:
For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

As you can see, the type of tongue described above, is one whereby a person speaks to God and not to people, and the point is clarified even further, by the line “no one understands them”…which means. it can’t be a person speaking a foreign language, otherwise someone would understand them etc…

The gift of interpretation of tongues is another important clue, to the truth of what I have outlined above. Because when a person speaks this unknown language, those with the “gift of interpretation”, can actually understand what’s being spoken…and of course, this is not a foreign language they are interpreting, as the language being spoken is not of any known foreign language.

I have actually witnessed people speaking in tongues and then having their words interpreted. The interpretation is usually a prophetic word for a person, for the church, or both…

And just too add… According to various scientific studies, when a person speaks in tongues, the emotional centres of their brains light up…check out the video below…




- JC

I was pentecostal for 10-12 years, and I left over doctrinal issues.

IMO, the church i left basically said this: If you don't speak in tongues, you don't have the Holy Ghost, if you don't have the HG you're not saved.

I fasted about this for several days b/c, again imo, they were worshiping the HG, and i had a problem with this b/c the bible says the HG points to the Lord Jesus, not to Himself, so to me this & the other seemed heretical.

Immediately, my hand went to the bible & pointed to (without my conscience choice) !st Cor. 12:27-31 & 1st Cor.14:22.

I had my answer, confronted my pastor. He could NOT justify those two verses of scripture, so I left that church & Pentecostalism.

I say all of that however, to say this: I only speak English (and poorly but for quite a while in my early twenties a word became discern-able in my (tongues) prayer language; Yeshua.

Which, is actually the Hebrew name for Jesus.

Take from that what you will.