PLEASE christians, watch an see for yourselves....

Please chritsians wacth the whole video, (and the other 19 later if you get a chance)

PLEASE this is something I have said and felt for 22 years....

When you speak in "tounges" I wanna CRY I am so embarrassed... You are driving people away from truth.

Don't pipe in saying that tounges are some "gift" etc, UNLESS you can watch the entire video, and in ORDER, show scripture by scripture, WITH scripture, how this is wrong.

PLEASE I am not meaning t offend, I am meaning to spread light on this to stop this madness.

reply to post by hidingthistime


Pentecostals border on being cultic.

Some of their worship services are more like circuses, I don't know who that is supposed to appeal to. It says in scripture that not everyone receives these specific gifts, so it is ludicrous that people act crazy, just because they think that they need to, in order to prove that they've "received the gift of the Holy Spirit."

reply to post by hidingthistime


I didn't watch the whole hour plus sermon, but I skimmed through it. It looks like the speaker mostly focuses on Acts and Pauline epistles. Too bad that the concept is so skewed.

I think Jesus explained the phenomena best,

Luke 12:11-12, "When they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say."
Luke 21:14-15, "Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist."

Speaking the language of angels is meaningless! Speaking some language that no one else understands is a sign of nothing!

Being surprised and awed by the words coming from your own mouth.......PRICELESS!

adjensen
reply to post by hidingthistime

 

Pentecostals border on being cultic.

Some of their worship services are more like circuses, I don't know who that is supposed to appeal to. It says in scripture that not everyone receives these specific gifts, so it is ludicrous that people act crazy, just because they think that they need to, in order to prove that they've "received the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Yes, and they make believers look like loonies, they drive peole away from God and not towards truth.... it tears me apart it is so bad.....

reply to post by windword


Yes! Meaningless babble is MEANINGLESS babble, it looks ridiculous and is only for the speaker to edify them self, it is lunacy, and NOT scriptural at ALL.

they babble, like "BaBBLE" Babylon the great! All a phoney show!

I agree it looks silly, but to them, it's 100% real and absolutely serious. My Father was Pentecostal for several years during a midlife crisis thing and I saw it pretty close through him. I'd been very interested by the Speaking in Tongues in particular. Anthropology also looked at it with some interesting comparisons to other cultures and ceremonies around the world.

I don't agree with their interpretation of what's happening when that occurs during services, but I have absolutely 0 question in my mind that they believe it's real and exactly what they say it is. Take it for what ya will.

It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000



I can't "take it for what it is".... it is falsehood and makes then look stupid, it excludes those who don't know better the honest people who aren't faking it, and wonder what is wrong with them when they don't do, or the ones not faking it could have some wrong spirit, and be swearing like a trucker etc....

I can't take it for what it is if they aren't meant to do it, it is like saying "a little cheating" is ok for your marriage, or a little lying, or stealing, it is NOT good for you, and it is horrendous for unbelievers, and they need to repent of this fake show!

Speaking in tongues makes them look stupid?

and not the believing in sky wizards who watch over them and love them and wait for them up in fluffy cloud land?



It's all stupid.

But for each mind there is reason... and who am I to say that what soothes them is wrong. It's rather mean to tell children off for waiting up for santa.

reply to post by hidingthistime

I can't take it for what it is if they aren't meant to do it, it is like saying "a little cheating" is ok for your marriage, or a little lying, or stealing, it is NOT good for you, and it is horrendous for unbelievers, and they need to repent of this fake show!

It is fake in your perception and opinion. That's a fair thing and we all have the right to ours. I'm simply relaying what I believe and understand on this. I've watched this directly, 1st person. Not on a Youtube or from a news story. It's an interesting experience to see it in person.

Now, again, I don't agree with them on what they honestly and sincerely perceive they are experiencing. I personally think it's something quite different...but out of respect for how deeply they believe it, I tend to keep that to myself. After all, challenging people's deep personal belief system as non-existent or fantasy usually accomplishes little but generating hard feelings and personal issues, especially in real life.

At least, that has been my experience from both sides of it.

Christianity without the supernatural is just religion. The Bible tells me so.

John MacArthur's "religion" does NOT agree with the book of acts. PERIOD...

For that reason ALONE, John MacArthur has absolutely no credibility whatsoever...

Over the last seven years, I've traveled the world searching for the "more" of God. I have seen some of the best that charismatic Christianity has to offer as well as some of the worst. Much has already been written about your overgeneralizations and straw man arguments you make against the charismatic movement...

You're right. There are many people, many charismatics and Pentecostals who are about as whacky and goofy as you have described them. I have watched leaders stretch the truth from the stage to the point where I was certain it would snap. I've seen it all, Mr. MacArthur, the whole messy, ugly, unbiblical underbelly of the charismatic movement.

Because that isn't all I have seen. I have seen those same ministers caring for orphans and widows. I have seen them kiss the hands of lepers. I have sat with them in the backs of vans and trains and planes as they've poured out their hearts to me and explained why they do what they do—how Jesus touched them in such a radical way that they can never go back; they can never be the same again. I have looked into their eyes and have seen the love of Christ pouring out.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while you have discounted an entire move of God because you have seen some of the worst it has to offer, there is so much more that you haven't seen that completely overshadows and outshines even the craziest charismaniac out there. We are members of one family, Mr. MacArthur, and I don't know about yours, but my family is messy and complicated and beautiful and strange all at the same time.

John MacArthur, You Are Fighting Against God

John MacArthur said that his church was not in particular danger from infiltrating heresy. This paper will show that a dangerous heresy has infiltrated his church; a heresy known generally as the church growth movement. And this paper will show that this movement, being backed by globalists and being used to fulfill their one-world agenda, is now manipulating GCC into that same agenda.

I have made a public apology too everyone I told that MacArthur is legitimate. I am very very sorry for this. I trusted MacArthur and I was deceived and I led others to believe he was ok. Every bit of credibility I gave John MacArthur I retract. I did not understand the doctrine of Calvinism at the time, now I do.

John MacArthur – Transformation of Grace Community Church

John MacArthur's Damning Doctrine

John Mac Arthur denies the blood of Jesus

John Macarthur's Spiritual Mentor was a Jewish rabbi

John Macarthur's Father's Involvement at the Highest Level of the World Ecumenical Movement

John Macarthur's Church's Principal Financier was/is a Governor of The Council for National Policy: A CFR front

MacArthur is teaching damnable doctrines and needs to be exposed for the false teacher he is...

John Macarthur Exposed

Good post. Lets talk about the Gift of Tongues first.

What Busenitz is mainly speaking out against is not tongues, but rather something called prayer language. This practice cannot be supported by Scripture. Tongues, which Busenitz pointed out, is the miraculous ability to speak in a language unknown to the speaker, but at least known somewhere on Earth.

The English word “another” appears eight times in 1 Cor. 12:8-10, but in the Greek two different words are used. One means another of the same kind (allos) and the other means another of a different kind (heteros).

Using the literal Greek meanings, the two verses would read like this.

“To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another (of the same kind) the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another (of a different kind than those given wisdom and knowledge) faith by the same Spirit, to another (same kind as faith) gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another (same kind as faith) miraculous powers, to another (same kind as faith) prophecy, to another (same kind as faith) distinguishing between spirits, to another (of a different kind than either previous group) speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another (same kind as tongues)the interpretation of tongues.

The way these words are used makes it seem like Paul separated believers and their gifts into three groups. The first group gets wisdom and knowledge; the second group includes faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, and discernment; and the third has tongues and interpretation.

Spiritual Gifts

Busenitz says that healing, prophecy, and tongues are completely gone. Yet, I never saw him quote Scripture that stated the Spiritual gifts had left the Church.

I know I heard him mentioning being able to discern the truth, which as you can see is a gift grouped with prophecy, and faith is also grouped with prophecy and I know many people with that gift. I believe that believers are still capable of receiving those, how ever I also believe that they require an extraordinary amount of faith and trust in God to be blessed with them.

1 Cor. 14
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

1 Cor. 14
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

If the Spiritual Gift of Prophecy is gone, why are we told to desire it? Paul is saying to desire the greater gifts, because they do more for the Church(Body of Christ), but why would the Bible tell us to desire the gift of prophecy and healing and miracles if we were no longer capable of receiving them? Notice he discredits those who seek the gift of tongues to prove how holy they are. The gift of tongues would be worthless with out someone with the gift of interpretation, because otherwise the gift is not edifying the Church. However, that does not mean the gift is thrown out of the body all together. I do, however, agree that a prophet of God must reveal a revelation with 100% accuracy.


Why should we be able to be bestowed with these Gifts?

1 Cor. 12 says that all the gifts are bestowed by the same Spirit, which is the Spirit of God(Holy Spirit).

Ephesians 1
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

The Holy Spirit is sealed within all believers, and God chooses the gifts to bestow upon us(1 Cor. 12:18), and who are you or Busenitz to limit God on what he can do for his Church and how he does it.

I agree with a lot of what was said in the video, but I believe you are misinterpreting the Bible if you believe those gifts are no longer possible.

reply to post by hidingthistime

I don't watch speeches on video on principle, because they're much too time-intensive. If the words were down in writing, I could skim through them myself in a tenth of the time it takes somebody to read them. Twenty hours watching somebody talk on video is twenty hours taken away from your ability to get information from a variety of different places.

This is my own view of what the New Testament says on the subject.
Apart from Pentecost, our knowledge of "tongues" comes from a couple of chapters in 1 Corinthians (12 & 14) in which Paul criticises the practice- not because it is wrong, but because it gets misused.
His argument is that "tongues" are without value unless they are being interpreted, because without interpretation they're not communicating anything.
The observation that the man who speaks in tongues talks to God is part of the criticism. He is not saying that talking to God alone is a good reason for using tongues. His point is that the man who speaks in uninterpreted tongues may as well be talking to God alone, because nobody else can understand him.
He also suggests, based on a scripture reference, that the purpose of "tongues" is as a witness to unbelievers, that they are going to be judged. Which implies, if you think about it, that an assembly of believers is not really the right occasion.

So I think the New Testament attitude to "tongues" is not to reject them, but to ensure that they are kept in the right subordinate place.

imo glossolalia is alot like Japanese kabuki...

alot of people may not understand it but the audience it is aimed at is different, but if there is a fault in it we have the playwrights to correct the next performance.

reply to post by hidingthistime


Thanks OP ...Although I studied the subject years ago and came to the same conclusions as the teacher in the vid . I could never understand why some would believe this kind of doctrine . I was invited to a bible study one night at a small church and the pastor was teaching about tongues and was saying things that was bothering me to the point where I left the room and prayed ...When I returned to my seat I opened my bible and it opened up at 1Cor.14 ...I read it and was surprised that it was talking about the gifts ... I waited and asked the pastor if I could read from my bible and he agreed ....After reading word for word that chapter 1/2 of the people there got angry at me ....One guy said to me ,well don't you believe in tongues ? My reply was well sure I just read about them out of the bible ...

I guess the lesson to me at that time was that it's sometimes very important to read the verses before and after a sentence to get a context to what is being said . Oh and that pastor was a charleton and scammer as I found out years later . thanks again for the vid ,it's always good to have a refresher on the word of God

ps. Op if you recall and I cant off the top of my head remember where but it's in one of the Gospels ..When the Lord sent the 12 out and gave them power to heal and stuff when they came back they came across others that were doing the same as they had done ...When they brought it up to the Lord ,His reply was to leave them alone .They had wanted to forbid them ...I guess it goes along with the story of the wheat and the tares ...peace

I don't have an opinion on 'speaking in tongues'. Maybe it's authentic. Maybe it's not.
But I don't have time to watch that whole video. Sorry.

What I think is a crock is the 'Toronto Blessing'. .... that ceaseless idiotic laughing.
I dont know if that laughing is considered part of the 'speaking in tongues' or not.
But .. YIKES!

www.youtube.com...

like this?



LMAO!!!

adjensen
reply to post by hidingthistime

 

Pentecostals border on being cultic.

Some of their worship services are more like circuses, I don't know who that is supposed to appeal to. It says in scripture that not everyone receives these specific gifts, so it is ludicrous that people act crazy, just because they think that they need to, in order to prove that they've "received the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Speaking/singing in tounges to me, is just the brains expressing creativity when experiancing a high chi/light flow. The conciousness becomes a bit childish and plays around with sound and most times do not care if it makes any sense. Sometimes there might be a synchronious event and the person experiancing it is really saying something useful but usually it is not important as a message but important for the fun of it.

reply to post by LittleByLittle

Speaking/singing in tounges to me, is just the brains expressing creativity when experiancing a high chi/light flow. The conciousness becomes a bit childish and plays around with sound and most times do not care if it makes any sense.

What I'm talking about is nonsense like this:
I consider "speaking in tongues" to be potentially valid, as it is referenced in the Bible (though I think 99% to 100% of it these days is just made up, there have been studies by linguists that have shown it is not anything but gibberish,) but the hitting each other in the face, running around in circles, screaming and knocking other people down is just ridiculous.

I've been to charismatic services (even charismatic Catholic Masses, believe it or not,) that were uplifting and engaging, but these people are just an embarrassment.

reply to post by hidingthistime

OP. I used to be an elder in one of those churches where the "gift of tongues" was accepted and used on occasion. I don't see it as any more crazy than many other things Christianity believes. You think that's what drives people away from the church and Christianity? Hardly.

What drives people from the church, is fanaticism, hypocrisy, proselytizing tactics, and sectarianism in its many forms throughout the Christian world.
What drives people from the church is giving someone a bible, when what they need is tangible help, such as food, clothing, and a warm place to sleep.
What drives people away is the doctrine of eternal damnation because you don't believe like we do.

The list could go on and on. Tongues are just one of many points of contention among the sects of Christianity. And every sect is right according to the bible. Just ask them. The others are deceived, and some Christians are even going to hell for their "unbiblical" doctrines.

Christianity, just like the secular world, is a kingdom divided against itself. And you know what Jesus had to say about that.

reply to post by Klassified

What drives people away is the doctrine of eternal damnation because you don't believe like we do.

I agree with you, Klass, though for me, it was one of the things that drove me to the Catholic Church, which does not preach that doctrine, as opposed to driving me out of the faith entirely.

I think that one of the shortest paths from Christianity to atheism is through Fundamentalism, because once one starts to see inconsistencies and doubts, the response is all too often "if you don't agree with literalism, you're going to hell," instead of saying, "okay, that's fine, you travel your path and I'll travel mine."

The Bible is clear -- it's "believe in Christ for salvation", not "believe in young Earth creationism, a flood with an ark and that Joshua made the sun stand still for salvation."