Colorado's Masterpiece Cakeshop Must Serve Gay Couples Despite Owner's Religious Beliefs, Judge Ru

theantediluvian


What? Holy s---. "Uppity?" Is that anything like those "uppity negroes" who didn't want to be treated like second class citizens?

I find it appalling as a black man, the gays using us as their spring board..
Like their fight is just as important as Rosa Parks REFUSING to give up her seat..

It totally devalues the legitimate concerns of their time.

There is no comparison..

theantediluvian
Who taught it? Professor Josef Mengele?

It may suprise you but there is more to genetics than learning about so called "gay" genes.

Its a vast subject.

Not everything is about gays and It was not high on the prioritys of genetical research or things to learn.

starfoxxx

theantediluvian
What? Holy s---. "Uppity?" Is that anything like those "uppity negroes" who didn't want to be treated like second class citizens?

I find it appalling as a black man, the gays using us as their spring board..
Like their fight is just as important as Rosa Parks REFUSING to give up her seat..

I totally devalues the legitimate concerns of the time

There is no comparison..

I find it appalling as a member of a minority group you're unable to wrap your head around the need to protect equal access to public accommodations for everyone. I guess you're insinuating that I'm gay? No, I'm not gay--I'm not black either, but I would fight tooth and nail to keep somebody from making you sit in the back of the bus based on your skin color.

starfoxxx

theantediluvian


What? Holy s---. "Uppity?" Is that anything like those "uppity negroes" who didn't want to be treated like second class citizens?

I find it appalling as a black man, the gays using us as their spring board..
Like their fight is just as important as Rosa Parks REFUSING to give up her seat..

It totally devalues the legitimate concerns of their time.

There is no comparison..

edit on 7-12-2013 by starfoxxx because: (no reason given)

Let me ask this....

How powerful and righteous did you just feel calling your fellow humans 'gays'?
Hmm?
I'm pretty sure that's the same feeling a white man in the south circa 1960 had using the word 'n*ggers'.

Same sh*t..different day as far as I am concerned.

Denying ignorance starts at home.


Ro

theantediluvian


Using the curtails of a legitimate discrimination like a black reserving the right to not serve white or vica versa.. The black right fight was FAR more important then the gays..
Riding that train on the back of blacks to further your own political agenda is WRONG

No offense to anyone but I don't agree with the judges decision.

I believe its your business, you have the right to refuse service to anyone you don't want to serve. Second, if someone refuses someone else service; go open up your own service or go to a private/individual who chooses to serve your needs.

But this all ties into what Obama said really and the leftist belief that even though it may be your business that you worked hard to build and make successful - You Didn't Build That.

How dare you really think you have any right once you start it to make any decisions about how you will conduct it? We all own that business and will tell you whom you will and will not serve and how.

The lesson is don't go into business if you may not want to extend a service to someone who will walk through your door someday for any reason. Make sure you think about it and then think about how much you can trust your fellow citizens to respect you.

reply to post by beezzer


Does that go for Muslims too beezer? Or just the Christians?

If a Muslim does something you don't like, but it's in their religion - do you stand up for their right to do it? Or, do you say - they must abide by the laws of the land? The laws of the land say - you can't discriminate. Is this wrong then - or just wrong sometimes, for some people?

I'll stand up for anyone's rights - so long as their rights don't trample on the rights of someone else

This is one of those situations - isn't it? They make cakes - a gay couple orders a cake - they're denied a cake because they're gay. Now - does it say in the bible that they should treat gay people differently from everyone else - or does it say they should love his neighbor?

Or does it even matter? If (if) the bible says gay people are evil - and that you have the right to shun them - should that still hold true in a country where not everybody believes the same thing?

It's very confusing - the whole thing - isn't it? Especially to those of us who aren't particularly religious

We're trying to have a secular society. I know not everyone sees it that way

So, Beez - if they claimed that they thought black people were not really human - and so they didn't want to make them a cake - they have that right?

Suppose they said they won't make cakes for Jews?

How far do we want to take this? What kind of world do you want to live in?

beezzer
Let me turn this around for those who are for this.

When would any of you, defend the religious rights of someone?

What would it take for any of you to defend the religious rights of a person?

I'd defend the religious rights of an individual to the hilt, within the law - bearing in mind the law is pretty free and easy for individuals. I'm not religious myself, but I respect faith.

But when operating as a business dealing with the general public, I'd advise the individual to be careful what they choose to do if they feel unable to provide certain services during the general remit of their work.

There's two seperate groups of rights at work here.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


But the crux is - were they denied the cake because they were gay or because the religious beliefs of the owner didn't allow him or her to participate in a gay wedding? There is a difference.

I can sell a gay person cakes all day, but ask me to make one celebrating a ceremony I don't believe exists and is in violation of my conscience, and it's another story.

Or look at it this way - You have a regular customer who is 60 or so, and one day he comes in asking you to make a cake celebrating his wedding. The lucky bride will be a 10-year-old girl. Should you be forced to make that cake?

starfoxxx
theantediluvian


Using the curtails of a legitimate discrimination like a black reserving the right to not serve white or vica versa.. The black right fight was FAR more important then the gays..
Riding that train on the back of blacks to further your own political agenda is WRONG

edit on 7-12-2013 by starfoxxx because: (no reason given)

Typical bigot mentality. Your rights are more important than anyone else's. I'm not gay, but if the agenda is equality for everyone, sign me up anyway.

Spiramirabilis
reply to post by beezzer

 

Does that go for Muslims too beezer? Or just the Christians?

Everyone.

If a Muslim does something you don't like, but it's in their religion - do you stand up for their right to do it? Or, do you say - they must abide by the laws of the land? The laws of the land say - you can't discriminate. Is this wrong then - or just wrong sometimes, for some people?

I stand for individual freedoms regardless of their religious beliefs.

I'll stand up for anyone's rights - so long as their rights don't trample on the rights of someone else

Except you won't stand up for the rights of the person who owns the bakery.

This is one of those situations - isn't it? They make cakes - a gay couple orders a cake - they're denied a cake because they're gay. Now - does it say in the bible that they should treat gay people differently from everyone else - or does it say they should love his neighbor?

Are you going to interpret the bible for them?

Or does it even matter? If (if) the bible says gay people are evil - and that you have the right to shun them - should that still hold true in a country where not everybody believes the same thing?

Again, individual interpretations.

It's very confusing - the whole thing - isn't it? Especially to those of us who aren't particularly religious

We're trying to have a secular society. I know not everyone sees it that way

Freedom doesn't just mean agreeing to things only you prefer.

So, Beez - if they claimed that they thought black people were not really human - and so they didn't want to make them a cake - they have that right?

If it were part of their religion, sure. As gross as that sounds, we're talking about religious freedoms. I didn't know we were veering into bigotry as well.

Suppose they said they won't make cakes for Jews?

Again, under what religious tenets would that apply?

How far do we want to take this? What kind of world do you want to live in?

I want to live in a world where all religious beliefs are respected.
I want to live in a world where individual rights are respected.

You don't have to like my beliefs or my rights. But as long as you are not infringing on them, I could care less.

The gay couple infringed on the bakery owners religious rights.

The gay couple wasn't banned from ever purchasing a cake anywhere. Their desire to purchase a cake, though, was in conflict of another's rights.

Having followed this with some interest, my thoughts then are as they are now. The ultimate sad part of this is that their was a missed opportunity.

The opportunity being for the gay community to pull together and start a business that would cater to them and let business principles take effect, where it would be the general public that decides on what is and is not acceptable.

But instead the end result is going to be a business that closes shop and lay off people. If the Owner is that deeply religious that is what they would do, and ultimately will make the owner believe that gay people are not worth it.

it is a sad day indeed.

KingIcarus

beezzer
Let me turn this around for those who are for this.

When would any of you, defend the religious rights of someone?

What would it take for any of you to defend the religious rights of a person?

I'd defend the religious rights of an individual to the hilt, within the law - bearing in mind the law is pretty free and easy for individuals. I'm not religious myself, but I respect faith.

But when operating as a business dealing with the general public, I'd advise the individual to be careful what they choose to do if they feel unable to provide certain services during the general remit of their work.

There's two seperate groups of rights at work here.

Can you point out for me where an individual loses rights when he/she creates a business?

ketsuko
But this all ties into what Obama said really and the leftist belief that even though it may be your business that you worked hard to build and make successful - You Didn't Build That.

How dare you really think you have any right once you start it to make any decisions about how you will conduct it? We all own that business and will tell you whom you will and will not serve and how.

The lesson is don't go into business if you may not want to extend a service to someone who will walk through your door someday for any reason. Make sure you think about it and then think about how much you can trust your fellow citizens to respect you.

Wrong. This all goes back to the belief that every member of the public should have equal access to public accommodations: stores, restaurants, lodging, housing, education, etc.

ketsuko
Or look at it this way - You have a regular customer who is 60 or so, and one day he comes in asking you to make a cake celebrating his wedding. The lucky bride will be a 10-year-old girl. Should you be forced to make that cake?

edit on 7-12-2013 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)

This man would be committing a crime against the law of the land. Large difference.

theantediluvian

Typical bigot mentality. Your rights are more important than anyone else's. I'm not gay, but if the agenda is equality for everyone, sign me e anyway.

i
Wow revert to name calling because i dont believe your drivel sick

reply to post by theantediluvian


Thing is. You can have equality or you can have freedom. You cannot have both.

I would rather have personal liberty than a top down enforced equality which somehow never quite winds up being equal but is always a neverending game of some being lifted up at the expense of others with unintended consequences that always force a new legal reckoning in an attempt to level the system.

Anyone who has ever played an MMO and seen the neverending quest for "balance" knows how mythical true equality is and always will be.

Social justice is a lie sold to you in order to empower the elite who tell they and only they can make it happen.

Rosha

ketsuko
Or look at it this way - You have a regular customer who is 60 or so, and one day he comes in asking you to make a cake celebrating his wedding. The lucky bride will be a 10-year-old girl. Should you be forced to make that cake?

edit on 7-12-2013 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)

This man would be committing a crime against the law of the land. Large difference.

No, what he is doing is perfectly acceptable in some cultures. This is a good hypothetical. You can't dismiss it as against the law of the land. Gay marriage used to be against the law of the land, too. Laws change, and Islam and Shari'a could bring this to our shores.

Right now, there is a movement in the psychological community to dismiss pedophilia as a mental disorder. They actually did move it out of that category in this last revision, but outcry forced them to change it ... online. The published won't be changed until the next revision. This is exactly how the current gay rights movement started back in '73.

So, no, it's not impossible that you could see this situation crop up in America in the future.

reply to post by beezzer

The gay couple infringed on the bakery owners religious rights.

How? How is that a religious right?

:-)