We Are All Religious

reply to post by Aphorism


I have a soft spot for Voltaire.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Micromegas - by Voltaire - Ebook

reply to post by Aphorism


That book is beyond confusing.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I might have linked the French version. I have fixed it. I found this passage within and believe it to be apt for this thread.

The aliens are speaking to philosophers, after finding out that men kill each other for "piles of mud" and because the "sultan says so".

"Oh! Cruel fate!" cried the Sirian with indignation, "who could conceive of this excess of maniacal rage! It makes me want to take three steps and crush this whole anthill of ridiculous assassins."

"Do not waste your time," someone responded, "they are working towards ruin quickly enough. Know that after ten years only one hundredth of these scoundrels will be here. Know that even if they have not drawn swords, hunger, fatigue, or intemperance will overtake them. Furthermore, it is not they that should be punished, it is those sedentary barbarians who from the depths of their offices order, while they are digesting their last meal, the massacre of a million men, and who subsequently give solemn thanks to God."

The voyager was moved with pity for the small human race, where he was discovering such surprising contrasts.

"Since you are amongst the small number of wise men," he told these sirs, "and since apparently you do not kill anyone for money, tell me, I beg of you, what occupies your time."

"We dissect flies," said the philosopher, "we measure lines, we gather figures; we agree with each other on two or three points that we do not understand."

Hilarious

reply to post by Aphorism


I see myself reflected in the tail of that excerpt. I count leaves and wonder if stars play music.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Speaking of which, what is the definition of the term "god"? "God" didn't use to mean what it does today

Oh really ! Show me the difference? And whether mans
definition has changed or not? A god would never change.
Or need to in any way. God is simply a perfect being by
definition. Your arguement is ignorant. And I'm saying that
only because it's true. Not to insult you.
And God even states that he himself is the same yesterday,
today and forever. Just as a god should be. You know what
a God should be AI. I do give you that much credit. You need
to let go of all the misguided hate you have built up. For what ever
reason you have it. Because you will never see clearly with it
intact.

reply to post by randyvs


So evidently, you decided none of my questions were worth answering OR worth asking. In fact, you decided to give my post the middle finger, then pull down your pants and take a giant dump on the whole thing. Furthermore, you slapped science on the way out and told logic to go to hell as you got in your taxi and rode off into the sunset.

Next time you feel like being so unhelpful, don't bother posting. Please.

Define religion - from there maybe we can validate the OP and the title of the post

Merriam Webster Source definition.
Source from Websters Dictionary online
re·li·gion
noun \ri-ˈli-jən\

: the belief in a god or in a group of gods

: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group


If we use this definition to substantiate the post, it would more than likely render the title and statement being made as false.

would you agree or disagree?

There are people that I know that believe in none of the 3 supplied definitions of religion, so are they religious ?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


No, I really didn't crap on anything partner.
I replied and it seems you don't like to read the truth.
Wouldn't it be a shocker if you just admitted that in
the first place? I'd be shocked, I know that. So don't
preetend to be all butt hurt, I know ya's better than
that.

You didn't have to reword your retort either. After this amount
of time. Nothing you can say will surprise Randy.

Lil prediction for ya. Someday you really will weaken AI.
When you do ? You will crumble.

reply to post by randyvs

No, I really didn't crap on anything partner.
I replied and it seems you don't like to read the truth.

No, Randy. You treated my post with such complete disregard that I feel it was a deliberate snub. Either you didn't read my post, or you are not the conversational partner I am looking for. It's not disagreement, it's disregard I'm talking about here. You don't care what I have to say, you care about talking. You don't care what my answers are, you care that I agree with you. That's the impression I am getting.

Wouldn't it be a shocker if you just admitted that in
the first place? I'd be shocked, I know that. So don't
preetend to be all butt hurt, I know ya's better than
that.

...Well, that settles the matter for me. Apparently, you don't know the first thing about me. But don't worry, I'm not sticking around to give you a second chance. I think it would be a monumental waste of time for both of us. Don't bother addressing me in the future, Randy. And if you do...don't expect a response.

I don't know why this thread happened in the first place. What did the OP really think would happen? What a joke.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I just called it like I seen it AI. I'm not going to apologise because it
displeases you. I know for a fact, what I write means nothing to you.
And you're the one who responded to my post. I'm sure you remember.
I'm perfectly fine with your decree tho. Be sure you follow suit.

reply to post by phinubian

Define religion - from there maybe we can validate the OP and the title of the post

Merriam Webster Source definition.
Source from Websters Dictionary online
re·li·gion
noun ri-ˈli-jən

: the belief in a god or in a group of gods

: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group


If we use this definition to substantiate the post, it would more than likely render the title and statement being made as false.

would you agree or disagree?

There are people that I know that believe in none of the 3 supplied definitions of religion, so are they religious ?

I was using the following definition according to the Oxford Dictionary of English:

religion |riˈlijən|
noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods: ideas about the relationship between science and religion.
• a particular system of faith and worship: the world's great religions.
• a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance: consumerism is the new religion.

I even alluded to it in my post:

If religion is the worship of a “superhuman controlling power”, it could also be said that it is the worship of nothing more than a comforting idea—both definitions describing the exact same phenomena depending on how one chooses to look at it.

My argument is that for someone who doesn't believe in "superhuman controlling powers", such as myself, I cannot say that people believe in nor pray to any actual superhuman controlling powers (because they don't exist), but that they are instead believing and praying to a comforting idea.

So belief and worship in a superhuman controlling power is actual belief in an idea as it is expressed by religions. My argument continues from this premise that everyone finds comfort in ideas, and therefor, everyone is religious.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Akragon

 

Haven't I said that our greatest power as the human species is the ability to ascribe or detract meaning according to, or regardless of, the inherent qualities in any idea or object? The point is that we create a point. The miracle of free will is that we don't need ideas to be handed to us on a platter. We can craft our own ideas. We can come up with a thought and enact that thought and change a community or a process or the world through it. We are literally able to change the future due to the simple act of thinking for ourselves.

That's the point. But in my opinion, that doesn't make me religious because I am making decisions based on myself and those around me, rather than some ultimate truth that invariably demands the same result of all of existence for some concept of singularity. My power to "create" is focused on living a life of satisfaction while also reflecting the needs of those who contribute to that satisfaction, rather than focusing on a life of reflection one single ideal regardless of how it affects myself or others.

edit on 6-12-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

So you agree then...

Its about learning

Aphorism
So belief and worship in a superhuman controlling power is actual belief in an idea as it is expressed by religions. My argument continues from this premise that everyone finds comfort in ideas, and therefor, everyone is religious.

No 'idea' will bring comfort. An 'idea' might match with one other person or maybe a group but even within a group of believers (in the idea) the 'idea' will vary.
'Ideas' will always conflict.
If you have an idea you can fight with other ideas - it's just a battle of words.
Is fighting peaceful (comfortable)?

The problem with ideas is that they are never true.

One must go beyond 'concepts' (ideas) to find true comfort. One must realize the 'non conceptual' to know true stability.

The problem is that until the non conceptual is realized, one will see nothing but concepts and be lost within them.
There is existence prior to concepts but the words appear to place a veil over non conceptual reality.
The truth is hidden in plain sight.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

No 'idea' will bring comfort. An 'idea' might match with one other person or maybe a group but even within a group of believers (in the idea) the 'idea' will vary.
'Ideas' will always conflict.
If you have an idea you can fight with other ideas - it's just a battle of words.
Is fighting peaceful (comfortable)?

The problem with ideas is that they are never true.

One must go beyond 'concepts' (ideas) to find true comfort. One must realize the 'non conceptual' to know true stability.

The problem is that until the non conceptual is realized, one will see nothing but concepts and be lost within them.
There is existence prior to concepts but the words appear to place a veil over non conceptual reality.
The truth is hidden in plain sight.

It seems this idea has brought you some comfort.

Aphorism
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

No 'idea' will bring comfort. An 'idea' might match with one other person or maybe a group but even within a group of believers (in the idea) the 'idea' will vary.
'Ideas' will always conflict.
If you have an idea you can fight with other ideas - it's just a battle of words.
Is fighting peaceful (comfortable)?

The problem with ideas is that they are never true.

One must go beyond 'concepts' (ideas) to find true comfort. One must realize the 'non conceptual' to know true stability.

The problem is that until the non conceptual is realized, one will see nothing but concepts and be lost within them.
There is existence prior to concepts but the words appear to place a veil over non conceptual reality.
The truth is hidden in plain sight.

It seems this idea has brought you some comfort.

No 'idea' brings comfort.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Not even the one you related to me? It sounds comforting. But I guess, like you said, no idea is true.

reply to post by Aphorism


Not an answer, I'm afraid. 'It's biological' applies to everything human beings do, because we are biological.

When we would open up, every night, instead of seeing kids there, we would see a row full of cripples along the front. When we’d be running through, people would be lying around. It seemed that we were just surrounded by cripples and blind people all the time, and when we would go through corridors they would all be touching us … They’d line them up, and I got the impression The Beatles were being treated as bloody faith healers. — John Lennon

To state that everyone is religious is to state a truism. There is nothing to debate in that statement. The interesting question is why we are religious. I suppose I shall have to start my own thread to get any traction on that, though...

Aphorism
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Not even the one you related to me? It sounds comforting. But I guess, like you said, no idea is true.

No 'concept' (idea) is true - only the 'non conceptual' is.

reply to post by Astyanax

Not an answer, I'm afraid. 'It's biological' applies to everything human beings do, because we are biological.

That is an answer actually. But to be fair it is conjecture; just like any "answer" to that question would be. What would be a sufficient enough answer for you? One that evokes gods?

To state that everyone is religious is to state a truism. There is nothing to debate in that statement. The interesting question is why we are religious. I suppose I shall have to start my own thread to get any traction on that, though...

Not a truism I'm afraid. I'm stating an opinion. Because you agree with me does not make it true. Stating that the question "why people are religious" is more interesting is also an opinion. Imagining one's opinion as absolute truth is also quite religious, but more unforgivable in my eyes.