Did Exodus Really Happen? Most likely NOT

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Logarock

 

That wasn't meant to be taken as a stand alone text, plus I wasn't putting forth the evidence. I was telling Stormdancer that the evidence HE presented demonstrated that those bible passages were ripped from Egyptian texts. I don't understand how you failed to get that point.

Well that was your conclusion to what was posted. It could very well just be an Egyptian version of the same events. Thus they don't have any more right beyond that to be used as refutation.

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Logarock

 

That wasn't meant to be taken as a stand alone text, plus I wasn't putting forth the evidence. I was telling Stormdancer that the evidence HE presented demonstrated that those bible passages were ripped from Egyptian texts. I don't understand how you failed to get that point.

Well that was your conclusion to what was posted. It could very well just be an Egyptian version of the same events. Thus they don't have any more right beyond that to be used as refutation.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Its not a copout ,it is literally what these texts mean. What is wrong, isn't the Jewels of understanding that have been passed on, its the conpsiracy by those who created these levels, one for the aware and one for the masses/children. One for Is Ra El and one for the gentiles (this is not about races). That is really twisted and ugly, that is slavery.

The only thing is, in those days, keeping low key, may have saved lives, for it would be pretty hard in Saudi Arabi for example to suddenly go talking about the inner meanings....akin to the era's of the past.

But there is no excuse for it to continue for many centuries.

opopanax

Logarock
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

That is absolutely ridicules. You would have to clear the libraries around the world if all material were scrutinized for % of historical accuracy, fully factual or not ect. This site would have to be shut down if it had to meet that standard.

Isn't the Bible alleged by believers to be unique in that it's the "word of God," though? That isn't generally held to be true for the other books in the library or the posts on ATS. The issue, I believe, lies with the claims of Biblical infallibility and how to settle these claims with the apparent contradictions and/or errors the text contains.

Hardly any of these so called contradictions are even germane to the issue at hand and otherwise a stretch.

Another example for one that was left out of the bible, the gospel of Thomas, there was a passage about the Lion eating the man, and becoming a Man, and the Man eating the Lion and becoming the Man, that bugged me for years. Now this wasn't a good lion meaning, ie, the protector, noble Lion of Judah, no this was the predator, eating you, you eat him.

Then ergo, the light bulb goes off on understanding in the bible passages, about the hidden meanings related to lower primitive mind, and the ascension/awkening, into Higher Mind/oneness with God.

What this means is Love always wins, no matter what system you're under, a good one for man to evolve in naturally, abundance and decent world, or a fascist dark side one, no matter what, the primitive lower mind eventually becomes man and then Higher Mind. We can shine and nudge and hold light in any system and intercede for those in power, send Love to all.

reply to post by Akragon

Like... adam and eve... obviously its a "dubious" story... a talking snake or donkey? Really?

But why exclude other stories that fall outside of storytelling. A guy walking on water or feeding a massive crowd with a couple of fish and loaves of bread. Appearances of ghosts/spirits. While you can find stories of things like this alot of places I can't find any that can be proven true outside of a persons word of said event. The bible is ripe with stories that would fall outside of the acceptable norm of life yet people take them as believable events. Where do you distinguish that line?

Logarock

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

I'm not sure that is proving what you think it would be proving. What that proves is that those bible passages are most likely ripped off from Egyptian texts.

Show us some of these rip offs from Egyptian texts.

I haven't read them in a long time, I will look for the info.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


The Egyptian Book of the Coming Forth by Day,the Book of the Dead

I am the Eternal, I am Ra ... I am that which created the Word ... I am the Word ...

This does not discount the Exodus but makes me believe they did live in Egypt.

There are more that I can post

Just a thought here
* When they had departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, flee to Egypt,* and stay there until I tell you. Herod is going to search for the child to destroy him.”
Isaiah 19:25
Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

reply to post by drivers1492


logic usually works for me....

Logarock

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Logarock

 

I don't see how you are comparing actual physical evidence in books to contradictions presented in the bible. I don't know about you, but I've never read a textbook that claimed one thing in one chapter then claimed the complete opposite in the next chapter (and was taken seriously as a textbook). The bible does this many times. Basically, my entire argument can be boiled down to that the bible, due to its many contradictions, cannot be used as a primary or secondary source.

It has as much right to being a primary source as any work on any subject that is contradicted by information from other research on the topic.

Besides you want to place a lot of evidence on so called contradictions to a list that no one here has the time to refute. Having had a look at some of those contradictions they can be refuted. Many of them are just simple minded.

Two different sources contradicting each other is one thing, but when the SAME source contradicts itself multiple times is where there is a problem. Are you just willingly trying to change my meanings here or what, because I'm not sure how much clearer I can be.

Many of the contradictions aren't simple minded. The bible says one thing at one point then says something completely opposite elsewhere. Here I'll click on one random contradiction from the first source and post it for you:

Is is OK to call your father (or anyone else) father?

NO

Matthew 23:9

And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

YES

Exodus 20:12

Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Deuteronomy 5:16

Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Ephesians 6:2

Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise

2 Kings 2:12

And Elisha saw [it], and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.

2 Kings 6:21

And the king of Israel said unto Elisha, when he saw them, My father, shall I smite [them]? shall I smite [them]?

1 John 2:13-14

I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him [that is] from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him [that is] from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

drivers1492

I have a question, if the Exodus never happened what did it profit the ancient Hebrews to make up such an event?

reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

It would seem just as many civilizations have an embellished story of their beginning and history its not unreasonable to assume they have done the same thing here. I make no argument that there may be some truth to the story but I have never came across anything that would support the scale that the biblical narrative suggests. The reasoning for making fantastic stories about a cultures origins is to inflate the people to be proud of their heritage possibly giving them more self worth as a culture and individual.

But the story shames them. Its one big face palm recollection of a bunch of stiffed necked rebels and their relationship with God Almighty that bent over backwards at all costs to have a relationship with them. Its a pathetic picture of a nation building effort by God trying to work in close personal contact with humans. God even says through one of His prophets that if he had show himself to any other nation of people in the world they would have worshiped Him wholeheartedly.

So there's no conspiracy here built into the bible. Its a story of God working with a nation despite itself.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Those were not the examples and I am a she.

Logarock

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Logarock

 

That wasn't meant to be taken as a stand alone text, plus I wasn't putting forth the evidence. I was telling Stormdancer that the evidence HE presented demonstrated that those bible passages were ripped from Egyptian texts. I don't understand how you failed to get that point.

Well that was your conclusion to what was posted. It could very well just be an Egyptian version of the same events. Thus they don't have any more right beyond that to be used as refutation.

Seeing as how the bible was written after those scrolls were written, I'd say that the bible is the one guilty of the plagiarism here.

reply to post by Akragon


Lol thanks but I had hope for a bit more dialogue and opinion on the subject. I have read many threads you participate in and enjoy your mindset.

drivers1492
reply to post by Akragon

 

Lol thanks but I had hope for a bit more dialogue and opinion on the subject. I have read many threads you participate in and enjoy your mindset.

Alrighty... let me give you the lowdown...

Theres 4 books in the bible that make a difference... the rest is just a damn good story..

Stormdancer777
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

Those were not the examples and I am a she.

Please elaborate on what you mean here. And sorry, I just use the word he when I don't know someone's gender. I'm not trying to offend anyone.

reply to post by Logarock


It's possible yes it would shame them. It is also possible they viewed it as their struggle to achieve a relationship with said god. I have no clue as our culture is nothing like theirs to make that guess either way but I do agree with you. I'm not sure if the conspiracy comment was directed at me I'm not implying that there is one simply discussing possibilities and opinions.

Logarock

drivers1492

I have a question, if the Exodus never happened what did it profit the ancient Hebrews to make up such an event?

reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

It would seem just as many civilizations have an embellished story of their beginning and history its not unreasonable to assume they have done the same thing here. I make no argument that there may be some truth to the story but I have never came across anything that would support the scale that the biblical narrative suggests. The reasoning for making fantastic stories about a cultures origins is to inflate the people to be proud of their heritage possibly giving them more self worth as a culture and individual.

But the story shames them. Its one big face palm recollection of a bunch of stiffed necked rebels and their relationship with God Almighty that bent over backwards at all costs to have a relationship with them. Its a pathetic picture of a nation building effort by God trying to work in close personal contact with humans. God even says through one of His prophets that if he had show himself to any other nation of people in the world they would have worshiped Him wholeheartedly.

So there's no conspiracy here built into the bible. Its a story of God working with a nation despite itself.

So why just one nation? Why couldn't God make himself known to the whole world? Seems to me that would have been a lot easier and would have caused FAR less undo hardship and wars. Seems a little silly to me.

Logarock
Hardly any of these so called contradictions are even germane to the issue at hand and otherwise a stretch.

The issue, as I see it, is the overall credibility of a source that apparently contains internal contradictions. A similar issue arises from the interpretation of certain parts of the text as being metaphorical, allegorical, or symbolic. If some passages aren't meant to be taken literally, how can one be sure which of the others are meant to be taken literally?

reply to post by opopanax


Thankyou, this is what I've been trying to get at for the last 2 pages.

OH well, Moses was a king, high priest and scribe of Egypt, scribes were considered almost like gods

Research the importance of the written WORD, the scribe and the high priests were one.

The scribes of Sumeria of Mesopotamia.

Anyway I need to step back and take a breath of fresh air.