Historical data shows vaccines are not what saved us

reply to post by breadinspector

The fear was well grounded. By the 1950s, polio had become one of the most serious communicable diseases among children in the United States.

In 1952 alone, nearly 60,000 children were infected with the virus; thousands were paralyzed, and more than 3,000 died. Hospitals set up special units with iron lung machines to keep polio victims alive. Rich kids as well as poor were left paralyzed.

www.npr.org...

Polio was still an issue for boomers. As I said, if you are old enough, ask your grandparents about it. When I was a kid, I asked my mum why some fellow was walking funny, she said polio. I remember it to this day. First time I ever heard of it.

(Also suffered pertussis as a kid too, but perhaps none of this rings a bell to you because these things were all nearly wiped out with vaccines… *Irony)

You are talking rubbish mate you and the pharmaceutical companies, you sound like a disinfo agent the way you defende them.
Pharmaceutical companies make a tonne of money which if the truth about vaccines came out they couldnt make any more money, the funny thing is the truth is out but people refuse to believe in it untill their kid gets autism or what not, then they make a big fuss about it.

Why don't you actually investigate the drug industry instead of acting like you know everything there is to know about them.

Last time I checked, the big players are still around after being criminally charged (repeatedly) and putting drugs to market (fraudulently) which have caused anything from strokes (Vioxx) to people's faces actually falling off (Facial necrosis - the name of the drug escapes me, believe it was Pfizer).

boncho

breadinspector

boncho

tigershark1988
While I can't say I trust natural news completely, I have seen similar data from other sources.

You definitely can't trust the FDA as far as you can throw them. Doctors obviously don't trust vaccines but are under duress to keep a lid on their opinions, if they want to keep their jobs.

You would trust these people though? (AVN - Source of the NN article)



This is a letter they sent to a family who's daughter recently died.

Apparently when your child dies, AVN knows (without a medical study) that it was due to vaccines, and then they will write a letter to you, telling you not to worry, god chose for your kid to die but hey, let's focus on the evil drug companies.

(For the record I will concede drug companies are slime, but the anti-vax crowd is worse.)

That article is a fabcrication of the truth, how would the guy get the families address for one, and i doubt he would said such a message to the family, its a pharma shill who most likely sent that message or just made that message up to dicredit people who question vaccines.

I will actually correct myself, it seems AVN was under the impression antibiotics killed the baby with whooping cough, but the whole incident is pretty well documented. If you want to show evidence it was made up, knock yourself out…

www.dailytelegraph.com.au...

The AVN faces a hearing in June in front of the Administrative Decisions Tribunal. Fair Trading has directed the association to change its name because it regards it to be misleading, a decision that is being challenged by the AVN.

The McCafferys will make a statement to the tribunal which includes the litany of harassment.

edit on 1-11-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)

Something fishy about this their child dies from whoopiing cough but no mention that vaccines caused it or what caused it actually, the family then goes onto promote vaccines and discredits the anti vaccine crowd even tho millions of kids have contracted autism due to vaccines.

"I don't know how they got my home address but I rang them and swore at them and abused them. They were trying to convince me my child didn't die of SSPE. It was so painful and insulting and it diminishes the agony Laine went through," Cecily says.
she has no idea how they got her phone and i doubt these people are important enough for them to stalk and follow to get an address so this definitely sounds like a black ops by the pharmaceutical companies to me to discredit the anti vaccine movement and to promote vaccines at the same time

we all the know the courts are in on the vaccine hoax since theyre paid of by the pharmaceutical companies so who even knows if the lawsuit is legit it seems bogus with all this evidence out there

they also recieved a $1000 prize from a group called the "skeptics" which discredits anti vaccinists, so all in all your link is a fraud, this family is most definitely a fraud if theyre even a family at all, this sounds so bogus, baby dies from whooping cough, yet theres no details if she was vaccinated or not, if she wasnt, why wasnt she since this family believes in vaccines so much, yeh too many holes in this story its a fraud.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


While I agree in part but think your radicalism is excessive. For example measles, rubella and polio vaccination proves you wrong and in large part the danger of vaccination has decreased from those times especially in vaccination programs that use live virus (a rarity today)...

boncho
reply to post by breadinspector

 

The fear was well grounded. By the 1950s, polio had become one of the most serious communicable diseases among children in the United States.

In 1952 alone, nearly 60,000 children were infected with the virus; thousands were paralyzed, and more than 3,000 died. Hospitals set up special units with iron lung machines to keep polio victims alive. Rich kids as well as poor were left paralyzed.

www.npr.org...

Polio was still an issue for boomers. As I said, if you are old enough, ask your grandparents about it. When I was a kid, I asked my mum why some fellow was walking funny, she said polio. I remember it to this day. First time I ever heard of it.

(Also suffered pertussis as a kid too, but perhaps none of this rings a bell to you because these things were all nearly wiped out with vaccines… *Irony)

You are talking rubbish mate you and the pharmaceutical companies, you sound like a disinfo agent the way you defende them.
Pharmaceutical companies make a tonne of money which if the truth about vaccines came out they couldnt make any more money, the funny thing is the truth is out but people refuse to believe in it untill their kid gets autism or what not, then they make a big fuss about it.

Why don't you actually investigate the drug industry instead of acting like you know everything there is to know about them.

Last time I checked, the big players are still around after being criminally charged (repeatedly) and putting drugs to market (fraudulently) which have caused anything from strokes (Vioxx) to people's faces actually falling off (Facial necrosis - the name of the drug escapes me, believe it was Pfizer).

so you got pertusis and survived? im sure many more would have survived after contracting it too, you surely cant be the exception, plus the big word here is IF, if they even get it to begin with the chances are so low
vaccines didnt make it low, cleaner living made it low

polio was an epidemic in the states because of the monsanto chemicals they used to spray food with, its a cycle of death with the pharmaceutical companies they create the problem, then make more drugs to fix the problem, when the problem will be avoided if we just dismantle the phamrceutical companies theyve done nothing good for the world, herbal medicines are still used by 99% of the world for their healing needs

Panic2k11
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

While I agree in part but think your radicalism is excessive. For example rubella and polio vaccination proves you wrong and in large part the danger of vaccination has decreased from those times especially in vaccination programs that use live virus (a rarity today)...

Polio was

reply to post by boncho


Here is the problem with with studies... you can get a study to say whatever the flip you want it.s all about who is funding the study and what they want it to say... we in the medical field know this.

Panic2k11
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

While I agree in part but think your radicalism is excessive. For example rubella and polio vaccination proves you wrong and in large part the danger of vaccination has decreased from those times especially in vaccination programs that use live virus (a rarity today)...

your wrong autism has skyroketed since the 80s with 1 in 5 having a learning disabiliy and thats the way the united states does its tests, in korea 1 in 2 has a learning disability and 1 in 38 has autism, the phamrceutical are very dodgy the way they do their tests, they test so they dont look bad
autism is caused by vaccines, confirmed by wakefield and many other studies

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Do you realize you just posted a ton of graphics with absolutely no sources?

breadinspector

Panic2k11
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

While I agree in part but think your radicalism is excessive. For example rubella and polio vaccination proves you wrong and in large part the danger of vaccination has decreased from those times especially in vaccination programs that use live virus (a rarity today)...

your wrong autism has skyroketed since the 80s with 1 in 5 having a learning disabiliy and thats the way the united states does its tests, in korea 1 in 2 has a learning disability and 1 in 38 has autism, the phamrceutical are very dodgy the way they do their tests, they test so they dont look bad
autism is caused by vaccines, confirmed by wakefield and many other studies

How many documented cases of autism were in the 1800s?

Oh and how many cases of "Morons" "Idiots" and "Retards" were there… ? Cause you know, language, medicine, and our understanding has increased since then…

Yes, ignore the experts who reveal that vaccines are useless and do more harm than good. Ignore the fact that in America they won't do double blind studies on vaccines, but they did in Italy and found the truth about them.

Here is a good article:

sci-vax.blogspot.co.uk...

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

vaccines are not what reduced these diseases... The vaccines are extremely dangerous and don't work!

So ok vaccination does not work, how do you explain that polio "is gone" ?

I not debating the tests or secondary effects or the monetization of health services and industries only objecting to you blank statement that vaccination a) does not work b) they are intrinsically evil. I do not live in a black and white world like you, there are many shades of gray...

reply to post by breadinspector

polio was an epidemic in the states because of the monsanto chemicals they used to spray food with, its a cycle of death with the pharmaceutical companies they create the problem, then make more drugs to fix the problem, when the problem will be avoided if we just dismantle the phamrceutical companies theyve done nothing good for the world, herbal medicines are still used by 99% of the world for their healing needs

You are trolling here. You are referring to DDT causing polio. Except that this was popularized by someone who didn't even believe polio to be viral.

And it clearly shows that polio was trending upwards before the use of DDT.

They have taken pictures of the poliovirus btw, with an electron microscope, so we know it's not caused by a chemical.

Panic2k11
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

vaccines are not what reduced these diseases... The vaccines are extremely dangerous and don't work!

So ok vaccination does not work, how do you explain that polio "is gone" ?

I not debating the tests or secondary effects or the monetization of health services and industries only objecting to you blank statement that vaccination a) does not work b) they are intrinsically evil. I do not live in a black and white world like you, there are many shades of gray...

its gone because of cleaner living, better sanitsation, better living conditions better food not cos of vaccines

gnosticagnostic
reply to post by boncho

 

Here is the problem with with studies... you can get a study to say whatever the flip you want it.s all about who is funding the study and what they want it to say... we in the medical field know this.

To a degree. If what you say is the case, there would not be a long documented history of fraud and criminal/civil trials in the drug industry. Eventually they have to lie.

Simple as that.

It is hard research, but drug companies are documented criminal organizations. Have been hammered with a number of cases over the years and it is out there if you look for it.

If it were as easy as making studies project the results you want without being able to be proved otherwise, you would be correct. Changing the direction of a study, leaning or omitting results, yes, but eventually you cross a line for fraud and it can be rebutted/discovered/proven false.

Kind of like some of those bunk studies saying vaccines give us x,y,z.

Unfortunately, due to a profound lack of vaccination in a few nations and a real hard push agaist Polio vaccine in particular? It's rearing it's ugly head again. Syria is confirming an outbreak among children with an estimated 500,000 children without vaccination and highly vulnerable.

Ten cases of polio have been confirmed among children in Syria, the first outbreak of the disease in that country since 1999, a World Health Organization spokesman told CNN Tuesday.

WHO's Oliver Rosenbauer said the confirmations were among 22 suspected cases that were identified on October 17 in the eastern city of Deir Ezzor after the children exhibited symptoms of "acute flaccid paralysis" -- a sudden onset of weakness and floppiness in any part of a child's body or paralysis in anyone in whom polio is suspected as the cause.

The good news is that there are not very many nations that have such an issue. Of course, the ones that have it are not the places we really want to see one of the most dangerous and cruel diseases known to man to reappear.

The highly infectious viral disease primarily affects young children. Initial symptoms can include fever, fatigue, headache, vomiting, neck stiffness, limb pain and, in a small number of cases, paralysis and death.

It can be prevented through immunization, but there is no cure. The incidence of the disease has dropped by more than 99% since 1988. It remains endemic in three countries -- Pakistan, Nigeria and Afghanistan -- down from more than 125 countries in 1988.

Source

I certainly don't agree with vaccinations at the level they happen today, for seemingly every oddball thing they can come up with a new vaccine for. However, for the history's worst killers? Well...I got mine as a kid, all on schedule. I'm not autistic, have no cancer and suffer no other maladies from it. At least a couple hundred million other people are similarly vaccinated in the U.S.

Vaccines also have NO cause and effect established to Autism. If a peer reviewed, published study can be shown otherwise, please do. I've missed it. As a Father with a son dealing with high functioning autism, I am watching that very closely to try and understand what caused this for him. It's not a debate point. It's a member of my immediate family and my son. So..indeed..please do share if such a study establishes that link and just never got made public somehow? (I'm doubtful..but I've also been wrong before..so open to the idea one could exist)

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


The problem with those graphs is that they depict mortality rates and not infection rates. Mortality rates went down because medical advances meant that people who contracted these diseases received better (and life saving) treatments. If you look at infection rates, they actually correspond remarkably with the advent of vaccinations (thus debunking the claim of anti-vaccination critics).

I'm in a relationship with an anti-vaccination critic and this is a source of constant debate between us, as our 3 year old daughter has not been inoculated. Where I live, I can't have her inoculated without her mothers consent, so I have done a lot of research on both sides of the argument. There is compelling data to support the idea that vaccinations can be harmful, but in my opinion there aren't enough cons to outweigh the pros. I think the real debate should center around how we can make vaccines safer and offer parents more choice in which vaccines they wish their children to receive (and how many shots in a certain time span).

reply to post by breadinspector

so you got pertusis and survived? im sure many more would have survived after contracting it too, you surely cant be the exception, plus the big word here is IF, if they even get it to begin with the chances are so low
vaccines didnt make it low, cleaner living made it low

Pertussis has made a comeback in many places around the world, even the US.

During 2012, 48,277 cases of pertussis were reported to CDC. The incidence rate of pertussis among infants exceeds that of all other age groups. The second highest rates of disease are observed among children 7 through 10 years old. Rates also increased in adolescents 13 and 14 years of age. 18 pertussis-related deaths during 2012 have been reported to CDC. The majority of deaths occurred among infants younger than 3 months of age.
During 2012, increased pertussis cases or outbreaks were reported in a majority of states. Forty-nine states and Washington, D.C. reported increases in disease in 2012 compared with 2011.

www.cdc.gov...

You can believe what you want. I care about my future generations but not anyone who completely ignores history or is only willing to look at data that suits their outlook. I looked into the vaccine debate, genuinely (a long time ago) and it does not coincide with reality.

Perhaps you are too young to realize. Our forefathers lived in epidemics, and the threat was passed on to some of us. Maybe you didn't experience anything, but perhaps you ought to talk to some people around in 50's, and the stories of their parents.

Disease used to be a very real threat, your friends dropping off at the blink of an eye. This was a major thing for people, daily anxiety. Vaccines were never more popular for boomers and their kids, disease rates went down and people generally pushed the threat out of their minds.

If the anti-vaccine trend continues and epidemics start breaking out again people will be asking to be vaccinated. You might see it with the diminished usefulness of antibiotics as well, and again, people will be begging for something to help them.

It's real easy to condemn something when the threats which created have vanished.

reply to post by breadinspector


Sorry I can't agree with that, I agree that those things had/have an impact but by themselves were not the cause of eradication, the same with autisms I have my own idea about the subject and vaccines even if promoters are not the cause.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Its the living conditions and also, laboratories filled with freaking psychos that deal virus's to the populous, that cause these things.

Vaccines kill people and maim them.

Its not due to lack of vaccines, at all. Thats the lie. Period.

boncho

breadinspector

Panic2k11
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

While I agree in part but think your radicalism is excessive. For example rubella and polio vaccination proves you wrong and in large part the danger of vaccination has decreased from those times especially in vaccination programs that use live virus (a rarity today)...

your wrong autism has skyroketed since the 80s with 1 in 5 having a learning disabiliy and thats the way the united states does its tests, in korea 1 in 2 has a learning disability and 1 in 38 has autism, the phamrceutical are very dodgy the way they do their tests, they test so they dont look bad
autism is caused by vaccines, confirmed by wakefield and many other studies

How many documented cases of autism were in the 1800s?

Oh and how many cases of "Morons" "Idiots" and "Retards" were there… ? Cause you know, language, medicine, and our understanding has increased since then…

To expand on this point I urge you to read about the Idiots Act of 1886:

The Idiots Act 1886 (49 Vict.c.25) was an act of Parliament of the United Kingdom. It was intended to give "... facilities for the care, education, and training of Idiots and Imbeciles".[1]

The Act made, for the first time, the distinction between "lunatics"[n 1], "idiots", and "imbeciles" for the purpose of making entry into education establishments easier and for defining the ways they were cared for.

Before the Act, learning institutions for idiots and imbeciles were seen as either "licensed houses" or "registered hospitals" for lunatics, for which the parents of children hoping to enter would have to complete a form stating that they were "a lunatic, an idiot, or a person of unsound mind". Additionally, they were required to answer irrelevant questions and present two medical certificates.[2]

The Act was repealed by the Mental Deficiency Act 1913, by which time two further classifications had been introduced: "feeble-minded people" and "moral defectives".[3]

Technically, we could reduce autism to zero, so long as we reinstate the definitions like, idiots, imbeciles, and lunatics. Send them off to the nut house guvna!