Did Satan turn Jesus into an Idol?

Ormuz
QUESTION:

is the bible / religion just a distraction from reality .. it seems both sides atheist and religious nuts alike seem to spend a lot of time arguing about this crap .. its 2013, lets get with the times on a spiritual level ... there is no god, there is a god( higher being ) in you, just not what you have been hammered in church.

Muzz

edit on 24/10/2013 by Ormuz because: because i just did ... deal with it

In a way you are right. It is all talk and faith but no real testing if your faith works as the tool it is and as intended by god/source(or whatever label you want to put here). They could be meditating or using some other ways to figure out how the spiritual world really works and not hide behind other people description. But people seems more interested in their ideas of what god is than to go to the place where they can find out. If you have any other tools than manipulating chakras and playing around with chi/reiki then tell me because they are the only tool I really have.

reply to post by Belcastro


Instead of destroying the souls that sinned, God made us in the flesh to be born innocent. He said "Let US make man in OUR image, we look just like our angelic forms. All the races were created on the 6th (6,000 yrs.) day. He looked and said it is good. Adam was a seperate creation for the seed line of Mary/Jesus. Cain's seedline you will not find in Adams' because Cain was Satan's seed. Jesus said "if you've seen me you've seen the Father". He looked just like God because he was God the Father in the flesh, Creator of the universe. Betrayed,tortured and crucified to defeat Death which is Satan. He knew and knows how to get er done. btw, if you read jude you will understand about how the giants came about. Some angels left heaven or their first habitation and instead of being born innocent of woman they seduced all that they chose and big ass beings were the result. Angel's have 'seed' man. Satan still is the enemy of All even his followers and God hates him and so do I. Cain's seedline or Kenites is what's running behind the scenes today as of old. Two churches Jesus was pleased with in Rev.. taught about those who say they are Jews and are NOT but DO LIE. These be the Kenites.

reply to post by Belcastro


I don't know about all that..

reply to post by Belcastro


God is

1. Our ( Making us all including Christ as " Son of Man " his children.) Heavenly Father.
As he is the only Creator God. Without him nothing would be because nothing would be god.

Jesus Christ is

1. Gods only begotten Son.
Making him relative to God. Enabling our worship of him as our only
possible Savior. He will testify for us ( pro bono )that we are not
totally to blame for what happened in the Garden. Because if Satan
did not exist , his influence would not have caused us to fail.
I often wonder if any one else on this planet has ever noticed one
simple tiny lil fact of what went on," The day the music died.

God said that if they ate there of they
would surely die. Well we certainly do enough of that. But wait.....
He was still talking to us. He was still willing. Then what happened sealed
our fate. The real meat of Gods beef with us turned us yellow in his eyes.
Adam blames himself in the most cowardly way possible. He blamed his
own woman, who was actually created ( as we've just learned ) from his
own body. Then Gods anger goes thru the roof. This is where Christ
becomes our only hope. So the OT points to him coming and the NT
confirms it. But why did he come ? To show us how not to be cowards
you dopes. Not to judge. And he made his own decision to do so,
because he loves his Father and he loves us. We now have Gods son
to plead our case. And the terms for that are practically pro bono.
As in even the poorest in spirit can afford him. if you very simply are
not stupid and completely blinded by the lies that are still with us today.
Those lies are just a fantasy of " The Wicked ". And very simply will not be
realised. It's not even a war for God, because all he has to do is speak it.
And his will is done.

For God said let there be light. And there was light.

I am by no means a perfect human being. But I love my Father in Heaven.
Come hell or high water.

Typo

reply to post by Belcastro

Do you believe that jesus was God?

Nope, He was the son of God, not God in the flesh... his followers misunderstood what he was saying... likely because they were jewish... In that particular religion any association with God is blasphemy, which was why he was killed in the first place...

He called himself the son of God, so to a jew he must have been God also... or he was nothing more then a blasphemer... and his followers couldn't consider their saviour something like that...

Jesus never once claimed to be God... It just didn't happen, and if it did his followers would have definitely written it down... Christians wouldn't have to go through the nonsense they do to make the claim that he was God... It would be written in at least one of their testimonies, but it wasn't.

By calling Jesus God Christians make him an idol, and call him a liar by omission...

And "Satan" had nothing to do with anything... HE does not exist

reply to post by Akragon


How do you know whether satan was real or not?
If jesus is real,but not satan, then what entered judas before he handed jesus over to the authorities when it says "And Satan entered Judas." in the bible?
I dont know whether satan exists or not as a literal person im just wondering your take on what satan the adversary really is.

and what about the christians who dont worship jesus as God but still accept him as their Lord?

randyvs
reply to post by Belcastro

 

God is

1. Our ( Making us all including Christ as " Son of Man " his children.) Heavenly Father.
As he is the only Creator God. Without him nothing would be because nothing would be god.

Jesus Christ is

1. Gods only begotten Son.
Making him relative to God. Enabling our worship of him as our only
possible Savior. He will testify for us ( pro bono )that we are not
totally to blame for what happened in the Garden. Because if Satan
did not exist , his influence would not have caused us to fail.
I often wonder if any one else on this planet has ever noticed one
simple tiny lil fact of what went on," The day the music died.

The Fall of man.
Jesus accepted the worship of the people of jerusalem when he entered the city they were yelling "Hosanna to the Highest! Blessed be he who comes in the name of the Lord!"

Would you agree that its ok to worship jesus as a messiah or son of LORD GOD of the old testament, or do you also accept the worship of jesus' Graven images as we see today?

if the answer was yes to either of the questions above then there is a follow up question.
Do you feel in any way that worshiping jesus in any form is taking worship away from GOD?

EnochWasRight


Luke 3 tells you that the Son of God created Adam. Genesis 1 tells you that Elohim (plural) created mankind and the universe. Genesis 2 tells you that the LORD (Son of God) created Adam, the same as Luke 3.



Careful. The Redeemer is Adam. Jesus is the first and last Adam according to 1 Corinthians 15. If you hound him, since the root of the trouble was originally in him, you will suffer judgment. Why? We are all slices from the one loaf of bread we share.

Jesus Created himself and incarnated into adam?

Maybe you are mistaking when they say LORD(in the Old Testament), they really mean LORD GOD and they are reffering to jesus's father who you say was himself.

If jesus is the first and last adam, and adam caused the fall of man, then really it seems more like jesus was punished for his own sins during the crucifixion. if jesus is adam.

Belcastro
reply to post by Akragon

 

How do you know whether satan was real or not?
If jesus is real,but not satan, then what entered judas before he handed jesus over to the authorities when it says "And Satan entered Judas." in the bible?
I dont know whether satan exists or not as a literal person im just wondering your take on what satan the adversary really is.

and what about the christians who dont worship jesus as God but still accept him as their Lord?

edit on 25-10-2013 by Belcastro because: (no reason given)

Simply put... Satan is the excess of wants and desires of the physical world... Nothing technically "entered" judas... He was overcome by greed, giving his lord over to the wolves for a meager price.

And just so you know i am not a Christian, and Jesus never once claimed to be God... But he is Lord and the saviour of the world

"Jesus the Slain harvest Corn god"

Jesus (son of EL) was never born in real life, he is just an anthropomorphic character of nature! He was born in spring and also died in spring (passover, nisan) the equinox, thus the other time he might have been born is Autumn or September equinox! Christmas is now our end of year, which is why he is celebrated during this time, it's like the old end time of the season.

Belcastro

EnochWasRight


Luke 3 tells you that the Son of God created Adam. Genesis 1 tells you that Elohim (plural) created mankind and the universe. Genesis 2 tells you that the LORD (Son of God) created Adam, the same as Luke 3.



Careful. The Redeemer is Adam. Jesus is the first and last Adam according to 1 Corinthians 15. If you hound him, since the root of the trouble was originally in him, you will suffer judgment. Why? We are all slices from the one loaf of bread we share.

Jesus Created himself and incarnated into adam?

Maybe you are mistaking when they say LORD(in the Old Testament), they really mean LORD GOD and they are reffering to jesus's father who you say was himself.

If jesus is the first and last adam, and adam caused the fall of man, then really it seems more like jesus was punished for his own sins during the crucifixion. if jesus is adam.

edit on 25-10-2013 by Belcastro because: (no reason given)

You have created your own premise by not reading the post thoroughly. Jesus is the Son of God, created by God. The Son of God created Adam, as I listed from Genesis 2 and Luke 3. It was a willing sacrifice to become entangled with mankind. He Sacrificed Himself for us. This is the point.

If you read 1 Corinthians 15, you cannot mistake Jesus for God. Jesus is the firstborn over all creation and Colossians 1 explains His purpose and His relation to God above. The Bible is clear concerning the relationship.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


But you said that Adam is the redeemer, and you called Jesus the first and the last Adam...? If Jesus was the first Adam, he brought sin into the world correct?

Romans 5
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned

So how is Adam the redeemer if he is also the one who brought sin into the world? How could Jesus be sinless if he was the one who first brought sin into the world? He is, as you say, the first and last Adam after all.

I think Belcastro made a very good point. Jesus (first Adam) brought sin into the world then came back thousands and thousands of years later to suffer for and forgive us of the sin he gave us (last Adam)?

That's some wacky stuff there.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Read 1 Corinthians 10 and 15 closely. Read Colossians 1. We, who are many, are ONE loaf. We are slices. The Son of God is the loaf. According to the Jubilee laws, a Kinsman Redeemer must release the captives. Only a payment from a Kinsman will work according to God's law. The Son of God willingly entered HIS seed into mankind for this purpose. Go back to the Genesis 6 account where other seed was spread into mankind. ONE seed was from the firstborn over all creation and this was for the specific purpose of redeeming us from the error of the others. The Son of God did this FOR us and not to us.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Say we are slices of the loaf, Jesus is the loaf itself, and sin is mold on the loaf. If all the slices (us) have mold on them because of sin, how is the loaf (Jesus) any good at all? Would you eat moldy bread?

How can Adam be the redeemer if he was the first to sin?

reply to post by Belcastro


Exceptional OP.

To answer the question as simply as possible... yes.

But to understand how is to begin to "see" spiritually, and God willing, it can begin a work in the mind of the one choosing to understand.

I will only focus on Jesus Christ's death and the subsequent events to keep the understanding as simple as possible.

The Jesus Christ you see in churches today, the one weakly hanging on a cross, with long hair IS NOT THE TRUE JESUS CHRIST. The golden crucifix and the image displayed on it worn by so many Christians today is a complete lie. The Greek word used in scripture numerous times when describing Jesus Christ's death regarding the device with which he was put to death is Stauros. It translates completely as "wooden pole, stake, upright wooden stick" it is not and never was the word used to describe a "cross" or "two pieces of wood crossed", there is already a completely different Greek word for "cross" and it was not the one recorded.

Why would Satan want mankind to ware golden crosses around their necks? Why make a "sign" of the cross when praying. Where did the "cross" as a religious symbol originate?

Egypt. More specifically in Egyptian sun god worship, which has its origin in the post flood Babel.

Throughout the ages this sun god worshiping religious concepts were scattered to different parts of the world when the languages were confounded at the destruction of the Tower of Babel. The same 'god' trinity used in sun god worship (father sky, mother earth and the son/Sun) was suddenly translated and interpreted in 70 ways. When you study pagan religions you will find remarkable similarities among the various cultures that worship in this manner.

The one consistency among the sun god worshipping cultures was to worship the Sun on Sunday, the 1st day of the week named after the Sun.

Some examples of the cultures which have this 'trinity' and base their origin in Sun god worship are:
- Egypt (Osiris, Isis, Horus)
- Babylon (Murduk, Easter, Balus)
- Assyria (Baal, Asteroth, Maloch)
- Greek (Zeus, Hera, Apollo)
- Rome (Jupiter, Juno, Apollo)
- Nordic (Odin, Freya, Baldur)

So how did these concepts which are clearly rooted in Sun god worship (cross, gold, trinity, Sunday worship) become associated with Christianity? Why when Jesus Christ did not wear golden symbols around his neck, nor value gold, nor worship a trinity of gods (One God, the Father) nor worship God on Sunday?

The book of Acts begins the story of the hijacking, and the Counsel of Nicaea in 321AD completes it.

Simon Magnus (Simon the magician/wizard) was a Roman Pagan high priest living in Galilee during the beginning years of the young church, he saw Peter working miracles and performing the "laying on of hands" ceremony (required for the receiving of God Holy spirit in the mind of one called out). Acts records him as approaching Peter and requesting the secret behind how he can give the Holy Spirit to other (not understanding it is God who gives His spirit though the minister, not any power Peter had of himself).

Peter rebuked Simon Magnus, called him the son of the devil and cast him out of the presence of God's people. But Simon Magnus' story did not end there.

At the time of the early church the Roman pagan sun god worshipping religion had its seat in Rome of course. The head of the Roman pagan church was called Patar (father of fathers in Latin) Simon Magnus a few years after his encounter with Peter the apostle ascended to the position of Patar of Rome; he became known as Simon Patar of Rome.

Years later at the counsel of Nicaea in 321AD, the Roman Universal Church (Catholic) used the image of Simon Patar of Rome and placed his statue right across from their pagan obelisk at the center of power. They claimed he was Simon Peter the apostle, and the first true Pope (father of fathers = same word meaning as Patar) of "chirstianity". At that same counsel they destroyed the need to keep the Passover (required of all God's people) and replaced it with Easter; pagan fertility holiday (rabbits, eggs, fish on Friday/Freyasday), they establish a "chirstsmas" holiday as a front for the ancient pagan winter solstice festival (Evergreen tree covered in gold, wreath on the door, mistletoe, Santa and his 8 reindeer as opposed to Odin and his 8 legged reindeer blessing good kids with gold and bad kids with coal). They destroyed the 7th day Sabbath that Jesus Christ kept faithfully with Sunday, the day of the Sun god. They took the ancient symbol for the sun a "cross" and placed the false image of Jesus Christ upon it in gold as a thing of worship.

Then they killed anyone who disagreed with their counsel decisions as "heretics".

The true Jesus Christ had short hair, it would have been sin for him to have long hair; only nazerite jews were aloud long hair during their service in the temple, they could not cut their hair, nor eat anything that comes from a grape (wine, vinegar etc.). Jesus Christ drank wine, therefore he couldn't be a nazarite jew or he would have been found guilty of sin. He was a strong man, a carpenter who worked hard for a living prior to his ministry; had survive the cat-tail lashes due to his strength, most would have died. And last he died on a stake/pole/stick, in a straight up position, with both hands above his head and both feet below and a single nine inch nail for both hands and one for both feet (2 total).

That is the true image of Christ at his death. The false image worshipped today is not true and came through the hijacking of God's truth established by and through Jesus Christ by mankind as influenced by Satan.

Remember the words:

"There is One God the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth" - Jesus
"Remember the Sabbath Day (7th day) to keep it Holy" - Jesus
"Thou shall not worship any graven image, nor anything that is on the Earth nor in heaven" - God
"Call no man father/patar/pope, for you have but one Father, the Almighty in heaven" - Jesus
"Keep Holy the Sabbaths of the Eternal (weekly and annually), they are a sign forever that you are my children and I am your God" - God

What is the manner we should judge those wanting to join in the faith?
"If a man comes in my name, but keeps not the commandments of God, he is a liar and the spirit of truth is not in him" - Jesus

God Bless,

Akragon
reply to post by Belcastro

 

Do you believe that jesus was God?

Nope, He was the son of God, not God in the flesh... his followers misunderstood what he was saying... likely because they were jewish... In that particular religion any association with God is blasphemy, which was why he was killed in the first place...

He called himself the son of God, so to a jew he must have been God also... or he was nothing more then a blasphemer... and his followers couldn't consider their saviour something like that...

Jesus never once claimed to be God... It just didn't happen, and if it did his followers would have definitely written it down... Christians wouldn't have to go through the nonsense they do to make the claim that he was God... It would be written in at least one of their testimonies, but it wasn't.

By calling Jesus God Christians make him an idol, and call him a liar by omission...

And "Satan" had nothing to do with anything... HE does not exist

You can think of satan as the manifested whole of the ego-dualistic part that can be unsymbiotic with everything else that exists in every ego. In that sense the demonic and satan exists as part of the ego

Simply put... Satan is the excess of wants and desires of the physical world... Nothing technically "entered" judas... He was overcome by greed, giving his lord over to the wolves for a meager price. And just so you know i am not a Christian, and Jesus never once claimed to be God... But he is Lord and the saviour of the world

Sorry soul brother did not see you post before I wrote mine so in this case it seem we have similar ideas.

borntowatch
What does the average person understand the Old Testament to be about

Other than God bringing about a way to salvation

The whole Old Testament is about Jesus, everything is about the coming Messiah.
Every story, every word is a lead up to Jesus coming to free humanity from the law.

The law demands sin is punished, Jesus was the punished, for sin.

"Do not think I have come to destroy the law, know that I have NOT come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it." - Jesus

In spirit and in truth it is in keeping the law of God only by the spirit of God dwelling in the mind of a called out one that truly sets you "free" from the bondage of sin (selfish thinking). Only God's spirit is capable of keeping the law in spirit and in truth; therefore only if you have God's spirit dwelling in your mind (through the laying on of hands) and are without sin (ever so briefly) through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ can you begin to attempt to keep it, in spirit and in truth.

Jesus Christ's sacrifice was to allow the forgiveness of sin (be forgiven for breaking the law) through repentance (change how one thinks), not an allowance for sin (done away with).

This is why the gift of repentance (change how you think) through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is so important. Every time you break the law you are guilty of sin (the law is NOT done away with), then by the grace of God and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ you can be forgiven of that sin (breaking of the law) by the repentance (changing how you think) of it, according to the word of God, in humility and faith.

"sin is the transgression/breaking of the Law" - over 40 times in scripture, many of which are recorded in the New Testament after Jesus' death.

God Bless,

reply to post by Belcastro

Would you agree that its ok to worship jesus as a messiah or son of LORD GOD of the old testament, or do you also accept the worship of jesus' Graven images as we see today?

I thought I explained it perfectly really.
No one comes to the Father except thru Christ.
He is the Son of God because he came in the Flesh.
But he was one with God as Gods Word before that.
Jesus Christ is the Word and the Word was with God.
You see ? Jesus Christ is God come in the Flesh.

reply to post by Belcastro


In my the bible god has a name, his name was revealed to mosed as "I AM" (ehyeh) but he is to be called "he who is" (yahweh).

Yahweh is the name of the God of moses, Jesus also believes moses was a prophet of god so they both (moses and jesus) worshipped Yahweh.

Yahweh flooded the entire planet, asked for sacrifices of goats, approved of killing innocent children in war and approved of slavery.

I would say Yahweh is the true "Satan" and Jesus was bring nice to trick people into worshipping this god.

So yes, Yahweh, The God of the world, the god called "jealous" with vengeance being his name, who loves war made Jesus and idol of the world. .....



TOO LONG ; DIDN'T READ?

In short,

Bible god = vindictive control monster

Satan = rebellion of the tyranny

Jesus = deception to bring people to the bible god