The Tea Party...Why are they so Dangerous?

reply to post by Pejeu


It doesn't seem like we are writing in the same language.

I've been against the globalists all the 45 years I've studied them.

I was disappointed to realize that the fallen angel critters were fallen angels and that they are in cahoots with them.

Sounds like you've bought some inaccurate propaganda along the way to think that the critters involved with the globalists are not evil etc. etc. etc.

Your reality is not mine.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


doubt away.

I have no intention of providing the Google or other search engine links for those issues. They are available with due diligence . . .

Believe whatever suits you.

The evidence is around.

reply to post by Dfairlite


The Koch Brothers are the right wing version of George Soros. Both are big money puppetmasters who pull strings behind the scenes to advance corporate agendas. I don't think mentioning them is an automatic win, however it is important to remember that The Tea Party is not the salt of the Earth grassroots movement it pretends to be.

What's more, the agenda of the Tea Party will make us slaves to corporations all while screaming how it's saving us from becoming slaves of the government.

Freedom for people. Regulations for corporations. Show me a party that adheres to this notion and I will sign up immediately.

RobertAntonWeishaupt
reply to post by Dfairlite

 

The Koch Brothers are the right wing version of George Soros. Both are big money puppetmasters who pull strings behind the scenes to advance corporate agendas. I don't think mentioning them is an automatic win, however it is important to remember that The Tea Party is not the salt of the Earth grassroots movement it pretends to be.

What's more, the agenda of the Tea Party will make us slaves to corporations all while screaming how it's saving us from becoming slaves of the government.

Freedom for people. Regulations for corporations. Show me a party that adheres to this notion and I will sign up immediately.

You already are a slave to corporations. If you watch television, you are slave to the networks, whether they are on cable or antenna. You are a slave to the corporations when you have to go out and buy clothing, food and other necessitites and pay for gas for your car. You are a slave to corporations when you get on the internet, because some corporation owns the service.

Everything in our lives are manufactured and sold by corporations. Do you barter with your friends and neighbors for necessities? We could go back to the barter system, but that's still what we have now, money is bartered instead of goods. So you are stuck as a slave to the system and every time you spend a nickle, it goes to a corporation.

the truth is stranger than fiction


www.youtube.com...

video debunks most of the Tea Party "talking points" with logic

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER

Why would you post such crap in such a condescending format..


Is this how liberals talk amongst themselves?

Deficit hasnt decreased since 2009 except about by 1Billion until the Republican sequester.

Debt hasnt gone up because wallstreet tanked the economy.

Democrats tanked the economy.

FreeMason
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Why would you post such crap in such a condescending format..


Is this how liberals talk amongst themselves?

Deficit hasnt decreased since 2009 except about by 1Billion until the Republican sequester.

Debt hasnt gone up because wallstreet tanked the economy.

Democrats tanked the economy.

i guess im sick of the small minded, petty pr spin bs we keep getting feed by people
who should either know better or refuse to look at the fact that a slick campain
of buzz words are being used to whip up people into a frenzy
and push for policies that dont work or make sence.

if the only thing you will listen to is buzz words and fear,
then my plan is to deny the right to spread ignorance.

why does it matter if it 17 trillion or 20 trillion?
what is this fixation for an abatrary number?
you do realise that the debt celing and debt problems have been around for decades?

and only now do you try to do something about it because,
of the fear and pr spin that 17 trillion is a majic number that means doom

i think from the behaviour and lack of understanding of real word complex systems,
someone needs to point out the fallacies of the buzz words and fear pr

you are being played,
you are being forced to support people who dont give two hoots about you,
and are riding a wave of propaganda to force austerity onto the world.

look at grease, thats what you are supporting,

the rich get richer and the poor die.

dosnt sit well with me enough just to let a few pr spin masters,
whip up fear driven bs,
to convince people to destry their own economies for the benifit of bankers.

xploder

BO XIAN
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

doubt away.

I have no intention of providing the Google or other search engine links for those issues. They are available with due diligence . . .

Believe whatever suits you.

The evidence is around.

Aha. Translation: "I don't have any evidence, but if I flail my arms a lot and hum real loud I might be able to persuade people that there's something to nothing."

reply to post by XPLodER


Absolutely! What is a few thousand million dollars anyway. I don't know how anyone can become so convoluded as to believe that we need debt. We as a nation had little or no debt all the way up until the second world war and we did not colapse. You are just spouting liberal talking points that don't make sense and are not true. Our economy needs a small amount of growth in order to support population increase but in a healthy economy growth comes naturally. You also seem to ignore the fact that our gov takes in billions of $ every month in revenue. Sure sometimes after I pay my bills I'm a little strapped but only untill the next payday. To say thay paying off or reducing the debt and or deficit would leave the nation broke or "game over" as you put it, is ridiculous and no thinking person would pay off all the credit cards and as a result have no money for food or rent. They would pay it down slowly while cutting back on unnecesary spending like for example they might cut their domestic spying program that costs billions of$. There is a ton of cutting that could be done with minimal damage to the economy but that is not the agenda is it. The agenda is spend lie borrow, spend lie borrow, spend lie borrow.
As the wealthiest nation that has ever supposedly existed there is no sain reason to borrow any money at all ever except in time of war (I mean real war that is for our national defense, not polical or resource based wars that we start). I wonder how much debt Bill Gates has. According to you paying interest should make him money but I bet if you asked him, he would say that he pays his credit cards off every month in order to avoid paying interest because that makes sense. I am sure that every financially sound corp. does the same.
Examples of companies borrowing money are irrelevent, companies are producers trying to turn a profit. Our gov gets money no matter what they do. They don't prduce anything, they just keep getting paid. They don't need to make money like a business does. If a corp got tax money every month they wouldnt every borrow a dime.
The tee party are dangerous only to the corruption that has led us here and that is why they are villified no matter who tries to buy their way in and hijack it. The biggest threat to big corps and big banks and big gov is a real patriotic 3rd party like the tee party who have real ethics and cannot be bought to throw a wrench in the gears of this sick machine.

BO XIAN
reply to post by Pejeu

 

It doesn't seem like we are writing in the same language.

I've been against the globalists all the 45 years I've studied them.

I was disappointed to realize that the fallen angel critters were fallen angels and that they are in cahoots with them.

Sounds like you've bought some inaccurate propaganda along the way to think that the critters involved with the globalists are not evil etc. etc. etc.

Sounds like you're a shill for the 1% banksters and financiers.

The 1% banksters and financiers ARE the evil globalists.

They make money out of nothing and gift it to each other, among themselves.

They are the money changers mentioned in the Bible.

A massive redistribution of wealth (spreading it, as it were) is in order, worldwide.

Keep your Marzulli et al. fairy tales to yourself and out of discussions about the economy and politics.

Your reality is not mine.

Clearly.

RobertAntonWeishaupt
Freedom for people. Regulations for corporations. Show me a party that adheres to this notion and I will sign up immediately.

Show me a party that will outlaw banking altogether and confiscate the banksters and financiers' wealth and I will sign up immediately.

WarminIndy
We could go back to the barter system, but that's still what we have now, money is bartered instead of goods.

Congratulations. Very few people are able to understand this, that barter never actually went away, never actually was replaced.

We have only intermediated barter.

So the two halves of the exchange, from our own singular perspective, can occur in different times and places.

You barter your time and labour for money to then barter that for your daily necessities and small pleasures, in a different place and time.

Except not all people need to work for the money.

And not all money lent is temporarily sacrificed / deferred consumption.

All banks issue money out of thin air, at interest, each time they extend a loan.

It's not just the central banks that issue the money in the economy. The FED only issues the cash, which accounts for around 5% of the nominal money supply.

The rest (95% or so) of the money supply is fictitious cash conjured up by the rest of the banking system, whenever they extend a loan. They are merely drawing rights fraudulently issued against the 5% (which is not actually all in the banking system, even, so the ratio is even more skewed) of the money supply which actually exists.

Those near the money faucet or who actually own the money faucets profit. They profit handsomely.

Those far away from the money tap gobble up most of the inflation.

ALL BANKING NEEDS TO BE ABOLISHED.

FreeMason
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Why would you post such crap in such a condescending format..


Is this how liberals talk amongst themselves?

Deficit hasnt decreased since 2009 except about by 1Billion until the Republican sequester.

Debt hasnt gone up because wallstreet tanked the economy.

Democrats tanked the economy.

In the video it says it decreased AS A PERCENTAGE OF THE GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT.

Not that the GDP means anything, really.

Increasing the money supply increases the GDP.

The GDP doesn't measure or reflect REAL ECONOMIC ACTIVITY.

But then agin, neither is the DEBT itself real.

It's make believe.

Like 95% or more of your bank account.

reply to post by beegoodbees


if you try to take down the existing system with nothing to replace it you are doing no good at all,
you act like i dont care about the debt,
but without comprehension of its nature and cause,
you will blindly serve the creators of the SYSTEM OF DEBT,

i ask you in all honesty,
why now?
why when the deficit hits 17 trillion?
did it not matter when it was 10 trillion?

why is this the "amount" of debt that must not be passed?

why is it ok to war but not to feed and educate people?

why is this "patriotism" being feed by people who call for lower taxes on only themselves?

why does the idea that the timing of all this is not a co incidence not obvious?

how do you stop deficit spending without damaging your economy?

why do big corps "offshore" their tax money as to "avoid" paying their fair share?

why is it that "austerity" (fiscal responsibility) only benefits the same banks that created the need for bailouts?

why do people call for lower taxes for the rich when the poor have had stagnant wages for a decade?

i really could go on........

but ill wait to see if you address any of my questions

xploder

XPLodER
reply to post by beegoodbees

 

if you try to take down the existing system with nothing to replace it you are doing no good at all,
you act like i dont care about the debt,
but without comprehension of its nature and cause,
you will blindly serve the creators of the SYSTEM OF DEBT,

i ask you in all honesty,
why now?
why when the deficit hits 17 trillion?
did it not matter when it was 10 trillion?

why is this the "amount" of debt that must not be passed?

why is it ok to war but not to feed and educate people?

why is this "patriotism" being feed by people who call for lower taxes on only themselves?

why does the idea that the timing of all this is not a co incidence not obvious?

how do you stop deficit spending without damaging your economy?

why do big corps "offshore" their tax money as to "avoid" paying their fair share?

why is it that "austerity" (fiscal responsibility) only benefits the same banks that created the need for bailouts?

why do people call for lower taxes for the rich when the poor have had stagnant wages for a decade?

i really could go on........

but ill wait to see if you address any of my questions

xploder

I don't know how old you are but the 10 thousand billion dollar debt was a big deal in the 80s when Reagan was president. Last I knew everyone in the country and world knew that debt and deficits are bad things, not a necessity of economic growth.

Why is it ok for war? Seriously? To not get destroyed and taken over of course, having a debt free balanced budget isn't much good if you are dead.

People can do this thing called work to get money to buy their own food and clothes. Those incapable of doing so can be cared for without borrowing 17 thousand billion dollars.

The timing has to do with the current limit being reached and if the limit isn't raised the gov would be forced to stop borrowing and balance the budget Which is exactly what the tee party and any other responsible mature and knowledgeable person should want. It also has to do with the fact that this is the highest debt EVER for any entity that has ever existed and at this pace it will out grow the gdp quickly and that is pretty much game over, the point of no return quite probably, but these are uncharted waters.This deadline has been projected far in advance with simple math as every deadline is but this time we actually have some tee party people with the nads make a stand for the people and try to stop this slow motion train wreck in progress.

fiscal responsibility does not benefit banks. Borrowing large amounts of money from banks and paying interest for all eternity because you never pay off the debt is what benefits banks. That is financial irresponsibility.

I have not heard anyone suggest we should lower taxes on the rich only, I have heard it propose that we raise taxes on the rich only. The right wants lower taxes for everyone, The left wants higher taxes for everyone. It really is that simple.

The answer to the rest of your questions is corruption and greed, no doubt there is plenty of that to go around.

beegoodbees
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Absolutely! What is a few thousand million dollars anyway. I don't know how anyone can become so convoluded as to believe that we need debt. We as a nation had little or no debt all the way up until the second world war and we did not colapse. You are just spouting liberal talking points that don't make sense and are not true. Our economy needs a small amount of growth in order to support population increase but in a healthy economy growth comes naturally. You also seem to ignore the fact that our gov takes in billions of $ every month in revenue. Sure sometimes after I pay my bills I'm a little strapped but only untill the next payday. To say thay paying off or reducing the debt and or deficit would leave the nation broke or "game over" as you put it, is ridiculous and no thinking person would pay off all the credit cards and as a result have no money for food or rent. They would pay it down slowly while cutting back on unnecesary spending like for example they might cut their domestic spying program that costs billions of$. There is a ton of cutting that could be done with minimal damage to the economy but that is not the agenda is it. The agenda is spend lie borrow, spend lie borrow, spend lie borrow.
As the wealthiest nation that has ever supposedly existed there is no sain reason to borrow any money at all ever except in time of war (I mean real war that is for our national defense, not polical or resource based wars that we start). I wonder how much debt Bill Gates has. According to you paying interest should make him money but I bet if you asked him, he would say that he pays his credit cards off every month in order to avoid paying interest because that makes sense. I am sure that every financially sound corp. does the same.
Examples of companies borrowing money are irrelevent, companies are producers trying to turn a profit. Our gov gets money no matter what they do. They don't prduce anything, they just keep getting paid. They don't need to make money like a business does. If a corp got tax money every month they wouldnt every borrow a dime.
The tee party are dangerous only to the corruption that has led us here and that is why they are villified no matter who tries to buy their way in and hijack it. The biggest threat to big corps and big banks and big gov is a real patriotic 3rd party like the tee party who have real ethics and cannot be bought to throw a wrench in the gears of this sick machine.

edit on 22-10-2013 by beegoodbees because: (no reason given)

That is a few thousand billion dollars not million.

Pejeu

NavyDoc
Because that wouldn't be a fix, it would destroy economies and remove freedom from people. Not everyone wants to live in your statist utopia being controlled by your "elite" and forced to do things "for their own good."

You are either a bold faced liar or are as clueless as the other guy.

I'm leaning towards bold faced liar.

The banks conjure money up out of thin air to loan at interest.

Continually.

All banks do this.

It's what banks do and are, for pete's sake. And it's all they do.

That's why banks need to be chartered in order to operate, unlike other businesses.

They are chartered to issue money out of thin air to loan at interest into circulation.

edit on 2013/10/21 by Pejeu because: (no reason given)

NO, the liar here is you.

Banks take money. They loan it out at interest. People pay the money back with the interest. A portion of that interest earned from the loan is paid to the depositor as his interest. Very much like buying stock.

Read some history. Without the advent of banking systems, such as in Florence, the flourishing trade that helped the renaissance would not have happened.

Like the guys you want to emulate, the Nazis, you are just trying to find a scapegoat to justify your totalitarian dreams and you say the exact same stuff that one can find in Mein Kampf...almost word for word.

You are correct that the Fed "creates money" and you are also correct that a nation having a central bank tied to the government is a dangerous thing, but you are incorrect that a bank or a bank is intrinsically evil or fraudulent. Without banking systems, we could not have developed international trade back at the end of the dark ages and thus would have had a much more difficult time coming out of them

AngryCymraeg

BenReclused
reply to post by buster2010

 

The reason why some people think they are dangerous is because of the nutcases they vote into office.

A lot of us feel that Democrats "are dangerous" for the same reason.

See ya,
Milt

So who's the Democrat equivalent of Michelle "bats in the belfry" Bachmann?

LOL, Alan Grayson just to name one of many bat chit crazies!

reply to post by NavyDoc


I think you are both wrong and right. Banks are quite useful when they are dealing with real money. The problem we have with our system is that we don't have any real money. It is just paper and computerized digits. When all you need to be rich is a printing press the floodgates of corruption are opened.

Thanks alot Nixon

reply to post by Pejeu


I don't think any of you get it about money. First of all, money is an illusion and has been since we went off the gold standard. You think this is real money we are talking about? No, this value of money is just an illusion. That's why the Federal Reserve changes rates all the time.

Now think about this, you are told that you have a certain amount of money in your bank account or on your debit card or whatever. But what you really have is just numbers. Those numbers values can change every day. Even if you went to take out pieces of paper, you are being charged for doing so, and the value of those pieces of paper are not the same every day. There is a huge difference in pieces of paper and the value of those pieces of paper.

The government is not trading pieces of paper, they are trading numbers and the cleverly shifting the values. If the government wanted to tomorrow, they could completely erase the debt as Franklin Roosevelt did. But because we are not on the gold standard any more, then money is not valued according to gold, rather by the whims of who controls the numbers.

Let's talk about the illusion of money for a moment. As the debt of the government is based on numbers alone, the government then chooses which numbers to honor as money of which the government places value on in the first place. How did Franklin Roosevelt get us out of the Great Depression? But changing the value of money.

The government knows there is not enough gold to support the value of the numbers, but allows the numbers to get larger, without anything to back it up. Then you go to the bank and take out paper that you assume has value, but it only has a value set for that day. You might think you are taking out $20, but what you are really taking out is an illusion. That $20 has already paid the surcharge and interest rates for the day, and so the value of that bill is probably only worth $15. Then you pay for a 20 ounce Pepsi, two tacos and a pair of socks. You then have taken tangible products, but have now given the government numbers called taxes, including surcharges again. The Pepsi might have cost you $1.17 but you have also now paid the interstate highway gas tax to transport the Pepsi, you have paid for the wages for the truck driver, the sales clerk,the worker in the Pepsi factory, the chemicals used to make the Pepsi, the wages of the chemists to create the Pepsi. Now on top of that, you are paying all those people's insurance and given them numbers for their bank account. Some of them might have higher numbers than you. You didn't pay for that Pepsi with a piece of gold.

The store clerk earns about $7.50 per hour. How much Pepsi should they sell to earn their wage? So the company will overproduce Pepsi. In that overproduction, they don't sell all of the Pepsi and end up destroying much of it, so that's money wasted. But they have insurance to cover their loss. So it becomes a "floating" (pardon the pun) number based solely on interest rates set for the day. Pepsi is a huge corporation, but where do they keep their numbers? In a bank. These banks would not survive if not for corporations creating overproduced products that you consume. But then you are also paying for what you did not consume, and that number goes to the insurance company, who in turn puts it into their bank account, who in turns tells the government the numbers, but not the lost product. None of this is based on gold, but numbers.

What makes it an illusion is that even though you have tangible products, the Pepsi and tacos are consumed in a day, but now imagine 20 billion people buying Pepsi and tacos every single day. Now I ask you, how does the American market even have enough beef to support 20 billion people for tacos, and not only tacos, but grocery stores and other restaurants that sell it? So then prices go up, reducing the value of your money but money that is not based on anything tangible to begin with.

The problem with the debt ceiling is that the government has nothing tangible to prevent the value from going up, so they tell us they must raise interest rates, well, interest rates are not tangible either, they are simply numbers. What the government should do is base the value of money on an inflexible number, erase the debt, because now there is no need for numbers because something tangible backs it up. If there is nothing tangible to rely on, it simply becomes a number that is changed every day.

AlienScience
reply to post by whyamIhere

 

To answer your question from the title...they are dangerous because they are stupid. Blunt, yes, but it is the truth. They don't understand economics, they think big numbers are bad and will attempt to burn the whole damn thing down due to their lack of knowledge.

I see a group that has systematically been denied Rights others enjoy.

Which rights have they been denied?

I am posting a link to their Platform website. Name something you disagree with.

Sure, just about everything in their "Platform" I disagree with. Here are the ones I disagree with.

1. Eliminate Excessive Taxes: We are not excessively taxed...no where near it. Plus, if you really listen to the Tea Party, they are mostly concerned about the Rich not being taxed anymore...and they actually think the very poor who currently don't pay taxes should at least pay something. I disagree 100% with their mentality on this. Tax the rich who can afford it (that includes corporations), and leave the little guy alone.

2. Eliminate the National Debt: This is just dumb and comes from a complete misunderstanding of modern economics and the World economy. They repeatedly try to talk about the economy being like a household budget, and it simply is not. What they don't understand is that our Debt gives us power and allows us to grow...trying to pay off the debt would lose us power and cause us to shrink domestically and globally.

3. Eliminate Deficit Spending: Same as above. If you eliminate deficit spending, we contract our economy. If your economy is not growing, it's dying...simple as that.

4. Protect Free Markets: There is no such thing as a fair "Free Market". I'm a big proponent of fairness...and to ensure fairness, you need strict regulations. We never have had true free markets, but in the past when we had much less regulation we abused our environment and our labor force. Do you really want factories in this country like they have in China? Where people commit suicide on the factory floors?

7. Reduce the Overall Size of Government: They only want this to promote more corporate control over our country. I just philosophically disagree with them on this point. Some people think of "big government" as a bad word...I don't. And besides, they only want a reduced size of government for the things they dislike...but they want government directly involved in abortion and marriage...to the point that they want the government to actually control and define who can and can not be married. This is one topic where they show their true hypocrisy.

8. Believe in the People: People are stupid and need to be governed...enough said.

10. Maintain Local Independence: We are a UNITED country...not a collection of independent local municipalities.



Is that clear enough for you?

I was going to respond to all your post but I didn't have the patients to go through every point with you so I'll address the most idiotic point you made.

Point 2 is SO asinine that you're making amoebas look intelligent! The US sells treasury bonds which they pay interest on. Then they print money to pay these note off. The more money they flood into the market, the less these dollars retain their value. The only way they can bring these dollars back in is by monetizing the debt. We are to a point where we have more debt than we bring in. This hasn't happened since 1945 during WWII and no where near these levels. The more we print, the closer to us becoming the next Weimar Republic with drastic hyperinflation and the potential for a double dip recession!

The ole "Debt is good" was the same political speak the right was espousing during the Bush spending spree (which Obama now makes look like a day at the Dollar Store).

And reduced government was ALWAYS the intent of the founding fathers. The power was supposed to be in the states, not the federal government. The role was to protect our constitutional rights and protect us from foreign invaders. It was NEVER intended to have the power it has today. We are near dictatorial powers of the executive branch. The executive branch has usurped the state Representative powers by making congress absolutely obscure!

reply to post by beegoodbees


I replied the same as you, it just took me longer. And then when I had posted mine, I saw your post. So my point is your point also.