What is so scary about thinking, or discovering, your Religion is false?

AfterInfinity
And if I choose Hell, doesn't that mean I win? I think it does.

Someone on here (I don't remember who) said that the real winner in the end is the devil.
Revelation says that people do indeed get to heaven ... but not a whole lot of them.
Many are called .. few are chosen - that's what scripture says.
So doesnt' that mean the devil gets the majority of humans?
The majority of humans go to hell, so therefore the devil gets more and he wins over God.''

That is ... IF Revelation and the other scriptures on this are correct.

reply to post by logical7

Oh He owns you all, each atom you are made of and your soul. The biggest sign of His benevolence is that He not fighting you back as you wish but just waiting patiently.
And you don't make God feel helpless or beaten because you are again assuming wrongly that God wants all to get saved from hell( Loving God christian idea) God is fine with saving the ones who want to.

I am having a difficult time formulating a civil expression of my contempt for that ideology.

You assume the parameters of a challenge, then also assume what constitutes a win or a loss and then declare that you WON.

I am employing psychology to determine the sort of character your god is. Not a difficult process, I assure you.

The whole idea that God can be beaten by a mere mortal is odd and that cannot be God, its more the gods in greek/hindu mythology etc who end up beaten by a man's/woman's smartness etc etc.

Sounds like the people who invented your god had some severe insecurities regarding the ability to lose. The ability to lose is a strength, not a weakness. It says that the god is not afraid of the possibility of failing. That takes a certain moral fiber, something your god evidently lacks in the extreme.

Again, psychologically speaking, that is very telling.

The basic thing is that you don't set the parameters for anything. God has done that already and informed us. You have the mere choice of accepting them or not and God is fine with it. And this is the thing you cannot accept that anyone tells you how to do things. I wonder if you act the same with say a doctor or other experts, because if you think the All Mighty Expert is not good enough to obey, how would mere mortals command obedience/acceptance to their advice!!

Because they are human. They have every reason to be afraid, to lie and cheat and steal and kill, but choose not to. They have elected to follow a path of preservation, which tells me they have no reason to give me anything but the best in what they do. It's not what you are, but what you do with it, that determines who you are.

To all appearances, you have an inferiority complex. At all times, someone must be exerting supreme authority over the rest. That is the definition of being a sheep.

reply to post by logical7

I am open to admit and accept whatever the truth maybe because in Islam acting contrary to it means Hell and it makes sense.

Oh. Really?

I think you're kidding yourself. I think if you found out the truth once it is established was contrary to Islam, you would stick with Islam anyway....
or do you have the stones to go out and proclaim that Muhammed was a LIAR, that there was no "angel-messenger" who turned him into a murdering Douche-bag, and that ALL SOULS ARE SAVED?????

REALLY?!!!!

Maybe one day soon you'll have to prove it. Certainly you are young enough to live to see the day that the truth IS revealed, with science and the divine united hand in hand, PROVING there is no "Hell."

I think you'd probably have a mental breakdown and go on a murderous rampage of your own. You are starting to scare me. Already, you're probably all Jihady on me, and want ME to burn in Hell...right? Am I right??

For "insulting" your religious sentiments, insulting your God and your Prophet?

Yep, I've done those things. The thing is, I MEAN it. If you are only being "good" to avoid being thrown in Hell, you are a coward.

I am interested in being "good" because it's better for all of humanity, of which I am ABSOLUTELY a part. So what do you say to that???? That I'm a "fake" do-gooder?

Because you know what???? No matter HOW MUCH I dislike, even loathe, another human being, I DON'T WANT THEM TO BURN IN HELL!!! And anyone (you) who does, is not a "good" person. "Egomaniacal" strike a chord??? That's how your God behaves....and so is it the way you behave.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Someone on here (I don't remember who) said that the real winner in the end is the devil.
Revelation says that people do indeed get to heaven ... but not a whole lot of them.
Many are called .. few are chosen - that's what scripture says.
So doesnt' that mean the devil gets the majority of humans?
The majority of humans go to hell, so therefore the devil gets more and he wins over God.''

That is ... IF Revelation and the other scriptures on this are correct.

Sounds like the right moment to introduce this:

logical7
I am open to admit and accept whatever the truth maybe because in Islam acting contrary to it means Hell and it makes sense.

This must be something new because I have not seen you admit being wrong when proven as such .... and a few of your muslim buddies here don't ever man-up and admit their errors or that they have been proven wrong with facts. If Islam says that a person has to accept the truth no matter what it is ... even if it runs contrary to Islam ... then I have to say that there are some muslims running around here who aren't following that teaching.

Where exactly is the Islamic teaching that says Muslims have to accept the truth, even if it runs contrary to Islam??

Or did I misread what you posted and that's not what you are saying??

wildtimes
For "insulting" your religious sentiments, insulting your God and your Prophet?
Yep, I've done those things.

Actually, you haven't done those things. You simply told the truth.
If someone gets insulted about the truth being told, then it's HIS/HER problem. Not yours.
Telling the truth and using facts to do so isn't 'insulting' ... it's simply telling the truth.

Some people put religious indoctrination above facts and truth - which is very sad.
(and more than a bit frightening!!) Case in point

reply to post by logical7

I am merely pointing that it can stop if either the USA gov and allies stop or the brainless terrorists stop.

So it's a PISSING contest in your mind. Right?

You are telling me that if the USA gov/allies stop, that everyone in the ME will just go home, make tea for their neighbors, and have a fun little chat about how little girls really "ought" to be educated, but the reason the Taliban are preventing it is because they HAVE TO do something, and are REACTING, and have NO CHOICE?? Lame. Every person in their right mind has the option to NOT RESPOND TO A SITUATION.

If either entity would back off, then, WHO WOULD BE THE "BIGGER PERSON"??? Answer: the one that quits. The one that walks away.

And me believing that the Islamists would just "walk away", shake hands with their Shia or Sunni or Wahabi or Amiddiya or Salafi or Sufi neighbors.....is as likely as me believing that the sun won't rise tomorrow morning.

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, to use your phrase. The USA and allies could stop RIGHT NOW, and the idiots beheading other Muslims and shooting schoolgirls and blowing up mosques and markets and so forth would STILL be doing it!!

A grown-up response is to WALK AWAY. Sadly, the USA government is "dug in too deep" to do that; and the Muslims? Well, it's cowardice to blame "someone else for one's behavior."

"I'm only doing this because You are doing That!" What whiners. (And that applies to them BOTH - not only the USA/allies, and not only the Muslim killers. Schoolyard bullies with no remorse or regrets. See my thread on the drone operator who quit and is terribly conflicted now HERE , suffering from horrible PTSD....thanks to the USA admin and Military/Industrial Complex, he's ruined....and YOUR AGE. I hereby "invite" you to the thread to discuss your take on it.)

logical7
you are again assuming wrongly that God wants all to get saved from hell( Loving God christian idea) God is fine with saving the ones who want to.

That's actually really bad theology.
God doesn't make people and want them to go to hell.
God wants everyone to be in heaven with Him.
True, many don't get there. But he's not 'just fine' with people going to Hell.
At least not according to scripture.

Timothy 2:4 .... who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Ezekiel 18:23 ... Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the sovereign Lord? Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their wicked ways and live?
(*Death = hell Live = Heaven )

John 3:17 ... For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.

1 Timothy 4:10 ... This is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, Who is our savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 Timothy 2:3-5 .... This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.

2 Peter 3:9 ... The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

MANY MORE VERSES like that .... but you get the idea.
God isn't 'just fine' that people go to Hell. Not according to Christian scripture.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Actually, you haven't done those things. You simply told the truth.
If someone gets insulted about the truth being told, then it's HIS/HER problem. Not yours.

Agreed. Thanks for that....

sadly, in Muslim countries, people don't have that freedom (as you know). And I really want to know if logical7 DOES want me to burn in hell for what I've said.

But I doubt he'll answer that one.

wildtimes
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

and cute.

"Cute"????

That sounds a tad condescending, NAM aka Bob. Just sayin'. We need more peacemakers. Intermediarys, mediators, whatever you want to call them. It isn't "cute" - it's imperative for the survival of our specie.

Yes "cute". He wouldn't have taken it in a condescending manner at all.

As to cuteness, what I've found when I'm in the domain of joy and peace and happiness and inspiration, that the whole world is somehow "cute", you know like kind and pretty, more than just "nice" but almost playful. Cute is the best word I can come up with actually to try to explain what the kingdom of heaven looks like.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


All right then. Again, I'm glad you find such joy in your beliefs...I can see that you are basically a very happy person.


As they say, "Whatever blows your hair back, mon."

reply to post by wildtimes

All right then. Again, I'm glad you find such joy in your beliefs...I can see that you are basically a very happy person.

Sometimes, I think that's all that really matters. Then I watch someone discover joy in hurting someone else.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Then I watch someone discover joy in hurting someone else.

Yeah, or believing that "God" will hurt them (by proxy) and take care of it. Sick.

wildtimes
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

As they say, "Whatever blows your hair back, mon."

Ire mon, cool runn'n.

reply to post by wildtimes


The way I understand the spiritual philosophy and metaphysics of Jesus is that we are our own judge according to our own thoughts and actions, because all is one. In other words, he who shows mercy will have mercy shown him, and if we refrain from judging, we will not be judged, and, that until we forgive, we cannot be forgiven.

It's very simple and straightforward and it makes perfect rational sense and also lines up with Buddhist-style beliefs about Karma, and even there in the midst of a karmic paradox of sorts were we bear the burden of accumulated sin from life to life (which theoretically could lead to a type of karmic cataclysm of incarnating "problems"), the price has been paid to make us whole again and allow us to start anew, even now between lives while we're still on the way. Thus the "Gospel" of Jesus Christ really is good news, big time, for those who are able to receipt and accept and appropriate it's free gift of an intercessory grace, and hey we're all in need of redemption and forgiveness because we've all sinned and have all fallen short of the glory of God and of the life we were meant to enjoy, even to the full and to overflowing.

Being resentful of such a thing, as a radical, transformative forgiveness, from top to bottom and from the bottom, up, is really quite absurd, and rather humorous when you really think it all the way through..


Best Regards,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Thus the "Gospel" of Jesus Christ really is good news, big time, for those who are able to receipt and accept and appropriate it's free gift of an intercessory grace, and hey we're all in need of redemption and forgiveness because we've all sinned and have all fallen short of the glory of God and of the life we were meant to enjoy, even to the full and to overflowing.

It always comes back to the absolute and eternal self-denigration and subjugation of mankind to a hypocritical psychopathic narcissistic egomaniac whose odious and pompous standards are the epitome of our existence, and whose greatest dream is to sit in the middle of our millions-deep mass and bask in our adoration and worship of him forever.

This argument is pointless. You cannot free fools from the chains they revere. Please understand, NAM, I am not judging the players...I am judging the game. When I am faced with such an ideology, I cannot help but be disgusted. For those who willingly subject themselves to such a system, however, I am only deeply disappointed. And in many cases, resigned.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


It's an eternal gateway of Liberation, there's no subjugation about it, you have to read and try to see things from the POV of Jesus who really gave the PTB the gears, especially when we consider that they could not kill him, and who wasn't willing to stop short of anything less than an absolute redemption for one and all starting the outcast and the downtrodden. In him "God" is a friend of mankind. You've got it all wrong.

And from what I can tell the part of us that's resentful and offended by which is presented through Jesus, is the very part that has to go or be reintegrated, you know that willful pride of man who grasps for power.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

And from what I can tell the part of us that's resentful and offended by which is presented through Jesus, is the very part that has to go or be reintegrated, you know that willful pride of man who grasps for power.

I don't want power. I want to be happy. And quite honestly, God seems to be a slave to his pride. Even if he could exercise humility, I don't believe he would.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


He already did, at the cross, even as a man.

It's about a redemption, an atonement and a reunification, spiritually and psychologically where the best of the very has been preserved and protected and upheld from the POV of an incorruptible center and source who's M.O. is love.

Jesus is not separative or particularized (see his glorification prayer in John).

He is a God of love who yes deserves love in kind. He is love itself, as are we, when you get rid of all the nonsense.

A separative God requiring worship and submission isn't the God of Christ, but a devil, and therein lies the problem that many have due to the errors of interpretation and what has been lost in translation, in dogma and doctrine, which certainly isn't what Jesus had in mind, which was to enjoy koinonia with us, or an intimate participatory communion born of love in mutuality and in spirit whereby our "Great Work" that he left us is simply to join his circle of joy, making both our joy and his, complete.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by vethumanbeing

AfterInfinity
If I were so easily swayed, I would already be rolling over and letting him scratch my belly. As it so happens, I was born with legs of my own to stand on.

Stand your ground, its a legal definition for many states.
Still not sure where the animal-ossity/animosity comes from, I said the struck chords between you two are discordinant (MORE PIANO BLACK KEY MINORS STRUCK UNNEEDED). Niether one of you has distinquished/built a tall enough soapbox IDEA platform/OR ARE/HAVE AN EQUALITY as in (static); and your conversations have decayed in this standoff to mindnumbing personal attack bickering. If I were you AI Id covertly put in multiple doggy doors in NAMs residence and visit occasionally.