Being christian while rejecting important OT figures?

Christians, is such a thing even possible in your belief system? Can one really call himself a 'christian' if he/she dismisses key Biblical characters such as Adam, Melchizedek and Noah as myths...while speaking ill of the prophets Abraham and Moses? I know Jews and Muslims hold these OT characters in high regard.... But what about christians? Discuss.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


There are many parts of the text that say you must do this or believe that in order to be Christian. But the man they base this on says this:

John 13:35
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Oh geee ... what could have promoted this?
Nice to see that I'm living rent free in your head.

Christianity ... the religion based on the person and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth

Following the teachings of CHRIST. Not a mythological Adam and Eve. Not a debunked Noah. Not Abraham who may or may not have existed. Not Moses who was a murdering war lord.

Following CHRISTs teachings ...

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength
and love your neighbor as yourself. There ya' go.

So yes .... to a person can be a Christian without believing all the Old Testament folklore and mythology.

You already know that ... it's just that you don't accept the truth of that statement. Your problem is that you think everyone has to fit into a box with a label on it ... and real life doesn't work that way.

I don't think the OT can be rejected by a Christian, unless that christian is closed minded in terms of reading the book and considering the spiritual side of it rather than the literal. I don't think that it is an error to read only the NT either.

But I do find it to be an error when people associate the two testaments with different gods say one is evil and one is good.

In the parable with that guy Lazarus Abraham says at the end ' your family has moses and all of the prophets to listen to', which I think is to say the the OT is sufficient.

think of this scorpian: ' Then he called the bridegroom aside and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."'

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Oh, FFS, Sk0rpion! Are you serious?!!!!

YES. People can be Christians without buying the OT. The Gideon's bible doesn't even INCLUDE the OT.

It's pretty much obvious that NONE of those stories are 'true.' Not Adam/Eve, not Noah, not Jonah, and on and on.
They are PARABLES. Are you seriously that gullible? Or just that stubborn, confrontational, and poor at cognition?

Hey, what do you think about Malala? She's on the Taliban hit-list again...for wanting people to be EDUCATED!!!

You never did tell me - what is your age? What made you 'convert' from Christianity to Islam? How can you ask the OP question in clear conscience???

Can you be a Muslim without putting a fatwa on Ahmadiyya ideas? Without preventing women from driving, being educated, without having slaves and marrying/raping little girls, and having a harem, and lopping off people's heads?

RIDICULOUS.
A new low for you.
Discuss.

Oh gee .. look ... at least half the Christians on the planet know that acknowledging the truth about Adam and Eve not existing, and that evolution is a very good possibility, doesn't change the fact that they are Christians.

Darwins Theory of Evolution is Compatible with Christianity says Rome

@wildtimes.... Honestly I'd rather pay attention to the christians lay the verdict on supposed ''christians'' who dismiss important OT figures. This is going to be a strictly theological discussion. So unless you can present your case from a theological perspective... (as opposed to a personal p.o.v) don't bother with this thread.

wildtimes
They are PARABLES.

And myths. And folklore. And allegorical representations of theological concepts. And stolen stories from other cultures - like Noah's Ark story is an adaptation of the Sumerian "Epic of Gilgamesh. And much of it has been proven wrong .... like the Earth isn't 6,000 years old ... and humanity couldn't have reached this population level based on 3 pairs of reproducing humans from Noahs ark just a few thousand years ago.

AND NONE OF IT HAS TO DO WITH FOLLOWING CHRISTS TEACHINGS.

In America about 60% on Average believe in Noahs Ark and the other Old Testament fables ... which means %40 of Christians DO NOT and are still Christian.

80% of Catholics do not take the bible myths literally .. and they are still Christians

40% of Evangelical Christians do not believe in Adam and Eve and they are still Christians
That ticks off the evangelical scholars .. that these Christians understand the truth of Adam and Eve and yet they are still good Christians. But there it is. And many theologians at Christian universities have had to accept the truth that Adam and Eve didn't exist. And yet, those Christian theologians are still Christians.

Evangelical Christian Theologians Who Defend Evolution

There are tons of articles out there like this.
If the OP really wanted to ... he could find them.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I was raised a Christian, so I believe I have a leg to stand on....I was raised with it, and CHANGED MY MIND after realizing I didn't believe it, and so couldn't accept the 'creeds'. And it's not for you to tell me not to post in your thread. If I see a reason to, I shall. And I will.

But thanks for letting everyone know ahead of time that you don't like what I have to say.

Perhaps rejecting the OT stories as "fiction" or "myth" is the FIRST STEP to letting go of dusty, oppressive, negative dogma.

Saying I am unqualified is equivalent to me saying YOU are unqualified because YOU ARE NO LONGER CHRISTIAN.

See how that works?
An apostate challenging Christians? How come you get to do that, and I don't get to challenge Muslims?

It's inappropriate to open "rebuttal" threads. And since your favorite bag of tricks includes pointing fingers at others, it's about time you allowed yourself to be treated the same way.

WHY did you convert from Christianity? Do YOU still believe the OT stories? Do YOU believe Muhammed flew to heaven on a horse?

sk0rpi0n
christians lay the verdict on supposed ''christians'' who dismiss important OT figures.

Oh please. Your agenda is transparent What you are looking for is for a pile of fundamentalist Christians to come along and jump all over ME because I don't take the Old Testament literally. Just admit it. It's pretty clear.

Many fundamentalist Christians take the Old Testament literally.
Many other Christians do not. Many understand the allegory and folklore involved.
And many are educated enough to understand basic science disproves some of the stories.
That doesn't change either group being Christian. It's just that simple.

And your terminology ... 'lay the verdict on' .... like this is a trial ... how ridiculous.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I would say what my 9th grade history teacher said: all stories have some truth to them.

Every story is like a plant which has grown up from just a seed of truth.

Endeavor to find the truth and goodness of the plant, if you discard them then you are a wasteful fool.

wildtimes
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

I was raised a Christian, so I believe I have a leg to stand on....

In that case, how can a ''christian'' reject belief in Abraham, Moses, Noah, Melchizedek.... Considering they were all referred to/associated with Jesus?

|'m immediately reminded of the poem "Would You think it odd?" by the Great Sufi Hafiz.. goes something like this:

Would You think it odd if Hafiz said,
"|'m in Love with every Church,
every Temple,
every Synagogue,
and every kind of Shrine,
For it is there that | hear ALL the different names of the One God."

What category will You put the One that doesn't need a "Rule Book"? What happens if it is determined that Moishe (Moses) only turned in 2 slabs when there was 3 slabs and a written scroll?

ALL the Organized ®eligions™ are "different" this makes them the "same" Remove what is the "same" in ALL and Bingo!!! Ta Da 33º Masonry...

namaste

reply to post by backcase

To take them literally, when they have been proven wrong, THAT is what is foolish.
But whatever. Take them literally or not ... it doesn't change if a person is a Christian or not.
Oh ... btw ... there is an agenda with this thread and you are falling for it.

reply to post by backcase

Endeavor to find the truth and goodness of the plant, if you discard them then you are a wasteful fool.

And considering them, and 'trying them on' is part of studying that plant. Some plants have poisonous fruits, but their stems and leaves are edible.

My endeavor IS to try to find the truth and goodness of ALL the plants - and it is undeniable that some of them have toxic roots, leaves, fruits, stems, flowers, etc. Should one eat every bit of every plant that has been cultivated, without question?

No. The answer is "no."

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I told you I was "brought up" as a Christian. I NEVER believed all the silly Sunday school stories. What's YOUR excuse?

As a Muslim, you believe Jesus is the Messiah, right? So, again...do YOU believe all the stories of the OT literally?
Do YOU believe Muhammed flew to heaven on a horse? That Elijah never died? That Methusela lived to be 904.2 years old?

DO YOU REALLY??

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Still waiting on a response to the question .... I'll repeat it here because it's appropriate ... how is it that you think you understand Christianity better than 2000 years of Christian scholars ??? The majority of Christian agree that belief in the myth of Adam and Eve is NOT NECESSARY to be Christian. I gave some of the links showing this. So how is it that you, just casually reading the bible and being on a mission to discredit Christianity, think you know Christianity better than the Christian theologians ???

ACKNOWLEDGE THE LINKS PROVIDED

reply to post by wildtimes


just because of context I will post this :

Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"

-Genesis

Jesus leads us to health and it can be dangerous if he is not our focal point. I understand what you mean, but I would rather not judge and eat the foods which my Teacher gives me to eat.

I like talking like this lol

reply to post by FlyersFan


I said to understand them for what they are. Do so by the guidance of the spirit. The stories are there for a reason.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Yeah, he's got a butt-load (lol) of questions on his plate. NONE of them having been answered. Here or elsewhere.
Credibility in question.