Jesus rides with the cops—and taxpayers foot the bill

They don't want to help, they want to convert.

And it blatantly against the constitution, but republicans only care about the constitution when they're buying assault weapons.

reply to post by CB328


how can they recruit in an area that is mostly already christian....?

Thats like saying that Muslims want to recruit people in the ME....



They probably want to give comfort and guidance to people who need it in times of great need.

I really dont understand the knee jerk reaction to this culture. Republicans? They are republican pastors?

Where did you read that?

reply to post by tadaman


Read my post at the bottom of the last page.

This comes from the people who created it.

However, Montgomery police chaplain E. Baxter Morris stated that the opportunity can also be viewed as a means to evangelize the lost in the community. “There is an evangelistic advantage,” he stated. “That is, that once I float to your comfort zone, and we become one in our crisis, I determine what your spiritual needs may or may not be, and I may be able to share with you a word from Christ.”

link to article

reply to post by mOjOm


ok that is the agenda of one man. How does that show a trend for the entire program or those who are in it?

so if I find a single person with an extremist and radical ideology in the left in some other official office I can infer that they too are representative of the entire group they belong to and its leadership?

I know of criminals becoming cops so as to do greater crime...doesnt mean they represent all law enforcement

EDIT:

Also his comment is one of action towards his own community. "the lost" of the community. So if a muslim religious leader sets out to bring moral guidance to a "lost" person of his community in the only way he knows how, through religion, then he is an ass hole because people deserve to lose faith in life and resort to criminality without the burden of their own community members trying to bring them back to normality?

The place is Christian central....what did you expect? A 1000 dollar an hour psychologist offering them lattes?

This is their culture. Show some tolerance.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Explain this then, those who think our founding fathers were atheists or desired to promote the atheist religion:

The congressional sanctioned Bible.
www.freerepublic.com...

That sure is odd if you actually believe "separation of church and state" is in the constitution. Apparently our forefathers viewed the establishment clause a little differently. What they really wanted to avoid was the US becoming another official catholic nation or church of England nation. There was no question that Christianity was to be the dominant and most beneficial religion.

To that end it makes perfect sence to allow a true man of God access to the hopeless sinners who are morally challenged in their criminal behavior. Unfortunatley those who have been spoon fed atheism throughout the government controlled, education camp experience, can not fathom this.

The government atheists view the conversion process of a sinner as a crime, not something to be rejoiced over.

reply to post by tadaman


Would you be ok if these were Muslim or Hindu priests using tax dollars to spread the word of their holy texts to those that are vulnerable and traumatized? While a slight majority in Alabama is in one of the many Christian denominations, they are not they only ones in the state.

About 45.2% of the population were not counted as members of any religious organization.

Source

reply to post by SevenThunders


Yeah,

its not like religion has ever brought jaded and reckless criminals back to a life of normality and to a state of being productive members of society....no never.

Religion only makes wars and torture. sure.

reply to post by SevenThunders


So, you don't believe in freedom i take it? Or is it just freedom to believe in what you think people should believe in?

reply to post by xDeadcowx


If it was their tax dollars and it was for their community?

Yeah, who the hell am I to judge them.

There is a special police force for a jewish community not to far from where I work. I dont have a problem with that. They pay for it and deal with them.

reply to post by tadaman


Dude read what I posted on the other page first before labeling me the bad evil guy here ok. Seriously.

That quote BTW wasn't just some guy. Those and the other quotes are FROM THE ONES WHO STARTED THE PROGRAM AND ARE IN CHARGE OF RUNNING IT. So don't get pissed at me because the people who run the damn thing have an agenda which they openly admit to. You act like I'm telling them to say it or something.

My point is that Pastors aren't cops and cops aren't pastors. If someone wants help from the clergy then fine, go to church then and talk to a pastor. But you don't need to be sending out some kind of Cleric to crime scenes as if they have some special talent for crime fighting. There are other obvious reasons why this is a dumb idea but they've been covered already.

reply to post by mOjOm


first of all relax.

I didnt get emotional with you so dont with me please. No one said you were a "bad guy".

I asked you to have cultural tolerance. I will still ask that.

The pastors arent acting in a role of law enforcement. They are there for moral support.

That is all.

If I just killed a man, I would appreciate someone who can give me clarity and guidance as to what is going on in my head. Or if I just beat my wife because I have issues ( and am a scum bag), maybe someone should talk to me instead of just putting a spit bag on my head and chaining me to a chair.

Also maybe I would want someone who is not arresting me to talk to me about what I am feeling.....if possible someone from my community and with a similar background.

tadaman
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

so good for them. Perhaps some good will come of this. I know the cops will act differently knowing that a person like that is in the back seat with them. No losing their tempers and acting out.




that part of your statement i do agree with ,but that's about it

reply to post by tadaman


Look, I'm all for helping people better understand their problems and all that. Really I am. I just don't agree that this is how to do it. If this kind of thing would work then they wouldn't already have the problems they do. After all, like you keep saying, they are all Christians anyway right. Well then how is more of the same gonna help them out??

There is more to it, but I just don't care enough to bother. It's all been said already you just have to go read it. But understand, I know what you're saying believe me, I just don't think this is how you really help the situation.

P.S. I love you Avatar though!!!! Bill is the King!!!

reply to post by mOjOm


alright.

I am just trying to see the positive in this. I really am trying to see it from their point of view. I dont share their culture but I can appreciate what they are trying to do. I know there are many issues with this but ultimately its their problem. They may love it so hey...more power to them.

and thanks. Bill is king, yes. Love his work.

Have a good one!

Nothing helps ease the mind of someone who just went through something traumatic quite like the cold logic of knowing that were all just born to die, and in the end we were all just animals and there is no God or purpose to life, but at least a few tax dollars were saved and the progress of the human species void of God is well underway, so hurry up with getting through this all alone because tax dollars are thoroughly being used for more meaningful purposes anyways.

Really?

All religion aside, just having someone there to help you get through something traumatic is helpful and overall a good thing. It can avoid suicide, or even a violent outburst etc. I mean there are so many Christians out there who are fake as ever, but this to me is how real Christians should be, and yet some people are upset with it. Maybe you might think they are vulnerable, but they are not stuffing their belief down their throats. What is your solution? "I am so sorry your husband just got murdered mam, but take comfort in the fact that he is dead and you will never see him again ever, not in this life or any life because were all just born to die, but my cold logic and many degrees to further prove this should really warm you up." No thanks.

And on a side note, sure they are being funded by tax payers, but of all the things that are being funded by tax payers this actually goes back to the people. You know who else is being funded by tax payers? Congress and their nice well paid vacation on some tropical island while the country suffers.

reply to post by tadaman


You are trying to see the positive in it has made me try to do the same so here it is this is the only one I came up with.

Maybe having them in the car will keep the cops from abusing people……Maybe!

But still I think this would be better.

From OP

Wouldn’t it be better, if you’re dealing with family problems or social dysfunction, to have psychologists instead of ministers ride around with the cops?

Also with a counselor the PTSD cops may get some much needed counseling.

reply to post by honested3


Thats all fine and dandy. If someone wants to speak with a priest after a traumatic experience then more power to them. They can visit their church, or find a church if they don't already have one. There is nothing stopping them from contacting someone to help them through a hard time whether its a priest, or a psychologist.

That said, the church has no business using tax dollars and riding around with the police taking advantage of people in vulnerable situations. They have no business pushing their flavor of religion on someone who did not ask for it.

Put yourself in the shoes of the people they may be using this tactic on. How would you feel if a Muslim Imam came at you with all of their religious texts while you were in a vulnerable mindset and your own tax dollars paid for the training they got?

There are many very good reasons that church and state are supposed to be kept separate and this is one of those reasons. We live in a free country and having agents of the government pushing christian preachers on people is not something that should happen in a free country.

DC

reply to post by tadaman


It's the principle of the thing, really.

If public tax dollars—coming from Agnostics, atheists, Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Satanists (I personally know several in Alabama), and Wiccans—are being used to fund this program, then there had better be a Bodhisattva, Brahman, Imam, pastor, psychologist, Rabi, and witch in every single squad car.

What if the crime involved a Christian assaulting a Hindu? Do you think that the victim would want a Christian pastor coming to preach to him after a Christian attacked him?

What if it was some kind of massacre and a peaceful Buddhist monk was one of the injured victims? Do you think a devout Buddhist is going to find comfort and meaning from a Christian pastor? No way. Discussing the event with another Bodhisattva is going to give them infinitely more closure, insight, and help healing.

That's really what the core of the problem here is.

If money made by non-Christians is going to be used to fund this program, then it must include non-Christian counselors as well.

Otherwise, let the Parish fund the program if they only want Christians to be allowed to ride along.

It is unconstitutional to make non-Christians pay for Christian services that they do not believe in, do not want, and do not endorse.

~ Wandering Scribe

xDeadcowx
It takes a really sick mind to prey on the minds of those most vulnerable...

Of course there will be those that will cheer this as a victory. To those that would support this i have a question.

What if it was a Muslim Imam, or a Hindu Brahma that was riding along with these police officers? Would that also be acceptable? Would you support that in the same way you support this?

DC

edit on 10/12/2013 by xDeadcowx because: Removed reply as this is not directed toward OP

You stated the exact same question that I just stated on Facebook when posting this story. Kudos. The response from the christian so far in this thread was priceless. "Demonize everything else, cuz we're #1". Hey guy, Allah = God = Yeshua = The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

It's all made up.

dlbott

ScottishBiker420
I kids you not i had to do a double take to make sure it wasnt the joke forum!....really man......pastors,taxpayer funded!!!

2nd

They are not paid but turns out it is very successful program and the only one complaining is the atheist lol.

Go figure that, complaining about a compassionate program that is helping people, both victims and criminals but especially those lost in drugs and alcohol. Only an atheist could find something negative from that. Lol

The Bot

Got some stats on how it's actually helping, beyond "oh we're seeing it help soo many people" because there's a huge difference between actual statistics and confirmation bias.

However this is from the original article at theatlantic.com (linked from the OPs article)

www.theatlantic.com...

A second problem is that there is no evidence a program like this can have any effect on crime. Corp. Hicks, who created the program, said he did not consult any professionals for it. Rather, he based it on similar programs that were put into place in Dayton, Ohio and Arlington, Texas. However, those cities have not recorded data on the effect of those programs, so there's no indication they are a good idea to recreate. Police leaders of the program were called for comment on their personal opinion of the effectiveness of those programs, but none responded to voice messages. And two university criminologists in Dayton were contacted, but neither had ever heard of the program.

You know what Christianity is really good at doing to people? Inflicting guilt, doubt, and shame onto people who are already in vulnerable states of mind.

"If you didn't sin, God wouldn't have punished you." The irony is when the next sentence is that "God has plans for everyone" that they're basically saying that "God" sets people up to fail so he can punish them. You lot are all crazy and lack logic beyond circular jesus logic.

The bible tells me that jesus exists, and he exist because the bible tells me that jesus exists, and he exist because the bible tells me that jesus exists, and he exist because the bible tells me that jesus exists, and he exist because the bible tells me that jesus exists, and he exist because the bible tells me that jesus exists, and he exist because the bible tells me that jesus exists, and he exist because... etc.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


I concur with you.. fully. My next question is why law enforcement? Why not medics..you know ppl on the cusp of heaven looking in...may not have too much time to repent lol.. that mmakes more sense to me than police rides... what you better pray you can pay this speeding ticketed gave you? Come on now... logically it makes no sense to me.