I like Obamacare

reply to post by beezzer


Sounds like the ACA loans for health care cooperatives is a clever lure to suckle on the acrid teat of evil...

coastlinekid
reply to post by beezzer

 

Sounds like the ACA loans for health care cooperatives is a clever lure to suckle on the acrid teat of evil...

A disturbing mental image.

And some truth in it as well.

Yes, Dear Leader is good, very good!!

Its a good thing, a real good thing they did that, a very good thing.

Right everyone?

sonnny1

MystikMushroom
That's pretty sweet, but unless you had like at least a thousand family members and friends, it would cost way more.

Leave it to Beezer to find the most capitalistic part of the ACA!

edit on 11-10-2013 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)

We can start an ATS Healthcare Co-op!

I am willing to provide my services free of charge to the ATS Healthcare Co-op. My specialty is gyno-exams. All female members here, please submit your pic, and I will contact you for your free exam. It's the least I can do for this forum.

reply to post by beezzer


I had posted this to a different thread but I will repost it here for you and anyone else who thinks socialized healthcare is a good idea...

The Truth About Obamacare:

www.youtube.com...

A Doctor's View of Obamacare:

www.youtube.com...

Take it for what it's worth or ignore it...the choice, as always, is yours.

-Amitaba-

Eryiedes
reply to post by beezzer

 

I had posted this to a different thread but I will repost it here for you and anyone else who thinks socialized healthcare is a good idea...

The Truth About Obamacare:

www.youtube.com...

A Doctor's View of Obamacare:

www.youtube.com...

Take it for what it's worth or ignore it...the choice, as always, is yours.

-Amitaba-

Healthcare needs reform. Obamacare, ACA, single-payer, socialized healthcare, . . . . . . ANYTHING government mandated or government controlled is a hugely bad terrible idea.

howmuch4another
I'm in! Beezer you are brill!
I am looking for a way to make this work and it just hasn't been there.
$7000 in medical expenses with a $5000 deduct last year. Premiums for the family are $1200 monthly. my wife and I discussed the math and paying $19,400 for $2000 in benefits made us both facepalm. I would have been better off just paying for services to the tune of $12,000.

That is alot of money - does your work pay ?
When did health care in the US get so expensive - it wasn't always like this ?

I love my countries health care. My wife has had 3 babies all free and we never have to worry about if someone gets sick. We receive first rate care and I cant understand why anyone in their right mind would defend a for-profit healthcare system?

There is currently no system in place that will actually help the majority of Americans and that is sad. Most will not be able to afford the premiums and the only ones to benefit will be shareholders.

A government run healthcare system only sucks if your government sucks and I can see why Americans fear that because your government does indeed suck. My government is not perfect but at least I don't fear getting sick will bankrupt my family.

reply to post by Eryiedes


Socialized healthcare is good, we love it here in Canada. Can you please give me a rational explanation on why socialized healthcare is bad? No goofy links with bs please just an explanation I can understand.

reply to post by Slickinfinity


I'm sorry but if you are incapable of understanding the links I posted then you are incapable of grasping anything I could reply with as they spell it out in no uncertain terms and I would use the identical arguements to illustrate the hypocracy of socialized medicine. Even if I were to jot down the powerpoints ,as you ask, they would be too vague once condensed and the "evidence" you require, once more, would elude you.
It saddens me that a "canadian" who has experienced this nightmare would be so oblivious to the inherent dangers after living with the farce we have called "medicare" for so long.
If the resounding failures of socialist systems such as the former Soviet Union, China the UK NHS (and plethora of other global failures) while following the collectivised plan is not patently obvious then you are looking at this problem with "eyes wide shut".

-Amitaba-

reply to post by beezzer


I can't find any fault in what you just said but the problem goes much deeper than that.

-Amitaba-

reply to post by Slickinfinity


Socialized health care per se is not bad - but socialized health care run by government is very, VERY bad. Socialized ANYTHING run by government is very, very bad.

The reason is this: whenever government starts running programs like that, it allows them to dig far too deeply into your own personal affairs. It gives government far too much grip on you, the individual, rather than it being the other way 'round, as it ought to be. Instead of you controlling your government, it gives your government the hook to control YOU with, and that has never turned out well, ever, in the history of the world.

Furthermore, health care is not the business of government - governing is.

If that's not enough, consider this: there is no such thing as "socialized medicine" run by a government. Whenever government gets it's hooks into a thing, that thing is no longer "socialized", it is henceforth and forevermore POLITICIZED - never again socialized. Example: the US "Social Security" system. As a government-run retirement system, it outright sucks. Government has raided the till and left worthless I.O.U's in place of the funds that were there, and now is using it as a weapon to threaten people with if they don't pressure their representatives to tow the line and get with the administration program.

That's "government" for you.

I have been trying to get my local chamber to start a co-op for their business members. That would effect several thousand people, potentially. And it would allow mom and pop businesses to compete with the bigger companies that can leverage buying power for insurance plans.

reply to post by Slickinfinity


Yes Canada, Australia and all of Western and Northern Europe have free medicine - but it is not free of course it is paid for out of tax.

I was in Northern Italy a few weeks ago and I was really ill - I saw the GP the day I needed her - she charged me nothing and I am not even a resident - at the chemist my script / prescription was an antibiotic, it was 5 euros and the ventolin inhaler [ by GSK] was 4 euros.

I was very impressed.

reply to post by Eryiedes


Actually it might surprise you that NOT all medicine / surgery on the NHS is bad. Not all tax funded systems are diabolical - but I agree that the govt should butt out.

Healthcare should be affordable - no one in this day and age should be without pain killers or heart attack tablets or essential medicines - due to cost.

Especially not in a country as rich as the United States of America.

HelenConway
Not all tax funded systems are diabolical

On the contrary.
Since the foundation of involutary taxation is violence, anything built by virtue of said taxation is inherently flawed in it's conception regardless of what it espouses to accomplish.
(Clothe the poor, help the elderly, save starving kittens...whatever example you choose)
And yes...taxation IS violence, because if you don't pay these taxes, you get a fine.
You don't pay the fine, you get a summons to court.
You don't got court, you get a visit from the police.
You resist the police and they'll use their arsenal against you.
If you defend yourself against this arsenal, you'll be hospitalized.
And if you resist the attack with a weapon, you WILL be shot.
So, taxation is violence...and THAT'S why it's diabolical.

-Amitaba-

reply to post by Eryiedes


So is a non-taxed society with zero infrastructure, zero healthcare, and zero social programs (all funded by taxation usually) the solution ?

Then only rich and powerful people could afford medical care, housing, food, transport etc.

I thought you were dead against that sort of thing, the whole 'only the elite get the pie' ?

Theres a word for that.

So is a non-taxed society with zero infrastructure, zero healthcare, and zero social programs (all funded by taxation usually) the solution ?

It's called a social contract overseen by dispute resolution organizations. Taxation is violence. Voluntarism is not. Look up "anarchy" if you wish to know more.

Then only rich and powerful people could afford medical care

No as I just stated but once O-BWAHHH-macare goes into full effect, what you described WILL become a reality.

I thought you were dead against that sort of thing, the whole 'only the elite get the pie' ?

Now you are just putting words in my mouth.

Theres a word for that.

Yes, and you are full of it.
Consider this my final reply. There will not be another.

-Amitaba-

reply to post by Eryiedes


Voluntary taxation wont work, because not enough people would pay for the things that keep societies running.

This happens even now, tax shelters etc. and thats with involuntary taxation.

Get rid of money and maybe a system like that would work. Resource based and what have you.

You are being very disingenuous as you have authored a thread on how the elites want to keep all the good stuff and let everyone else suffer. You know, eugenics and all that. So I'm merely putting your own words back in your mouth.

Incorrect, the word was hypocrite.

These taxpayer funded cooperatives were incorporated into the Affordable Care Act to appease the President's most liberal democratic supporters. They couldn't get "single payer", so the Health Insurance Cooperative was the next best thing. There was supposed to be one in every state, but the Sequester squashed that number down from 51 states (Wash DC = 51) to something like 26 states.

Here in Illinois, the Health Insurance Cooperative is named the "Land of Lincoln Co-op", (aka LOL). What they did was contract with an existing nationwide PPO network of Doctors and Hospitals. The network name is HealthLink PPO.

Unfortunately, the monthly health insurance premiums with L.O.L. are, at minimum, 20% higher than the state's largest health insurance company, Blue Cross of Illinois. Due to Land of Lincoln costing more and being an unknown company, it's not expected to last long. As of 10/11/2013, after 10 days of ObamaCare open enrollment, only 4 people in the state of Illinois have signed up for one of their health plans.

F.Y.I. REF: www.landoflincolnhealth.org...

-cwm