Catholic Hatred. (Impossible Thread, Episode #2)

reply to post by WarminIndy


Thank you for that post, WarminIndy. I gave you a star, but wanted to thank you directly, as well.

reply to post by WarminIndy


appreciate the thoughtful response, Warm

...really; i do believe, as well, that souls are being called, indifferent they reside in catholicism, evangelical or judahite situations. No doubt.
- but the OP was about ' catholicism as system' .... see

btw
its not that 'a group of jews became christians, 2000 y ago'

- He was "looking for the House of Israel "[ the northern, dissapeared tribes]
and they were not ' jews'

regards

reply to post by adjensen


You are welcome. And thank you for the star. I think Charles1952 has had a lot of stars for this thread, and it has been a good thread.

Last night when I went to bed I went to sleep happy, because I thought about this thread. There seems to be a gentleness to charles1952 and it helps so much. I am going to a funeral today for a lady that I knew where I live. She was a very lonely woman, and somewhat Developmentally Disabled. A lot of people here were cruel to her, but I was not. I did not know how to speak to her very much on an intellectual level, all I could do was comfort her and address the people who said things to her that were very mean. I could not erase her pain though, because she simply did not know how to handle it when they said things.

The afternoon before she died, she was upset and crying and as I passed her, I turned to her to pat her arm and tell her it was going to be ok. That was the last time I saw her. Then as the people from the funeral home came to take her from her apartment, I asked them that as they took her through the lobby of the building that I wanted to say good-bye to her. They did stop so I could do that.

That night as I was just about to go to sleep, I sensed she had stopped at my door and then walked into the community room across the hall from me. She always went there. I think she came to tell me good-bye before she left the building.

She was Developmentally Disabled and had limited social skills. She did not know how to deal with cruel people and she didn't know she had the right to stick up for herself. I did for her as well as a few others. I have addressed those other people, but they are so arrogant, they think they are right, except for one woman who now walks with a lot of regret. Her head hangs down and I just don't want to talk with her right now.

We need to not be cruel to people, because when they go out of this life, we are left with the memories of how we treated them and it does lead to a lot of regret. The Bible is correct that the power of life and death are in the tongue.

Lone12
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

appreciate the thoughtful response, Warm

...really; i do believe, as well, that souls are being called, indifferent they reside in catholicism, evangelical or judahite situations. No doubt.
- but the OP was about ' catholicism as system' .... see

btw
its not that 'a group of jews became christians, 2000 y ago'

- He was "looking for the House of Israel "[ the northern, dissapeared tribes]
and they were not ' jews'

regards

Do you suppose He didn't have to look for the House of Judah because everyone knew where it was? Jesus was from Judah, so He didn't have to go look for Himself. And Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin and a Pharisee. That's pretty Jewish there.

But I think Jesus knows where the other tribes are, they are not lost to God. It's only people who don't know.

WarminIndy

Lone12
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

appreciate the thoughtful response, Warm

...really; i do believe, as well, that souls are being called, indifferent they reside in catholicism, evangelical or judahite situations. No doubt.
- but the OP was about ' catholicism as system' .... see

btw
its not that 'a group of jews became christians, 2000 y ago'

- He was "looking for the House of Israel "[ the northern, dissapeared tribes]
and they were not ' jews'

regards

Do you suppose He didn't have to look for the House of Judah because everyone knew where it was? Jesus was from Judah, so He didn't have to go look for Himself. And Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin and a Pharisee. That's pretty Jewish there.

But I think Jesus knows where the other tribes are, they are not lost to God. It's only people who don't know.

- yes exactly; everyone knew where the House of Judah was, as you say : in the territory of the South kingdom, since them both tribes had returned from Babylon with Ezra.

..but since that return, they also conquered a country SE of juda - Edom ; and those mingled themselves with the peoples of the Southern kingdom, and became 'jews'.

The Lord was not from Judah - but from the tribe of Benjamin [ though from the HOUSE of juda : that is, the whole Southern kingdom ] .
So - He was quite right to state 'I m looking for the house of israel '[ the northern kingdom] since those had been exiled in Assyria, and havent returned, since -
but went from there to trickle into Europe

..and yes im glad He knows where áll the members of the 12 tribes are,
since all 12 are dispersed
Because most of those members dont know themselves even they belong to it.

regards,

reply to post by adjensen


I like your tag line. Some do meet on Friday's and every other day of the week in the celebration of the Eucharist. The Mass is celebrated 24/7 as it is worldwide.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


If you mean the Tracey Jordan quote, it's intended as a joke towards those people who think that everything associated with the Roman Catholic church is some grand conspiracy. "The Pope owns Long John Silvers", lol.

Where in the Bible does it say to confess your sins to others?

I picked a non-Catholic translation.

James 5:16 English Standard Version (ESV) 16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.[a]

The priest carries the confessions he hears in the silence of his heart, sharing it only with God. He prays, sacrifices and fasts for the pentinent.

Catholics believe that when you confess the priest has God's ear.

I can't tell you what a great feeling has come over me after leaving the confessional. The weight of sin is quite a burden to carry.

My son carried with him for many years a sin he was too ashamed to confess. He shared it with me and I told him that the Priest has heard it all and offers kind words that help you to forgive yourself. One day I told him I was off to Confession and invited him to join me. He spilled his guts in that confessional. Leaving church he told me that as he received absolution he felt like he was being lifted from his chair. Cool beans!

One day on my drive to church to go to confession I prayed that God would let me know any past sins I had forgotten to Confess. He did, it was a biggie and I walked out of church and smelled roses where there were no roses. I friend of mine who previously smelled roses at the same time I did was there talking to other friends. I told her I smelled roses and asked her if she did, too. "No, they were meant for you."

adjensen
reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

 

If you mean the Tracey Jordan quote, it's intended as a joke towards those people who think that everything associated with the Roman Catholic church is some grand conspiracy. "The Pope owns Long John Silvers", lol.

Yes, this is what I was referring to and I thought it was funny as well.

I thought that some who have never stepped inside a Catholic Church might be interested to see what goes on. Weekday Mass lasts around a half hour and Sat night Sunday services an hour.

It is available on line for shut-ins, those in prison or anyone else.

Watching this may raise some interesting discussion. They ask for your email, but they won't be spamming you inbox.

www.thedailymass.com...

reply to post by Lone12

Dear Lone12,

Thank you for the lessons in your post. Allow me to acknowledge them before I get to what I think is the vital center.

I had not heard of the Nicoalites, and could only find them in the Haydock Commentaries on the Bible, published in 1859.

Of the rest, except Nicolas, nothing certain is known: their acts have perished. Nicolas, as appears from the text, was a proselyte, first to Judaism, then to Christianity. St. Epiphanius, and many others, accuse him of being, by his incontinency, the author, or at least the occasion of the impure sects of Nicoalites and Gnostics. Clement of Alexandria, and St. Augustine, acquit him of this, and attribute the above heresies to an abuse of some expressions, which he uttered in his simplicity, and which were susceptible of a good and bad sense. See Baronius and Tillemont.

haydock1859.tripod.com...

I'm not surprised I hadn't heard of them. (Of course, I don't think I could explain more than a couple of heresies, anyway.)

Thank you also for separating the Catholics from Catholicism. When I started this, I was thinking more along the lines of hatred for the system. It seems it's easier for people to have strong emotions towards abstract things such as: the flag, country, Obama (we're really concerned about his policies, not him), Zionism, and our favorite sports team.

The rest of your post is more challenging to me. Were I a better soul, I would simply be silent, and let others speak for me. But you have read the replies and stories posted above. No one is getting between these souls and God. Their experiences are true, deep, and intimate.

We've talked briefly about Catholic mysticism. Those holy men and women, are with God, to the extent that they possibly can be. Catholicism doesn't teach people to hang around a priest, waiting for something valuable to be uttered. We're told to bring our own souls to God. Oh, the Church will help, all right. The Mass, Confession, the teachings for when our minds are faced with doubts and questions are all only a part of what the Church hopes we will do.

But read again, the stories posted here. Remember the people who wake up in the middle of the night and decide to begin praying a Rosary, or an Our Father, or simply "Jesus! Help! I'm in a real mess." Consider the people who are inspired by a Saint's life, or those who just wander into an empty church to pray. There is no one between those people and God. That's how it should be. God offers salvation to each man as an individual. Our conscience is our own. We all know that our eternal condition is decided between us and God. We have to go to God with only Jesus as our mediator.

But I'm not saying there is no role for the priest. He was given the power to bind our sins, or loose them. He was chosen to celebrate the Mass. His job is the care of the sheep entrusted to him.

Oh, Blast! I'm not saying what I want to say.

If you're thinking about the Church as a gift shop, I'm Ok with that for some purposes. Let's say I buy a piece of music at the gift shop and listen to it at home. It may be that it is calming music, soothing the troubled soul. It may even have lyrics which turn my mind toward God. A similar experience might be had with the painting you mentioned, or the candle.

But the owner of the shop is not God. These things are provided by the Church and its faithful, to turn your eyes to the owner of Creation, not just the owner of the shop. The Church is the shop, offering us tools and aids in our own individual journey. We can choose our own aids, because Catholics take many paths. Some respond to ornate Icons, heavy with history and symbolism. Some tie two sticks together cross-wise. Some listen to creeks, some to Handel. Some pray the written prayers of the Church, some compose their own.

The shop is vast. There is help available to all who are journeying, no matter which path they are taking. Whatever their need, it can be met. But the shop (or the Church) is a service. It is fulfilling the responsibility Jesus gave it, to "Feed My Sheep." It's a spiritual delicatessen.

In another sense, you're quite correct. The shop may be the Church, with the Pope as its head, but God is its final owner, just as he is the final owner of everything.


I'm almost sure I've missed your point. Better to re-read WarminIndy, sad_eyed_lady, and the rest. The Church places no barrier between them and God. Or, thankfully, between you and me and God.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


We all do eventually confess something to others. We all need to be graceful and listen to what they say. If people have comfort in being able to find absolution in a priest, then we need to allow them the opportunity to do that.

Some people talk to therapists and seek absolution from them as well. So it's not just about absolution, but finding comfort.

In the United States, before a person is executed in our penal system, even they are given the right to clergy of their choice so they may confess or pray with the clergy member. It is so fundamental to us as humans to have that moment in which we can confess, that even people about to be executed who know they are about to go out of this life, still ask for spiritual help. It's too bad they didn't ask for spiritual help before they committed their crimes.

Ted Bundy asked for James Dobson to talk with him. At least James Dobson was graceful enough to go talk with this man just before his death, and Dobson does not allow Bundy to excuse his behavior, but just to allow him to confess. I don't think it's something that I could do myself, so it takes a special kind of grace.

But in my life, people have confessed many things to me. I am not going to tell what they said.

charles1952


There have been a number of threads and posts declaring Catholicism to be Satan worship, with it’s adherents condemned to Hell. What’s behind this hatred?

I see no hatred in preaching against the false doctrine of the Catholic Church. Even Paul preached against Gnosticism, which Catholicism is a descendant of. If you want to see real hatred, take a look at the Catholic and Protestant churches who have in the past murdered those who have had different beliefs.

charles1952

Who has a harsh word for the Episcopalians, Presbyterians, or Unitarian Universalists?

Those groups are as lost as Catholics are.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Everyone has the right to practice as they believe. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I had the pleasure of having coffee this week with a new found friend who was raised as a Quaker. She shared with me a scripture passage that meant volumes to her as it was good news she hadn't heard in her youth, something she desparately needed to hear. I put it out here for you and all. If it touches anyone as it did her, awesome.

Romans Chapter 8 1 Thus, condemnation will never come to those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because the law of the Spirit which gives life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death.

There have been a number of threads and posts declaring Catholicism to be Satan worship, with it’s adherents condemned to Hell. What’s behind this hatred?

What is behind any hatred? Hatred is not of God. Its coach is Satan. Just saying. I had to come to love everyone even if I abhor the things they do. (See my signature)

Love to you and all.

reply to post by truejew

Dear truejew,

Hello, I haven't seen you for a while, but that's my fault. Glad you're here.

ATS, may I introduce you to a dogged debater who has created a lasting impression in my mind? Truejew! Take a bow, truejew. Truejew was stunning in his performance in this thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
If you are a fan of "no holds barred" debating (I don't happen to be), you should check out his work in that thread. From Pages 6 to 138, he argues against the idea of infant baptism, and against the formula commonly recited while baptizing. (There is also some controversy over individuals in leadership positions.) If that's your cup of tea, check out his work.

I see no hatred in preaching against the false doctrine of the Catholic Church.

You know, I don't think there has to be, either. But there could be, and sometimes there is. There is a vast difference between gentle, loving correction and vicious attacks. Any church should be willing to enter into discussions with other Christians to clarify, or even correct, it's teachings if necessary.

Even Paul preached against Gnosticism, which Catholicism is a descendant of.

I'm a little confused by the idea of "descendant" as you use it. I am a descendant of someone who was incredibly unlike me. If Catholicism is incredibly unlike Gnosticism, then I see no problem in it being a descendant. If you believe that Catholicism is, basically, Gnosticism, we have an issue we can explore.

If you want to see real hatred, take a look at the Catholic and Protestant churches who have in the past murdered those who have had different beliefs.

I'm sure hatred was involved in some cases, and in others it was just very aggressive attempts to save the soul of the "heretic." Wrong, of course, but not necessarily hatred.

I don't know if we've already touched on this issue, but I'm not surprised there were killings. First of all, believers are only men. "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Second, many of those terrible events occurred when violence was all over the world. It was a way of life, as wrong as it was. The Islamic invasion, not stopped until France. Medieval times with Knights and Armies marching to and fro, and Kings shouting "Off with his head." Kings running religions and Popes with armies. There were some really upside down times.

Who has a harsh word for the Episcopalians, Presbyterians, or Unitarian Universalists?

Those groups are as lost as Catholics are.

Amazingly enough, Catholicism is more broadly forgiving, and more willing to countenance the idea of non-believers in Heaven, than you seem to be. I'm a big fan of a God of mercy, probably because I need so much of it.

Anyway, glad you're here, and I'm looking forward to your comments.

With respect,
Charles1952

sad_eyed_lady
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Everyone has the right to practice as they believe. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I had the pleasure of having coffee this week with a new found friend who was raised as a Quaker. She shared with me a scripture passage that meant volumes to her as it was good news she hadn't heard in her youth, something she desparately needed to hear. I put it out here for you and all. If it touches anyone as it did her, awesome.

Romans Chapter 8 1 Thus, condemnation will never come to those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because the law of the Spirit which gives life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death.

All I can say is Amen.

Amazingly enough, Catholicism is more broadly forgiving, and more willing to countenance the idea of non-believers in Heaven

Charles, I am glad you mentioned this. What merciful God would comdemn someone who never had the opportunity to know God or misunderstood the nature of God? I do believe that we all will get a chance to know Him in the next life. Atheists can be wonderful people with loving hearts. Faith is a gift and if they were not given it in this life they should not be deprived of the opportunity to chose a relationship with God in the next. IMHO.

Oh look, it's everyone's least favourite troll!

truejew
Even Paul preached against Gnosticism, which Catholicism is a descendant of.

So, is this claim made because of your ignorance of Gnosticism, Catholicism, or both?

Never mind, of course it's both.

ETA: It doesn't look like the "fruit" falls far from its tree. I found this on your buddy Gary Reckart's web site, which we all know is nothing but hateful rants against anyone who doesn't agree with his dumb theology, which is pretty much everyone on Earth.

(Source)

And let's not forget his promotion of demonstrated fraud "Sister Charlotte". Quite the guy.

reply to post by truejew

Paul preached against Gnosticism, which Catholicism is a descendant of. If you want to see real hatred, take a look at the Catholic and Protestant churches who have in the past murdered those who have had different beliefs.


"charles1952 wrote: Who has a harsh word for the Episcopalians, Presbyterians, or Unitarian Universalists?"


Those groups are as lost as Catholics are.

Wow.

Just, WOW. You know what, truejew? You are one of the most hateful, judgmental, and unpleasant people I have ever come across.
Too bad you can't wake up to yourself.
Good luck with .... with....whatever.

Not seeing much of a compassionate, loving attitude there....