Pope Francis: Church's 'obsession' with gays, abortion and contraception means it could 'fall li

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

I just read a most amazing book on Scribd

Your "amazing book" is Seventh Day Adventist propaganda -- the publisher is "Harvestime Books".

Personally, I don't take advice from a cult that was started by a series of failed "prophets".

reply to post by adjensen


By all means ignore the history and facts. This is so typical of those who refuse to examine the facts and just want to stick to their dogma. That is your right, but don't pretend it comes from any basis of truth. You are just scared to face the truth.

The RCC is an amalgam of pagan beliefs and systems with a coat of Christianity. "They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me" is what Yeshua / God said. Others will look at it, will examine the facts presented and see it for what it is. The RCC is not Yeshua's body. Many are deceived who do love Yeshua because of the dogma and their ignorance, and they crawl behind baseless claims that it's 7th day Adventist. God can speak through a jackass if He wants. Truth is truth just as a rose is a rose no matter what you call it. Smell the roses.

reply to post by 1104light


One Star well deserved, the 'POPE' - is merely one false image - wonder who chalk's-up his script these day's???
-oh yeah, I am a Roman Catholic bt the way.

reply to post by FlyersFan

I just read he spoke before a group of gynecologist today told them not to perform abortions.
Do you think he could be a little off his rocker ?

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


You may want to look at your sources with a more critical eye.

The Mithras that used Sunday as a day of worship was the Roman Mithras, not Persian. That means that it was done AFTER Christ, not before and as such, the borrowing was on the behalf of the Mithras worshipers (Mithrates?).

There was no equivalent of the consumption of the Host in the worship of Mithras. The closest one can come to that was a claim in a medieval text but it was attributed to Zarathustra, not Mithras.

The term 'Pontif' was a carry over from the use of the word when referring to the Jewish high priests as seen the in the Vulgate where it was used to refer to them 59 times.


Eric

UnifiedSerenity
By all means ignore the history and facts. This is so typical of those who refuse to examine the facts and just want to stick to their dogma. That is your right, but don't pretend it comes from any basis of truth. You are just scared to face the truth.

Unfortunately, this seems to apply more to you than to to those you direct your comments to.

I'd suggest that you actually research the claims made against the RCC. If they are solid and based on verifiable fact, than fine. If they aren't, such as with the Copy Cat theory and the work of AcharyaS, you may want to consider what else you've been told that isn't accurate.

Eric

reply to post by EricD


Yes, the scribes would never play word games. Priest in Hebrew is Cohen. Thus no sense of Pontiff, but that's ok. You want to pretend sun worship came after Christ, that is your delusion. You can not claim the Catholic church did not change the times and Feasts of the Lord to absorb Pagans. The nice tree worship where God specifically said to never fix a tree to stand and decorate it with gold and silver. Oh, I know it's all so inconvenient to know the truth that they changed Passover to Easter for Ishtar worship. Or the celebration of Messiah's birth to coincide with Saturnalia and orgy high feast day of the Romans.

The facts are plainly known. It's a shame so many wish to think they are above God. The Church believes the Pope and priests can determine who is forgiven and who isn't. It's IN THEIR writings. It's not some pagan throwback. I don't enter a debate I am ill equipped in, so if you are going to challenge these facts, I hope it's not some more meaningless unsubstantiated comments, but real facts.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.



"The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ." "The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ." Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.) Ferraris' Ecclesiastical Dictionary.

"The Pope is of great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret even divine laws... The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth." -Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Ribliotheca, "Papa," art. 2, translated.

"The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed...the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority." Canon and Tradition, p. 263

What day did God say the sabbath is? It's Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?

Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday." The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd ed.

Ah, those lukewarm Laodiceans who God said in the book of revelation He wished they were either cold or hot, but as it would rather spit them from his mouth. Sort of as one hates that skin that forms on chocolate milk as it become barely warm.

The Catholic church seeks to control the world and it always has. It knows by getting control through ecumenicism that people can be controlled way beyond who they bow a knee to. They work, their fear is all theirs to feed off of once again. You see, they did it in the past and they want to do it again, and that is what Ratzinger and Francis are really doing. They pretend it's about singing Kumbayah, when it's really about changing laws worldwide and using their authority to manage their empire. I know you won't read any of that book, watch a video to avail yourself of the truth.

So, ignore the RCC own words, ignore their history, and ignore what is happening right now. Why are countries instituting Sunday laws? I wonder what mischief can be had if people don't obey them. Many in the past were beaten, jailed, and murdered for it oh, it was all legal, so it's ok, right?

reply to post by adjensen


So, if you are a Christian and they are Christian and they say "Jesus is Lord" then you are going to say they are liars?

LOL ... yeh, that's what I thought. One of the most intellectually dishonest things I see by many on ATS is they refuse, absolutely REFUSE to examine facts presented by groups they don't like. I call that ego, pride and fear. I am not afraid of examining anything because if what I believe is true then no matter what is brought forward the truth will prevail.

I liked the book, but it's not the first time I have been aware of this information, but it is well presented. Do you believe sun worship only came about after the Roman Catholic Church or Yeshua came and did his work? I really want to hear your answer on this, because if you are truthful, then you will know the RCC is a sun worshiping organization. Why is it so many churches (Protestants) included have Easter SUN RISE service? So laughable.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


You made three very specific claims that I responded to. To refresh your memory, here they are:

1)Sunday Christian worship is derived from Mithra worship.
2)The Eucharist is taken from Mithra worship.
3)The use of the term Pontiff was taken from Mithra worship.

When I responded to each point (whether or not you believe my reply to be salient), you accused me of claiming that sun worship didn't predate Christianity (not what I said and not what you originally posited) and then you bring up other issues (which I'm happy to discuss).

Before we move onto those other issues, why don't we finish our discussion about the three points I responded to?

Can you please show us where Sunday worship of Mithra predates Christianity?
Can you please show us where there is a direct parallel in Mithraism(sp?) to Catholicism?
Can you please show us where the term 'Pontiff' was a term used specifically by Mithraists(sp?) and provide evidence that it wasn't a general term used by the Romans to describe the head of a religious order?

As an aside, I have no idea what the appropriate term is for Mithra worshipers, so I apologize for (I'm sure) messing that up.

Again, I'd be more than happy to move onto your follow-up claims as soon as we finish addressing what is currently in discussion.

Thanks,

Eric

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Wake up, Dude. Seventh Day Adventism is a cult. One proven false by the failings of Ellen G. White and her stupid predictions of the future, none of which came to pass.

You want to tie yourself to 24 hours of the Jewish calendar and think that your salvation comes from that?

Good luck. I'll choose Jesus, and the mercy of God.

reply to post by adjensen


I am not a member of the 7th day adventist church. What if I said your church is a cult does it make everything you say wrong? Your argument is just one of fear. Deal with the facts presented rather than say, "it's a cult it's cult" you know the best lies are in 90% truth.

Refute what the Popes and church as said in their own writings. Deal with the Catechism. Deal with them saying the Pope can determine what is God's will, what is truth, and what can and cannot be forgiven. Then maybe we can talk.

I will remind you that Yeshua said to do what the Pharisees said, but don't do what they do. Do you not understand that just because something is wrong with a group does not mean everything they say is wrong.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

I am not a member of the 7th day adventist church.

Then you shouldn't cite their sources or their books.

UnifiedSerenity
Refute what the Popes and church as said in their own writings. Deal with the Catechism. Deal with them saying the Pope can determine what is God's will, what is truth, and what can and cannot be forgiven. Then maybe we can talk.

I apologize for interjecting, but I've seen Adjensen discuss Catholicism many, many times on ATS, so I assume that she/he would be happy to do exactly as you ask above.

I would, however, request that instead of jumping from claim to claim, we actually discuss some of what you posit and then move on to the next item. That seems reasonable to me, but feel free to let me know if I'm off the target.

May I suggest that we discuss your claims that:

1)Sunday Christian worship is derived from Mithra worship.
2)The Eucharist is taken from Mithra worship.
3)The use of the term Pontiff was taken from Mithra worship.

Regarding those points:

Can you please show us where Sunday worship of Mithra predates Christianity?
Can you please show us where there is a direct parallel in Mithraism(sp?) to Catholicism?
Can you please show us where the term 'Pontiff' was a term used specifically by Mithraists(sp?) and provide evidence that it wasn't a general term used by the Romans to describe the head of a religious order?

Thanks,

Eric

reply to post by EricD


Rather than putting me on the hot seat of answering your questions which always seems to happen in discussions where I bring up counter points, and take the time to answer question after question, why don't you deal with the issues I raised about the Pope and the scriptures I used and the sources I cited from the RCC own records.

You and I deal with those topics and we can talk about pagan religions that made their way into the church.

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by EricD

 

Rather than putting me on the hot seat of answering your questions which always seems to happen in discussions where I bring up counter points, and take the time to answer question after question, why don't you deal with the issues I raised about the Pope and the scriptures I used and the sources I cited from the RCC own records.

You and I deal with those topics and we can talk about pagan religions that made their way into the church.

I'm not trying to put you on the hot seat. You brought up those three points. I thought that they were worthy of discussion. To be clear, you stated:

RCC has it's roots in Mithra Sun god worship and uses the veneer of Christianity to hide the real source of their worship. I am not saying sincere Catholics are worshiping Mithra, but the church certainly is mimicking Mithra worship from its rituals, is Sunday worship, it's lifting the host (eating the body), to its vestments and even the use of the word Pontiff

If you aren't able to defend your claims, then we can drop it.

Would you prefer that we discuss something that you feel that you are on more solid ground with?

If your other claims are too difficult to substantiate, provide a link to any of your posts in this thread that you would prefer to discuss and we will discuss that. All that I ask is that if I do address your post of choice that you don't respond with obfuscation and moving the goal posts.

Eric

stormdancer777
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

I just read he spoke before a group of gynecologist today told them not to perform abortions.
Do you think he could be a little off his rocker ?

He, who? The Pope?

He didn't say that the church should support abortion or change its teaching on the matter, he said that there are other issues out there which are being ignored because we're too focused on a handful of matters, including abortion.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't still talk about it, it just means that we need to talk about other things, as well.

stormdancer777
I just read he spoke before a group of gynecologist today told them not to perform abortions.
Do you think he could be a little off his rocker ?

No. I think that is the appropriate place to be bringing up abortion .. with people who work in the field. When he said not to be obsessing about homosexuality, contraception, and abortion he said that because there are, according to him, bigger issues that the church and world need to deal with at this time.

As much as I really like this new pope, I have to disagree with him on saying that the church obsesses about these things. The average priest at the pulpit hardly ever brings these things up and nearly every Catholic I know doesn't give a hoot about homosexuality or contraception. As for abortion - unfortunately it is going strong in the world so I don't think it's being brought up enough.

FlyersFan

As much as I really like this new pope, I have to disagree with him on saying that the church obsesses about these things. The average priest at the pulpit hardly ever brings these things up and nearly every Catholic I know doesn't give a hoot about homosexuality or contraception. As for abortion - unfortunately it is going strong in the world so I don't think it's being brought up enough.

How do I trade all the Catholics that I know for all the Catholics you know?

1104light
How do I trade all the Catholics that I know for all the Catholics you know?

Unless they have a 'no trade' clause, it shouldn't be too difficult. Make a strong offer, throw in a promising minor league apologist and maybe a clergy to be named later and you should be able to work out a deal.

Eric

I don't see the problem here. I like this pope better than the old one. This one sounds like he thinks for himself and recognizes the futility of Catholic tradition in the face of modern culture.