Attention all Christians: The Church Age is an age of total Prophetic Silence!!!

Hi, this is my first thread. I wasnt sure which topic I wanted to raise first, so as a dispensationalist, I thought it would be good to establish a basic Church Age priciple.

The Church was started on the day of Pentacost on the year 30 AD. That was the day that the Church recieved the Holy Spirit, and temporary spiritual gifts such as healing, tongues, visions and prophecy where distributed by God for the propagation of the Gospel. But, as stated, these gifts were only temporary, as the permanent ministry of the Holy Spirit is a much more effective tool than prophecy.

Examine,1 Corinth 13:

"8 The love doth never fail; and whether [there be] prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless; 9 for in part we know, and in part we prophecy; 10 and when that which is perfect may come, then that which [is] in part shall become useless"

Verse 10 says that when the "perfect" comes, or is complete, these gifts will cease. Now, we know that the "perfect" obviously refers to Christ. But, what many fail to see is that Jesus is the Word incarnated, and the Word of God is the mind of Christ. Therefore, these temporary gifts stopped functioning at the competion of the canon of scripture in 94 AD.

It is said by most dispensationalists that the Church is a bridge of time that fills in the gap between Israel's 69th and 70th week. I hold this view as well, therefore it has become obvious to me that the parenthetical walls of this time bubble are the pausing of prophecy in 94 AD, and the Rapture. The completion of the book of Revelation marked the beginning of TOTAL prophetic silence so that we can make use of the Holy Spirit to guide us, while the Rapture terminates this unique phase of the Angelic Conflict.

With all this in mind, I would like to point out that no specific prophetic event must take place as a sign of the imminent Rapture. By this I mean, no recorded or spoken prophecy. Jesus did tell us to watch for increased wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and famine, but none of these can be classified as prophecy. They are cyclical Historical Trends. It is up to us to make good use of the Holy Spirit via 1 John 1:9 to accurately read these Historical Trends for maximum understanding of God's plan for the Church.

My motivation for posting this thread is to confront these false notions that the establishment of the Neo-Zionist state in Palestine in 1948 was some how fullfilment of prophecy, and the idea that the blood moon tetrad had some magical role in God's plan.

These political conspiracies are evidence of Historical Trends, and its time that we dispensationalists realize it.

Im not saying that the Rapture is not near. Judging by the frequency and intensity of seismic and volcanic activity since 2008, the geo-political hurricanes, the proxy wars and waning faith of the masses, I would say the end is around the corner. But, nevertheless, we must not lose perspective of the situation.

Let use open an intellectual conversation regarding the subject at hand.

Thanks.

BELIEVERpriest


Im not saying that the Rapture is not near. Judging by the frequency and intensity of seismic and volcanic activity since 2008, the geo-political hurricanes, the proxy wars and waning faith of the masses, I would say the end is around the corner. But, nevertheless, we must not lose perspective of the situation.

Let use open an intellectual conversation regarding the subject at hand.

Thanks.

Really...

Acts 2:17-18

"'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. "

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

Jesus did tell us to watch for increased wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and famine, but none of these can be classified as prophecy. They are cyclical Historical Trends.

Wars, earthquake and famines are signs.... and will play out in the background, as major prophetic events come to pass.

My motivation for posting this thread is to confront these false notions that the establishment of the Neo-Zionist state in Palestine in 1948 was some how fullfilment of prophecy, and the idea that the blood moon tetrad had some magical role in God's plan.

The arrival of the modern state of Israel is a fulfillment of a negative part of prophecy.

Much like how the false Messiah appears before the real Messiah, the false Israel has arrived before the true holy Israel ruled by the Messiah. (I am actually working on a thread about the same subject.)

God knows best.

(I am not a Christian)

BELIEVERpriest
Hi, this is my first thread. I wasnt sure which topic I wanted to raise first, so as a dispensationalist, I thought it would be good to establish a basic Church Age priciple.

The Church was started on the day of Pentacost on the year 30 AD. That was the day that the Church recieved the Holy Spirit, and temporary spiritual gifts such as healing, tongues, visions and prophecy where distributed by God for the propagation of the Gospel. But, as stated, these gifts were only temporary, as the permanent ministry of the Holy Spirit is a much more effective tool than prophecy.

Examine,1 Corinth 13:

"8 The love doth never fail; and whether [there be] prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless; 9 for in part we know, and in part we prophecy; 10 and when that which is perfect may come, then that which [is] in part shall become useless"

Like you, I'm a dispensationalist...
...but you have a logical flaw here. You use 1 Corinthians 13:8 to claim that prophecy etc. ceased after 30AD... when in fact, 1 Corinthians was written well AFTER 30AD, and claims that prophecy "SHALL" cease, not that it "HAS CEASED".

By the time of writing 1 Corinthians, Paul was already well into the Church Age. Why then does he speak of the cessation of prophecy as being something yet future?

BELIEVERpriest
Verse 10 says that when the "perfect" comes, or is complete, these gifts will cease. Now, we know that the "perfect" obviously refers to Christ. But, what many fail to see is that Jesus is the Word incarnated, and the Word of God is the mind of Christ. Therefore, these temporary gifts stopped functioning at the competion of the canon of scripture in 94 AD.

I think you are completely missing the point about WHY prophecy fails.
It is not some arbitrary drawing of the line- "I will give them prophecy up to the point when I think they can manage without it".

The gifts of prophecy and knowledge were required in the present world because we don't have direct knowledge of God.
They are a substitute for the direct knowledge of God.
Therefore Paul's point is that they will disappear when (and only when) we DO have direct knowledge of God.
He makes this clear over the next couple of verses.
"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face"- v12
"That which is perfect" refers to the condition in which we see God "face to face".
Obviously Paul is leading up to the conclusion that only love and faith (our trust in God) will survive into that condition.

We do not now see God "face to face", so there is no reason for us to be deprived of the substitute. There is no reason why prophecy should fail.

reply to post by DISRAELI

The gifts of prophecy and knowledge were required in the present world because we don't have direct knowledge of God.

They are a substitute for the direct knowledge of God.
Therefore Paul's point is that they will disappear when (and only when) we DO have direct knowledge of God.

Correct. We won't have direct knowledge of Jesus until the Millennial Kingdom starts. At that time, no one will prophesy, because everyone will know the truth and the ones prophesying lies will be found out and punished.

Zechariah 13:2-6

2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the Lord: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.

4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:

5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.

6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

BELIEVERpriest
I would like to point out that no specific prophetic event must take place as a sign of the imminent Rapture.

I would like to point out that there is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture. That is an invention of failed Anglican priest, Nelson Darby, in the 1800s. "Rapture" is not in scripture. In fact, just the opposite is in scripture - the good stay and the bad are taken off Earth. No "get out of tribulation free' card has ever been given to any of God's faithful. As a matter of fact, just the opposite usually happens. Those who follow God (or Jesus) usually suffer greatly.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest


Church and Intellectual?

Hard to imagine. interested to see that pulled off

benrl

BELIEVERpriest


Im not saying that the Rapture is not near. Judging by the frequency and intensity of seismic and volcanic activity since 2008, the geo-political hurricanes, the proxy wars and waning faith of the masses, I would say the end is around the corner. But, nevertheoless, we must not lose perspective of the situation.

Let use open an intellectual conversation regarding the subject at hand.

Thanks.

Really...

Acts 2:17-18

"'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. "

The key word in Acts 2 is in the last days. Prophecy always involves the Holy Spirit, but that doesnt necessarily mean the indweling of the spirit. The last days are not untill after the rapture.

FlyersFan

BELIEVERpriest
I would like to point out that no specific prophetic event must take place as a sign of the imminent Rapture.

I would like to point out that there is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture. That is an invention of failed Anglican priest, Nelson Darby, in the 1800s. "Rapture" is not in scripture. In fact, just the opposite is in scripture - the good stay and the bad are taken off Earth. No "get out of tribulation free' card has ever been given to any of God's faithful. As a matter of fact, just the opposite usually happens. Those who follow God (or Jesus) usually suffer greatly.

Im sorry, but that is simply untrue, God owes Israel 7 more years of discipline. That time does not belong to the Church. The Church's tribulation ended in 70 AD, but that was not the 70 th week.

If God is no longer giving prophecy to the Church...

What were you doing prophesying a date for the return of Christ in the other thread?

truejew
If God is no longer giving prophecy to the Church...

What were you doing prophesying a date for the return of Christ in the other thread?

Your uncanny ability to misinterperet text is not limited to the Word of God. Re-read my first post. I said prophecy stopped in 94 AD with the writting of Revelation, and prophecy will resume with the Rapture (aka removal) of the Church.

In between the two points, there is no prophecy, because the Church is an interruption of the transition from the 69th to the 70th week.

I know you misunderstand the 7th week, but that doesnt mean you have to take my words out of context.

BELIEVERpriest

truejew
If God is no longer giving prophecy to the Church...

What were you doing prophesying a date for the return of Christ in the other thread?

Your uncanny ability to misinterperet text is not limited to the Word of God. Re-read my first post. I said prophecy stopped in 94 AD with the writting of Revelation, and prophecy will resume with the Rapture (aka removal) of the Church.

In between the two points, there is no prophecy, because the Church is an interruption of the transition from the 69th to the 70th week.

I know you misunderstand the 7th week, but that doesnt mean you have to take my words out of context.

I did not misinterpret your text. Unless you are going to say that the rapture has already happened, you have prophesied between "the two points". If you admit that your prophecy was not from God, then you must admit that the prophecy is false. You would be a false prophet in addition to being an antichrist due your teaching that Jesus Christ did not fulfill the prophecy of Christ.

BELIEVERpriest
Hi, this is my first thread. I wasnt sure which topic I wanted to raise first, so as a dispensationalist, I thought it would be good to establish a basic Church Age priciple.

The Church was started on the day of Pentacost on the year 30 AD. That was the day that the Church recieved the Holy Spirit, and temporary spiritual gifts such as healing, tongues, visions and prophecy where distributed by God for the propagation of the Gospel. But, as stated, these gifts were only temporary, as the permanent ministry of the Holy Spirit is a much more effective tool than prophecy.

This is where I stopped reading. The Holy Spirit has not left and is still active in this world today. I find that it is incredibly sacrilegious to say what you have just said.

BELIEVERpriest

truejew
If God is no longer giving prophecy to the Church...

What were you doing prophesying a date for the return of Christ in the other thread?

Your uncanny ability to misinterperet text is not limited to the Word of God. Re-read my first post. I said prophecy stopped in 94 AD with the writting of Revelation, and prophecy will resume with the Rapture (aka removal) of the Church.

In between the two points, there is no prophecy, because the Church is an interruption of the transition from the 69th to the 70th week.

I know you misunderstand the 7th week, but that doesnt mean you have to take my words out of context.

There is no rapture and we are in the time period between the first half and second half of the 70th week. You will not find a 7 year period in Revelations. You will only find 3.5 years or 1/2 of the last week.

reply to post by truejew


I am not a prophet. The pre tribulation rapture was revealed long ago by Jesus Himself in the gospels, witnessed by John in Revelation 4 and the 5th seal, and Paul also goes into detail about it. So I am not giving any prophetic utterance.

What I do is analyze the cyclical historical trends of the Church Age in an attempt to produce hypothetical possibilities reguarding the date of the rapture. I am a speculative date-setter. So far, the next date is 9/16/2016 (feast of trumpets). If not 2016, then 2023, or 2128, or 2198 (this is as far as I have calculated).

I do not hold 9/16/2016 as an absolute. I just believe that if the Body of Christ is fully matured by that date (or the other dates presented), the rapture can or will happen.

I speculate based on trends like an economist. But between the completion of the Book of Revelation and the pre tribulation rapture is a total prophetic dead zone. During the Church age, the course of history is determined by the volitional responsibility of Christians, not prophecy. Prophecy is for Israel.

backcase

BELIEVERpriest
Hi, this is my first thread. I wasnt sure which topic I wanted to raise first, so as a dispensationalist, I thought it would be good to establish a basic Church Age priciple.

The Church was started on the day of Pentacost on the year 30 AD. That was the day that the Church recieved the Holy Spirit, and temporary spiritual gifts such as healing, tongues, visions and prophecy where distributed by God for the propagation of the Gospel. But, as stated, these gifts were only temporary, as the permanent ministry of the Holy Spirit is a much more effective tool than prophecy.

This is where I stopped reading. The Holy Spirit has not left and is still active in this world today. I find that it is incredibly sacrilegious to say what you have just said.

You misunderstood me. The Church PERMANENTLY recieved the Holy Spirit at Pentacost in 30 AD. However, the gifts of tongues, visions, prophecy, and healings have ceased upon the completion and distribution of the Book of Revelation.

The Holy Spirit is still indwelling all members of the Church today. To tap into that power, all you have to do is confess your known sins to the Father (1John1:9) and remain for a duration of time in fellowship rather than carnality.

Miracles and healings still happen at God's disgression and/or upon prayer, but there is no longer any man or woman designated as a prophet, tongue speaker/interpretor, or healer.

These gifts where only needed to spread the gospel. Now most of the world has been presented with the truth at one time or another, so there is no longer a need for these crutches.

reply to post by guitarplayer


Well, needless to say, I disagree with you, but when do you believe we entered this period, and when will it end?

Also, what biblical evidence can you present to support this?

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by truejew

 

I am not a prophet.

Correct. You have been revealed as a false prophet and an antichrist.

reply to post by truejew


Keep slingn the mud, but let me know when you have something intellegent to say.