Atheist/Agnostics: Please come and tell me what you think.

I was raised in the religion of guilt.

Roman Catholicism.

For almost 15 years I was filled with ideas that were:

Misogynist
Homophobic
Separatist & Elitist

There is no sect of organized religion in the world today that promotes anything remotely positive. The reason behind that, is they are too busy arguing amongst themselves about whose version of what happened is correct.

I'm an agnostic/atheist because I do not have the ego large enough to claim I know what god wants. That I know what transpired over 3000 years ago. That pieces of literature written decades apart, with no real way of truly verifying their authenticity are the truth, or a clever form of social manipulation by Romans. ( speaking of the new Testament)

I don't need to tell you what you believe, that's irrelevant. You believe in it because it is what you choose the believe. The only person who can put a dent in your faith is you.

Humans were not meant to understand creation, or a creator. To claim otherwise and then claim that your hypothesis is better than the next guy's, is intellectually dishonest.

~Tenth

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

Original sin is dogma created by the Catholic Church, the same church that carried out the Inquisitions and Crusades. The bible says that the child does not bear the iniquities (sins) of the parents, so original sin is totally unbiblical in every way.

Original sin only exists so they can have an excuse to push their faith/grace/salvation agenda. It keeps people complacent and in fear.

When I refer to Original sin-I refer to our Sin nature.

The bible says that the child does not bear the iniquities (sins) of the parents,

Thats precisely right.

Deuteronomy 24:16, “Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin.

The word sin originated from an old English archery term meaning “to miss the mark.” This is our mark
Matt. 5:48 “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Pastor Chuck Smith, the founder of Calvary Chapel, once said, “We aren’t sinners because we sin, we sin because we’re sinners.” It’s our nature

The Bible clearly shows there are not different of degrees of sin. All sin=death.
God understands that we all sin, but the punishment for all sin is the same therefore, he who breaks one point of the law, has broken the whole law. This is why we say that murder is the same as lying, the consequence doesn't change.

All of us sin, just because some stick out more to us doesn't mean that the consequences of you sin are not the same as that persons. We need a savior just as much as the serial killer on his deathbed, because we have to have "missed the mark." If you want to cast him into hell for missing the mark then you must cast yourself into hell for missing the mark.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

1 John 5
18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

1 John 3
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

The one who knows God does not go on sinning. If Christians claim to know God, why do they submit to sin and call themselves sinners?

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


What sin did a newborn baby, who dies of sudden crib death syndrome commit?

If all men die because of sin, and the "wages of sin is death", why do trees and insects and puppies die?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

1 John 5
18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

1 John 3
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

The one who knows God does not go on sinning. If Christians claim to know God, why do they submit to sin and call themselves sinners?

edit on 7-9-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Once you repent and are saved you have a a righteousness apart from the Law.

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[a] Jesus Christ to all who believe.

Once you have this righteousness God views you as a new creation, and no longer counts your sins against you because you have accepted his pardon, so in his eye once you are born again(born of God) you no longer sin.

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[a] The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


You didn't answer my question. John says that those born of God do not go on sinning. Do you sin? If so, does that mean you are not born of God, a.k.a. "born again"?

So you are in Jesus who became sin for you? Does that mean you are in sin?

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

In other words, "the Devil made me do it"! So, do all Christians anthropomorphize sin?

Once you repent and are saved you have a righteousness apart from the Law.

Do you think that following laws written by men, pretending to be God's mouthpiece, that have men stoning women who weren't virgins, not eating shell fish, cutting their beards certain ways and wearing non blended fabrics made men righteous?

Does God have laws? Maybe. Things like gravity, force, PI and the speed of light are obeying God's laws. Can Christians break these laws?

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[a] Jesus Christ to all who believe.

Once you have this righteousness God views you as a new creation, and no longer counts your sins against you because you have accepted his pardon, so in his eye once you are born again(born of God) you no longer sin.

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[a] The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Okay, so the real reason you wanted atheists and agnostics to post their views on Christianity was so that you could preach to them. Is that was this "new person in God" will be like, insufferable, in your face, street corner preachers?

Where is this "new creation"? Why haven't I see it in anyone? I have yet to meet a Christian who was so changed that it made me want to emulate them and seek "Christ" as my personal savior. On the contrary.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


Your statement only solidifies mine.

keywords "When one adheres"
problem= one can adhere to something different, does it make their view of right/wrong incorrect?
that is judgment of others views based on your criteria.

You cannot apply your preference to everyone in the room. That is like saying, "Cake is better than ice-cream" rather than saying, "I like cake better than ice-cream". One makes an incorrect objective claim that just because you like something everyone should. The other correctly states a subjective preference.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


oh dear - why are you so dishonestly cherry picking the treatment of Hebrew slaves and presenting that as the general position on slavery ?

reply to post by Murgatroid

The point Im making is how some folks think they can be bad their entire lives...and that God will be there to forgive them that last second...so they intend to be that way because God forgives.

I have an Atheist friend who always says "I don't WANT to go to heaven, I want instead to go to hell where all the cool people go!"

reply to post by mysterioustranger


point one - people believe that - because that's what the bible says

point two - I have grave doubts that anyone who talks about heaven really grasps the principle of eternity [ or more specifically the logistics of an eternal existence ]

reply to post by ignorant_ape

Agreed. Unfortunately, there will always be those people who are going forward with that behavior.

I was curious if most atheist misinterpreted our way of salvation, but what it appears that most don't understand original sin

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


So what exactly qualifies you to be the arbiter of how copies of copies of copies of 2000 year old ananoynously written factually erronious and contradictory manuscripts are to be interpreted ?

I personally have had possibly hundreds of conversations with xtians here on ATS alone, I also have quite a few friends who are of multiflavoured christianity and vertually all of them interpret the bibles in their own way, each claiming that theirs, or their pastors cherrypicked version is the truth.

Christianity is a cherry picked make it up as you go along multi denomination cult, the mere fact that there are so many versions of the bibles and so many different sects shows this to be true.

You my friend are no different to any other of the multitude of delusional posters who come to ATS to make the claim "I am the bearer of truth, because I know something others clearly don't or choose to ignore" . What is quite evident and no different to any other bringer of wisdom mouthing off on this site, is that you clearly fail to recognise your own arrogance and lack of humility.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...


In Genesis 4:17, Cain has a wife, though there is no account given of where his wife comes from. Excepting direct creation by God, as was the case for Adam himself, the only two obvious possibilities for Cain's wife are that she was either a full sister of Cain or she was Cain's mother Eve.
In Genesis 9:20-27, Ham saw his father Noah's nakedness. The Talmud suggests that Ham may have sodomized Noah (Babylonian Talmud Sanhedrin 70a). In more recent times, some scholars have suggested that Ham may have had intercourse with his father's wife.[20]
Abraham's brother Nahor married his niece Milcah, the daughter of his other brother Haran.[21]
In Genesis 19:30-38, living in an isolated area after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot's two daughters conspired to inebriate and seduce their father due to the lack of available partners. Because of intoxication, Lot "perceived not" when his firstborn, and the following night his younger daughter, lay with him. (Genesis 19:32-35) The two children born were directly Lot's sons and indirectly his grandsons, being his daughters' sons. Likewise, their sons were also their half-brothers, having the same father.
In one of the tales of a wife confused for a sister, Abraham admitted that his wife Sarah is also his half-sister, on his father's side.[2] However, in the rabbinic literature, Sarah is considered Abraham's niece (the daughter of his brother, Haran).[citation needed]
Abraham's son Isaac married Rebekah, his first cousin once removed, the granddaughter of his father's brother Nahor and niece Milcah.[22] Isaac and Rebekah's firstborn son Esau married his cousin Mahalah, daughter of his father's brother Ishmael,[23] while their second son Jacob married his cousins Leah and Rachel, daughters of his mother's brother Laban.[24] Marriage of cousins was not forbidden in biblical law.
In Genesis 35:22, Jacob's firstborn son Reuben committed incest by sleeping with his father's concubine Bilhah.
In Genesis 38, Judah, the fourth son of Jacob, mistook his daughter-in-law Tamar for a prostitute while she was veiled, and had sex with her.[25]
The biblical character Amram married his paternal aunt, Jochebed, the mother of Miriam, Aaron and Moses.[26]
In the book of 2nd Samuel, Amnon, King David's eldest son and heir to the throne, raped his half-sister Tamar; Tamar's brother, Absalom, learned of the incident and, two years later, ordered his servants to have Amnon killed.[27] It is noteworthy that when pleading in vain with Amnon, Tamar said, "Now therefore, I pray thee, speak unto the king; for he will not withhold me from thee".[28] This would imply that - in spite of the prohibition set out elsewhere in the Bible - the marriage of siblings (at least those of different mothers, as Amnon and Tamar were) could be acceptable in the society in which the story was written.[citation needed]

From wiki.
en.wikipedia.org...