Atheist/Agnostics: Please come and tell me what you think.

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb

Originally posted by GodIsRelative
I consider myself agnostic. In fact, because agnostic literally means "without knowledge," I consider everyone else agnostic, too, despite what they choose to believe.

To answer your question, I think most self-proclaimed Christians believe what has already been stated. That if you confess and believe in Christ as your savior, you will go to heaven. (baptism optional)

I have met a fair enough number who believe that what really matters is your actions. If you live a life of good works and avoidance of evil, then you will be judged righteous and allowed into heaven, regardless of your beliefs.

I personally would never believe in a God who would choose to save only those who believed in ancient myths that lack physical proof and evidence despite their good will and unselfish love. Moreover, I could never love a God like that. I have met many people in my life who adamantly believe that Jesus is the only way into heaven who I would consider too wicked to be allowed to teach Sunday school, much less enter into the holiest place in the universe. If those people go to heaven and the kindest and most unselfish people I know go to hell simply because one chooses to believe the myth and the other does not, I would be glad to go to hell just so I would not spend eternity with a God so unjust. I think that if this is what you believe, you should seriously re-evaluate your interpretation of scripture and perhaps seek another form of spiritual enlightenment.

B.B. Warfeild said, “It is not difficult to understand why a just God does not save sinners, but how a just God saves any sinners.”

I say that it is not difficult to understand why a loving God saves sinners, but why a loving God doesn't save all sinners.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

but show me where a God came and died to save the world?

Please show me how the death of a god can save the world, or anything for that matter? If a god has the power to save the world, he could do so with the merest of thoughts. Do you believe that the crucifixion of christ was like a witch creating a magical spell that forced god into forgiving sins?

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

but show me where a God came and died to save the world?

Please show me how the death of a god can save the world, or anything for that matter? If a god has the power to save the world, he could do so with the merest of thoughts. Do you believe that the crucifixion of christ was like a witch creating a magical spell that forced god into forgiving sins?

God has rules ladies and gents believe it our not. He is governed by his righteousness.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

my opinion is irrelevant-but if an alledged Christian doesn't quote john 3/16 , I have to wonder

There are so many verses to go to for saved by grace I quoted the one in which Jesus himself said it., because if a Christian argues with Jesus well, I dont think thats very Christian is it...

Originally posted by g0dhims3lf
So you want to know what a person that does not believe in heaven thinks your requirements to get there are?
You are also implying there is only one correct interpretation (yours).
There is no right or wrong, only varying levels of interpretation.
How litteral to take what parts and not others.
Ironically your statement is flawed as a belief technically cannot be right or wrong, at least not to the individual holding it, By definition they have already accepted it as truth. (Only the facts used to justify it can).

edit on 7-9-2013 by g0dhims3lf because: grammer

When one adheres to Biblical Christianity its pretty easy to tell right from wrong.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


using Only " bilblical Christianity " - tell us - is slavery right or wrong ?

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

using Only " bilblical Christianity " - tell us - is slavery right or wrong ?

Slavery is wrong in my opinion. Did slavery exist in the Bible? Yes. Does it take stand points on how they should be treated? Yes. Does it condemn certain forms of slavery? Yes. Does it ever actually condone it? No..

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

but show me where a God came and died to save the world?

Please show me how the death of a god can save the world, or anything for that matter? If a god has the power to save the world, he could do so with the merest of thoughts. Do you believe that the crucifixion of christ was like a witch creating a magical spell that forced god into forgiving sins?

God has rules ladies and gents believe it our not. He is governed by his righteousness.

How is that in reference to my statement?

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


the bible certainly does condone slavery - as there are multiple orders to enslave people for various reasons , further it never , ever condems it .

so - do we agree that " bilblical Christianity " does not teach that base concept of slavery is wrong

please don not simply repeat the canards on restrictive duration [ for some only ] or restrictions on enslaving jews

the bible manages to condem a vast array of practices - but never slavery

reply to post by Murgatroid

I agree. Its unfortunate some people will live their whole lives in sin and evil, and then expect God will save them in the very last second. 'Don't know about that....Im figuring one should be good their whole lives, not just at the end. If God judges us by our hearts, Im assuming we always need to behave.

My step-dad had a saying...."There are no Atheists in foxholes!!"-(meaning, when you are being bombed and shot-at, everyone, atheists included...scream "Lord help me!"

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


lets parse this down to a yes / no answer - using only "biblical Christianity " is slavery wrong ?

My questions to "Christians":

What makes you think that you deserve Heaven more than non-Christians?

If just believing in Jesus is enough get you a place in Heaven, why do you still need to worry about non-Christians, Antichrists, WW3?

Why do you still worry about other people opinions on your religion? Did you forget that they (non-Christians) will be doomed to hell for criticising you and Jesus? You should laugh at their "stupidity" instead

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


If you believe in space/ghost Jew you get to go to the bestest place ever when you die.

If you don't, he sends you to the worstest place ever, forever and ever

Or something similarly contrived

To believe in Christ is to believe in his teachings , to seek him in all living things, for he is of a living god. The will to live is the unseen and unobserved will of god imparted to all living things . And we are slaves to that will , however mankind has perverted that will and become slaves to their own intellect and hearts. God is perfection and Christ is the perfected man. Christ tried to teach the world the proper way to observe gods will, but mans twisted intellect and perverted hearts (opposition to gods will, and why and how is also explained by Christ ) put man above or even equal to god , and this is why man strays from proper thinking and proper observation of gods will for us. WE WERE MADE TO LIVE, but those who desire destruction of those things that give life rule today : everywhere . And the flesh is made an idol of sin and must be destroyed ,, we should slay with truth instead of a sword, because truth preserves life , so long as its wielded properly. The bible is not truth, it shows the truth of us. May all your journeys be fruitful

I would like to get a few responses from atheist/agnostics on what they believe Biblical Christianity says is required for salvation,

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


Nonbelievers have exactly the same source for the answer to this question as any xtian ie the Bibles, however whatever conclusions nonbelievers arrive at in this regard will often end up in exactly the same place as those of the multiflavoured xtians.

Of course there is another source a person may extract information from and that is direct "Revelation" your godman jesus may decide to whisper in the ear of an individual and tell him or her directly how to get to heaven, or he may decide to have another instruction manual written such as the book of mormon.



At the end of the day what on earth difference does it make to an xtian what the hell a nonbeliever thinks? as most nonbelievers consider xtians and such to be deluded, and as your godman instructs "childlike" mentally, in as much as they are instructed and accept to suspend their critical faculties and take things on faith from whatever or whomever source that bolsters their immediate belief.

So, I'm curious, why do you feel it neccassary to come on a conspiracy website to ask people who care not to indulge in your superstition, which parts of the superstition we think the superstitious actually believe.

Your asking us to read Harry Potters spell book and give our opinion on how we think the spells should be conducted in order to work because K Rowlings fans can't seem to agree on the formulas and not one of them has ever conjured anything.

Originally posted by bozzchem
reply to post by Klassified

 

Wrong yourself. The original sin was Lucifer's pride.

How can this be true when your god created evil to begin with ?

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

using Only " bilblical Christianity " - tell us - is slavery right or wrong ?

Best reply so far

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

the bible certainly does condone slavery - as there are multiple orders to enslave people for various reasons , further it never , ever condems it .

so - do we agree that " bilblical Christianity " does not teach that base concept of slavery is wrong

please don not simply repeat the canards on restrictive duration [ for some only ] or restrictions on enslaving jews

the bible manages to condem a vast array of practices - but never slavery

Slavery was a lot different in those times. People would sell themselves into slavery as a means of paying off debt.

“‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. 47 “‘If a foreigner residing among you becomes rich and any of your fellow Israelites become poor and sell themselves to the foreigner or to a member of the foreigner’s clan, 48 they retain the right of redemption after they have sold themselves. One of their relatives may redeem them: 49 An uncle or a cousin or any blood relative in their clan may redeem them. Or if they prosper, they may redeem themselves. 50 They and their buyer are to count the time from the year they sold themselves up to the Year of Jubilee. The price for their release is to be based on the rate paid to a hired worker for that number of years. 51 If many years remain, they must pay for their redemption a larger share of the price paid for them. 52 If only a few years remain until the Year of Jubilee, they are to compute that and pay for their redemption accordingly. 53 They are to be treated as workers hired from year to year; you must see to it that those to whom they owe service do not rule over them ruthlessly. 54 “‘Even if someone is not redeemed in any of these ways, they and their children are to be released in the Year of Jubilee, 55 for the Israelites belong to me as servants. They are my servants, whom I brought out of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.

Notice he says they are to be treated as workers hired from year to year.

both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing” which is what happened in Africa in the 19th century. Africans were rounded up by slave-hunters, who sold them to slave-traders, who brought them to the New World to work on plantations and farms. This practice is abhorrent to God. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16). Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers (1 Timothy 1:8-10).

Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there is no favoritism.

His point is a master who mistreats his slaves will have to answer to God. He’ll be punished while the slave will receive a reward. Paul was assuming that any one who mistreated someone else would have to be an unbeliever, for whom there is no forgiveness. In Colossians 4:1 he addressed believing masters, reminding them to do what is right and fair because they have a Master in heaven.

You had to choose slavery, or your parents had to choose it for you. It was not something that was meant to be forced upon someone. This reflects the way that it is our choice to accept Gods pardon, or not.

reply to post by ChristianJihad


You did not have to read this thread or reply? I posted it in the religion faith and theology section...if you aren't interested don't read, don't respond. I was curious if most atheist misinterpreted our way of salvation, but what it appears that most don't understand original sin.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


Original sin is dogma created by the Catholic Church, the same church that carried out the Inquisitions and Crusades. The bible says that the child does not bear the iniquities (sins) of the parents, so original sin is totally unbiblical in every way.

Original sin only exists so they can have an excuse to push their faith/grace/salvation agenda. It keeps people complacent and in fear.