Tobacco and the Health Fascists

Originally posted by poet1b

If you call for legalization of it all, then I hear ya, but if you call for leaving tobacco untouched while keeping hemp illegal, then that is just hypocrisy.

If one of the two is to be illegal, it should be tobacco.

And you know what - That is where I think 'they' are going. Tobacco is a problem for 'the control freaks' because it
often acts as a brain stimulant - once read about an experiment done on cats which showed tobacco actually
improved their abilities. Weed on the other hand often makes people more docile - easier to manipulate,
easier to 'dumb down'. In some dystopian future which may not be so far from where we are now, tobacco
may be illegal and cannabis legal - in fact they may require you to use it everyday [all the better to control
the masses]. And you think tobacco addiction is bad? - wait for the world controlled by drug dealers and then
you'll see bad - but it won't matter you'll be too stoned to know the difference.

Originally posted by theMediator

Originally posted by amkia
I don’t consume alcoholic beverages and a person who does make me puke… shall fill some files against alcohols and their users..?

Smoking has bad or good effects only on ME; if this is an issue then let it be my choice.

Playing the devil's advocate here but...
Alcool bottles are recyclable but your cigarettes are not.

So no, it doesn't affect only you, the cigarettes and the smoke doesn't just dissapear "poof".
If you we're the only smoker in the world, it wouldn't be a big deal obviously but the billions of burnt cigarettes do in fact have an impact.

I said I roll my own tobacco so it goes back to the nature in matter of days when I tossing it. Now get back to your (philosophy), do you know what sort of unnatural and harmful chemicals (which is not observed by your body) will be added to our drinking water when you piss out after your drinking day/night..?

Mine is at least natural tobacco leaves got back to the soil.

reply to post by amkia



Ever heard of the Great Pacific garbage patch??

en.wikipedia.org...

Tell me the same about the cigarette smoker (garbage patch)…!

Originally posted by theMediator

Originally posted by amkia
My smoking habit support the human race in need (by buying and using it) what non-smoker does to support their needs..?

It’s all political ploy and BS like I said it above.

Are you for real?

This has to be the worst BS I have ever read.

The political ploy is that they keep going on and making this poison for profits.
R i d i c u l o u s .

Of course I am real….

Millions of people working in this industry worldwide, their (low income) helping their family expenses to just (meet the end).. long hours of working… day and night.

Now, you must be some ignorant bad arse living in rich country and never work for less than $50 an hour, these poor people working in this industry for a lousy $5 pay checks to feed their family, closing this makes them unemployed… result will be immigration (which you hate) to your country.

Then I hear you and alike screaming about illegal immigrations…… am I right..?

Like I said…. BE REAL…

I don't know how people can justify shelling out the outrageous prices being charged for tobacco products now with the huge taxes applied to help cover the social cost of medical care for victims of smoking related diseases which are self inflicted injuries.

So you're saying those taxes on our cigs go into a special fund just for us? or are they also used for the obese people that cant stay away from their donuts?
I'm sure smoking isnt good for me. But I smoke. I work a job where I am very active 8-10-12 up to 16 hours a day.Personally I think that negates some of the harmful affects as opposed to just sitting on the couch day in day out.

Whats funny to me is how smokers have become so "stigmatized" (is that the word?) yet if we all quit in one day the states would lose billions of dollars of our much needed tax money.
I'm pretty sure they would freak and start saying "hey we didnt mean it" and "you go right ahead and smoke anywhere"

Originally posted by tinner07


I don't know how people can justify shelling out the outrageous prices being charged for tobacco products now with the huge taxes applied to help cover the social cost of medical care for victims of smoking related diseases which are self inflicted injuries.

So you're saying those taxes on our cigs go into a special fund just for us? or are they also used for the obese people that cant stay away from their donuts?
I'm sure smoking isnt good for me. But I smoke. I work a job where I am very active 8-10-12 up to 16 hours a day.Personally I think that negates some of the harmful affects as opposed to just sitting on the couch day in day out.

Whats funny to me is how smokers have become so "stigmatized" (is that the word?) yet if we all quit in one day the states would lose billions of dollars of our much needed tax money.
I'm pretty sure they would freak and start saying "hey we didnt mean it" and "you go right ahead and smoke anywhere"

Smoking too much isn't good for you , much the same as overdoing anything, where is the moderation? The anti smoking lobby is a joke based on poor science. Its divided a nation, and created anti smoking zealots as bad as any racism, how can this be a good thing?. The real facts just don't add up, but a lot of what we are doing now doesn't make sense. It just makes someone money. But people have been smoking some sort of substance since fire was invented, and will continue.


uote]

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
As a mortician, I will tell you smoking will kill you. And it will not be pleasant and in your sleep.. But it is a free world so I have personally no issue with how you die.

But....

I do object strongly to anyone lighting up around me without asking. It is just plain rude..And I hate the fact smokers think it is cool to litter with their butts.

This kind of self entitlement is disgusting.

Think about this, ...If a majority of smokers did not act like the above. No laws would be needed and anti-smokers would have little ammo .


Note: What I find funny is. If you ask a smoker if they are one of the above. They all say no. So the only logical conclusion is ...

(a) We have a bunch of time / space traveling serial smokers, who change appearance at random.

(b) 99% of smokers are dishonest.

You want honesty let me ask you what you do so whole heartily that is so perfect and does not harm your body give me just ONE THING ??????????????????/ Otherwise you are living in your own little bubble! PPL die everyday-every way-their choice-just wait until you are die hummm what will they find? Probably diet coke my guess.
Next you will be speaking about seat-belt laws wtf-get you and the government off my ass!!

Ps. Pharmaceuticals kill more than anything BTW I bet you take those too!
Dont judge- less you judge yourself first

Trinity

reply to post by trinityalways

Ps. Pharmaceuticals kill more than anything BTW I bet you take those too! Dont judge- less you judge yourself first Trinity

Good point! Those same pharmaceutical companies now hyping Chantix so you can stop smoking. Here from the
manufacturers web page is a warning about their amanzing wonder drug to help you stop smoking:

Important Safety Information Some people have had changes in behavior, hostility, agitation, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions while using CHANTIX to help them quit smoking. Some people had these symptoms when they began taking CHANTIX, and others developed them after several weeks of treatment or after stopping CHANTIX. If you, your family, or caregiver notice agitation, hostility, depression, or changes in behavior, thinking, or mood that are not typical for you, or you develop suicidal thoughts or actions, anxiety, panic, aggression, anger, mania, abnormal sensations, hallucinations, paranoia, or confusion, stop taking CHANTIX and call your doctor right away. Also tell your doctor about any history of depression or other mental health problems before taking CHANTIX, as these symptoms may worsen while taking CHANTIX. Do not take CHANTIX if you have had a serious allergic or skin reaction to CHANTIX. Some people can have serious skin reactions while taking CHANTIX, some of which can become life-threatening. These can include rash, swelling, redness, and peeling of the skin. Some people can have allergic reactions to CHANTIX, some of which can be life-threatening and include: swelling of the face, mouth, and throat that can cause trouble breathing. If you have these symptoms or have a rash with peeling skin or blisters in your mouth, stop taking CHANTIX and get medical attention right away.

If smoking is not risky enough for you, you can try quitting with Chantix !!! Why let tobacco smoking damage
your health when the pharmaceutical industry will give you a new way of doing it. Wake up and see the
new age of the modern drug pushers.

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
As a mortician, I will tell you smoking will kill you. And it will not be pleasant and in your sleep.. But it is a free world so I have personally no issue with how you die.

But....

I do object strongly to anyone lighting up around me without asking. It is just plain rude..And I hate the fact smokers think it is cool to litter with their butts.

This kind of self entitlement is disgusting.

Think about this, ...If a majority of smokers did not act like the above. No laws would be needed and anti-smokers would have little ammo .


Note: What I find funny is. If you ask a smoker if they are one of the above. They all say no. So the only logical conclusion is ...

(a) We have a bunch of time / space traveling serial smokers, who change appearance at random.

(b) 99% of smokers are dishonest.

So,a mortician is now a doctor? You can tell how people died now? You're full of it.

As for smokers lighting up around you? Who the hell are you to say where people can smoke? I'll light up anywhere I damn near please,thanks. Unless I'm a guest in your house you've got no say in where I smoke,pal.

Get off your high horse.

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks


I do not need to lie or be delusional to get my point across.

 

This is what I find amusing...

First day in school. They tell you....

" in case of a fire, get on the ground and get out. The smoke will kill you before the fire"\

This is standard issue advice for all 5 year old's and up.

Most 5 year olds get it. Most.... for some it is too complicated a concept.


Smokers... Some of you are anti-social a-holes. This is the reason people are giving you a hard time. Not because you are going to die early. Or second hand smoke will effect us. It is your attitude that sucks, not just your self entitled face.

Remember, you only started to look cool. It did not work. You are still a try hard.

Really dude? You're the one coming across as an a-hole this thread.

People don't give me a hard time. you don't like that I smoke? Too bad. Move away from me. I've had many encounters over the years. I'm not afraid to tell you non smokers to go # yourself.

I will however respect a non-smokers personal property.I have many friends who don't smoke,if I'm in their car or house,etc,I will NOT smoke without asking first.

Ah,sounds like a heated debate going on in this thread,good stuff

Excuse me a minute....

....while I roll a fag (UK slang for cigarette before anyone gets the wrong idea.lol)

Yeah,it aint a great habit.Can't say it's not without it's health issues n if I could go back in time I kick my 15 y/o self squarely up the arse for thinking it was cool to start,not that he'd pay the slightest attention to me

Oh,by the way I drive a truck and love cars,I own two n rebuilding another.A proper serial polluter,responsible for a degree of the world's poor air quality,sorry folks !!!

But then I do pay a lot in tobacco/fuel duty and in 40 years have cost the NHS about 50 quid or however much it cost them to take out my tonsils in 1979.

I don't smoke in other faces,their property without asking.Am pretty respectful that way.

I don't flaunt it or play the martyr,demand special rights because I smoke.In the same way I wouldn't expect a over eater or drinker to demand special treatment from me.

If we're weighing up over costs on society though then alcohol costs many.many more times the money and does more damage than smoking does.

When do you see gangs of men fighting and brawling thru the town centres every weekend after smoking a few cigarettes

reply to post by fastbob72

If we're weighing up over costs on society though then alcohol costs many.many more times the money and does more damage than smoking does.

BUT the latest evidence on alcohol is lite to moderate drinkers are healthier and live longer than non-drinkers!
Notice I said lite to moderate not heavy drinkers.

Another odd statistic about tobacco; When the Surgeon General;s report on smoking came out in the 1960s in
the US it found that lifetime pipe smokers actually statistically lived longer than non-smokers! On the other hand
2.5 packs a day or more cigarette smokers had 20 times the rate of lung cancer!

If they weren't so gung-ho on demonizing tobacco they also might find that light to moderate smoking might
have some health benefits that might justify the risk and in fact a doctor who swears he has taken no money
from the tobacco industry and who has achieved some fame as a doctor wrote a book titled:
THE HEALTH BENEFITS OF TOBACCO by William Douglass, MD. An interesting book showing various
studies that have actually showed tobacco can have a positive health effect - Of course you will rarely hear about
that book from the anti-smoking cartel as it opposes their agenda. You can probably find this book on Amazon,
ebay, or other online sellers and I believe the author also has it for sale.

I'm old enough to remember walking into the staff room at school and there being a blue/brown haze across the whole room as stressed teachers had a 10 minute respite from obnoxious youngsters. My brother remembers teachers smoking in class. Here in Oz a packet of ciggies up the sleeve of a t-shirt was for many an initiation to the ways of adults.

I stupidly started smoking at University, and now it is 4 years since a cigarette has passed my lips. I welcome the increasingly critical attitude society has towards the toxic gaseous emissions from this product. There are many stupid things I've done in my life, but the only thing I truly regret is taking up smoking. It did so little for me other than perhaps mildy alleviate stress, and not nearly as much as I thought it did, in retrospect. I never thought I'd see the day smoking was banned in pubs, but that too has come to pass.

While I will defend people's right as consenting adults to 'self harm', I do not condone the (unintended perhaps but still real) harming of others via the many different ways this product poisons our environment. I do not have an issue with certain areas being reserved for smokers (in much the same way safe injecting clinics are recommended, as a way of harm reduction for heroin addicts, to contain and treat the problem as a health issue rather than a criminal one) but in a society where there is so much wrong, the increasing negativity with which tobacco products (and the truly nefarious activities of the companies which promote them) are being seen is a truly positive thing.

reply to post by AlienView


Well, health fascists or not, they're right about the damage Tobacco has done and continues to be done to people's health.

It's not the Nicotine that damages the user, it's the adulterants added to the tobacco leaf upon processing it into a smokable (or chewable) product.

Around 4000 additives are in Tobacco, that frankly have no business being added.

Dozens of those additives are HIGHLY carcinogenic chemicals, and a large percentage of the rest are fairly toxic in their own right too.

They are added to 'improve flavour' apparently by making a unique flavour for brand loyalty purposes and 'combustibility' and to preserve the products.

I'd personally rather they forgot about unique flavours or branding in favour of doing all that could be done to improve their customers chances of avoiding developing terminal cancers from using their products...but that's me.

Yes, Tobacco or rather processed tobacco is very damaging to health but the bottom line for me is users have the option of choice.

Smoking Tobacco is an Adult thing...and adults being adults are able to learn about and appreciate the risks of using this particular drug..if they then decide to continue using Tobacco, that is THEIR CHOICE as it rightly ought to be.

I gave up smoking, after a lifelong tobacco habit, almost 3 years ago, and i now use my Ecig devices exclusively with more satisfaction and pleasure than smoking Tobacco ever gave me in over 30 years use.

BUT...i'm a BIG advocate of Adult choice. If the facts - minus the propaganda, is given to Adults then it's that persons absolute right (IMHO) to partake in anything they choose to use, whether we're talking about the drug we call Tobacco or any other.

After all...if Adults are considered responsible enough to make an informed and sound determination at the ballot box to elect those who decide the legislation to prevent Adults making informed choices about their own bodies and what goes into them, then surely those same adults are responsible enough to make their own informed and sound determinations about what they themselves choose to use.

Personal Adult choice is where it's at for me, this means free and informed choices on everything, not just Tobacco. If the data says something is going to be bad for you and you take that knowledge and use the stuff anyway, then that is up to you, and i firmly believe nobody else has the moral right or even legal right to either prevent or punish you from doing so with one caveat...nobody else is harmed by your choices.

reply to post by fastbob72

If we're weighing up over costs on society though then alcohol costs many.many more times the money and does more damage than smoking does.

Let's weigh the costs and damages of anti depressants against the costs and damage of smoking. Its really no wonder, though, that so many people are depressed in this prison society where even your next door neighbor has the keys to the cells.

I believe that growing organic food, fruit, and tobacco is a good thing. Most of the cancers and health problems occur because of the radiation in the fertilizer, however, there was also some talk of the atmospheric tests and nuclear tests down that may have fallen out in fertile ground. I'm sure they cross all their T's and dot all their I's when they plan things, so they serve multi purposes.

I am not saying tobacco is good from the point of view of your blood pressure, vascular system and heart, but that it wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as what is occurring now, especially in North America, versus say Japan's rates. And also, tylenol is a killer too.

So....not promoting it. Myself I'm trying esmokes. But I did think of possibly growing my own organic tobacco as well, for both methods. But will see how lowering the amount goes over time too.

Forcing anything, claiming ownership of the resources of this planet like nazi's should never be allowed to drip drip drip into a system. We are equally co-owners of the resources of this planet.

As someone who used to run a respiratory clinic for children several years ago I can tell you first-hand that the incidence of children with asthma from a home with smokers in was a hell of a lot higher than asthmatics from a non-smoker's home. Also the incidence of asthma attacks was far higher for those from smokers' homes.
I used to ask the parents of every new admission to the clinic whether they smoked or not and anecdotally there were around 3 or 4 times as many who smoked.
This has been verified by several independent studies too so it's not just my experience.

I personally convinced many parents to change or stop their smoking habits if not for their own health but for the health of their children.

I have no problem with smokers as long as they respect my right and my children's right to breath air free from tobacco smoke.
There are enough pollutants in the atmosphere already without adding to them.

Originally posted by cuckooold
I'm old enough to remember walking into the staff room at school and there being a blue/brown haze across the whole room as stressed teachers had a 10 minute respite from obnoxious youngsters. My brother remembers teachers smoking in class. Here in Oz a packet of ciggies up the sleeve of a t-shirt was for many an initiation to the ways of adults.

I stupidly started smoking at University, and now it is 4 years since a cigarette has passed my lips. I welcome the increasingly critical attitude society has towards the toxic gaseous emissions from this product. There are many stupid things I've done in my life, but the only thing I truly regret is taking up smoking. It did so little for me other than perhaps mildy alleviate stress, and not nearly as much as I thought it did, in retrospect. I never thought I'd see the day smoking was banned in pubs, but that too has come to pass.

While I will defend people's right as consenting adults to 'self harm', I do not condone the (unintended perhaps but still real) harming of others via the many different ways this product poisons our environment. I do not have an issue with certain areas being reserved for smokers (in much the same way safe injecting clinics are recommended, as a way of harm reduction for heroin addicts, to contain and treat the problem as a health issue rather than a criminal one) but in a society where there is so much wrong, the increasing negativity with which tobacco products (and the truly nefarious activities of the companies which promote them) are being seen is a truly positive thing.

edit on 13-8-2013 by cuckooold because: (no reason given)

Just as a footnote, can you tell us honestly,? if your weight has gone up or any medication you might be on since giving up tobacco.
I to remember teachers having a smoke during lessons, some were guys that had gone through two world wars, and were very traumatised, I certainly don't begrudge them a smoke to keep there nerves in check.

Originally posted by Unity_99
I believe that growing organic food, fruit, and tobacco is a good thing. Most of the cancers and health problems occur because of the radiation in the fertilizer, however, there was also some talk of the atmospheric tests and nuclear tests down that may have fallen out in fertile ground. I'm sure they cross all their T's and dot all their I's when they plan things, so they serve multi purposes.

I am not saying tobacco is good from the point of view of your blood pressure, vascular system and heart, but that it wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as what is occurring now, especially in North America, versus say Japan's rates. And also, tylenol is a killer too.

So....not promoting it. Myself I'm trying esmokes. But I did think of possibly growing my own organic tobacco as well, for both methods. But will see how lowering the amount goes over time too.

Forcing anything, claiming ownership of the resources of this planet like nazi's should never be allowed to drip drip drip into a system. We are equally co-owners of the resources of this planet.

I agree with you as regards to organic tobacco, the tailor made ciggys. actually have rice in them as a filler. The Tobacco is turned to a mush and then sprayed with nicotine and many more chemicals. Its the only way the rolling machines can roll them. Rice is a known carcinogen when burnt. The Tobacco manufacturers are not clean either. I think all the Big corporations are a big worry to the state of this planet.

Originally posted by anonentity

Originally posted by cuckooold
I'm old enough to remember walking into the staff room at school and there being a blue/brown haze across the whole room as stressed teachers had a 10 minute respite from obnoxious youngsters. My brother remembers teachers smoking in class. Here in Oz a packet of ciggies up the sleeve of a t-shirt was for many an initiation to the ways of adults.

I stupidly started smoking at University, and now it is 4 years since a cigarette has passed my lips. I welcome the increasingly critical attitude society has towards the toxic gaseous emissions from this product. There are many stupid things I've done in my life, but the only thing I truly regret is taking up smoking. It did so little for me other than perhaps mildy alleviate stress, and not nearly as much as I thought it did, in retrospect. I never thought I'd see the day smoking was banned in pubs, but that too has come to pass.

While I will defend people's right as consenting adults to 'self harm', I do not condone the (unintended perhaps but still real) harming of others via the many different ways this product poisons our environment. I do not have an issue with certain areas being reserved for smokers (in much the same way safe injecting clinics are recommended, as a way of harm reduction for heroin addicts, to contain and treat the problem as a health issue rather than a criminal one) but in a society where there is so much wrong, the increasing negativity with which tobacco products (and the truly nefarious activities of the companies which promote them) are being seen is a truly positive thing.

edit on 13-8-2013 by cuckooold because: (no reason given)

Just as a footnote, can you tell us honestly,? if your weight has gone up or any medication you might be on since giving up tobacco.
I to remember teachers having a smoke during lessons, some were guys that had gone through two world wars, and were very traumatised, I certainly don't begrudge them a smoke to keep there nerves in check.

edit on 13-8-2013 by anonentity because: (no reason given)

I'm on no medication since giving up tobacco (other than the nicotine patches I used initially to help stop), and my weight went down briefly when I had pneumonia (about a year after quitting), but now is about what is has always been. I'm fairly active, do not own a car at the moment, and cycle or take public transport most places.

I don't begrudge people the right to smoke, but I feel it should be done in a designated area which does not harm others.