A Near Death Experience - Purgatory

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Sometimes things are real no matter if we believe in them or not.

And sometimes things aren't real whether we believe them or not. One thread that winds through all NDEs is that people see what they believe. If you believe in Jesus, why there he is waiting for you! If you have a lifelong fear of Hell, there's that lake of fire! Whatever is out there is shaped by your own expectations.

reply to post by schuyler

That's not true at all, not according to this guy's account.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Here's another very interesting account

Ian McCormack was night diving off the island of Mauritius when he was stung multiple times by Box Jellyfish, which are among the most venomous creatures in the world. His testimony relates how he clung to life while getting to hospital, was declared clinically dead soon afterwards, and how during this time he had an encounter with Jesus, which radically changed the direction of his life. Link

Originally posted by adjensen
We don't burn witches anymore, thankfully, but not because the church has decided that witchcraft is okay.

The only reason for that is because science replaced the supernatural belief that evil spirits were the cause of all their ills. The execution of witches does still exist in uneducated parts of the world.

The problem with all religions is interpretation. As soon as people are involved you have ego's, domination, control, politics. There is no evidence that Jesus ever even existed, the idea is one of the most powerful ideas ever put on mankind often at the end of a sword(hence the inquisition and the holy wars). And that is the reason it has been perpetuated for the last 2000 years. There are good morals in the bible, but just make sure you put your money in the coffers after the sermon. The biggest tell of what the catholic church is all about is the fact they hoard vast wealth that could solve global hunger by itself, yet they revel in gold encrusted buildings and pomp and circumstance while asking you to give them your money.
All I can see is the greatest confidence trick played on mankind, the emperor isnt wearing any clothes, so why is everyone saying he is?

reply to post by OneManArmy

If you read Jesus you would know his "voice", and you would have understanding.

Right now all you have is an opinion, which may be rooted in ignorance and a lack of understanding and knowledge. You think you know, but the real knowledge is in your blind spot of an unknown unknown, or what you don't even know you don't know, yet.

To find it and discover it for yourself would require an open mind however free from contempt prior to investigation.

The OP's testimony about "Purgatory" if one commits suicide is indeed true. Whatever you see after death is a reflection of your state of mind while you were alive and right before death. I have taught many times in this very forum that your consciousness or mind will create your reality, either still in the physical body or after. When your mind is in deep denial, hatred, loss, or just unbalanced, you will see a world of darkness. So Purgatory is both a place and a state of mind. What I mean is that Purgatory doesn't exist unless your mind is in the state where you are in darkness. The same applies to other places that people see after death, either it be Hell, Outer Darkness, or other levels of an unbalanced mind.

That's why during life, you must focus on the light, thereby raising your mind or consciousness. Never put yourself down, never attach yourself to your relationships, jobs, money, and lifestyle so much that it may lead to suicide. Suicide is an act of giving up on life. Everybody knows that. You chose death over life. Remember that this life is a huge lesson, a school of life. Learn your lessons and move on. We all make mistakes in the Physical World. If we learn from our mistakes, then we grow--grow into the higher consciousness, which is the Kingdom of Heaven, which is within you. If you don't learn from your mistakes and hate yourself, this will lead to an unbalanced mind. Purgatory is a place in the Emotional Plane--right next to the Physical Plane. Lustful, dark spirits lurk there. This is where your "ghosts, demons, and devils" dwell. Yes, a lot of people end up there. You will be lost for a while, but eventually you must reincarnate again back to Earth or whatever planet that will be chosen. But don't be down, walk the path of life, and hold on to it with all your might. We are all One with love and peace.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

If you read Jesus you would know his "voice", and you would have understanding.

Right now all you have is an opinion, which may be rooted in ignorance and a lack of understanding and knowledge. You think you know, but the real knowledge is in your blind spot of an unknown unknown, or what you don't even know you don't know, yet.

To find it and discover it for yourself would require an open mind however free from contempt prior to investigation.

I was brought up a christian, I have read the bible, Old and New testaments and the apocrypha, my opinion is based on studying and understanding and basic common sense.
Real ignorance is thinking you have all the answers, and then trying to push that ignorance onto others.
The wisest man is the man that realises how little he actually knows.
The man who has most understanding of pain and suffering of others is someone that knows pain and suffering through personal experience.
"Judge not lest thee be judged" maybe you should be following those words, I mean it is YOUR religion.

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

If you read Jesus you would know his "voice", and you would have understanding.

Right now all you have is an opinion, which may be rooted in ignorance and a lack of understanding and knowledge. You think you know, but the real knowledge is in your blind spot of an unknown unknown, or what you don't even know you don't know, yet.

To find it and discover it for yourself would require an open mind however free from contempt prior to investigation.

I was brought up a christian, I have read the bible, Old and New testaments and the apocrypha, my opinion is based on studying and understanding and basic common sense.
Real ignorance is thinking you have all the answers, and then trying to push that ignorance onto others.
The wisest man is the man that realises how little he actually knows.
The man who has most understanding of pain and suffering of others is someone that knows pain and suffering through personal experience.
"Judge not lest thee be judged" maybe you should be following those words, I mean it is YOUR religion.

- forgive me OMA i adress your post -
it hurted me to read your testimony
....they taught you Wrong then
"common sense"..?
how could that, ever, stand against the approaching Holyness
making your soul nervous already when she feels it approaching
defying all your high-held 'logic' and ' reasoning'
...because it is like Nothing, you ever were able to imagine

dont Murder yourself
by applying ' your logic'
- it is a Trap

kind regards,

Originally posted by Lone12


- forgive me OMA i adress your post -
it hurted me to read your testimony
....they taught you Wrong then
"common sense"..?
how could that, ever, stand against the approaching Holyness
making your soul nervous already when she feels it approaching
defying all your high-held 'logic' and ' reasoning'
...because it is like Nothing, you ever were able to imagine

dont Murder yourself
by applying ' your logic'
- it is a Trap

kind regards,

Dont limit your spiritual growth and understanding by following a single doctrine, even your own teacher(as written) travelled and picked up enlightenment from India and wherever he supposedly travelled.
Dont keep your mind closed due to a fear of purgatory, as long as you live with morals and try to be good to others you need not fear any purgatory. The only way you can change the lives of others is to help those less fortunate than yourself and not ram religion down their throat. Salvation isnt in the conversion of others, its in the way you carry yourself and what positivity you can give to society, whatever the religion of that society.
Lead by example, not by ideaology, actions speak louder than words..."judge them by their deeds, not by their words"

reply to post by OneManArmy

The character and the heart and soul of a person speak very clearly and loudly through their words, which are like a fount of action.

To have studied Jesus and then to hold him in contempt, well, it's incongruent.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

The character and the heart and soul of a person speak very clearly and loudly through their words, which are like a fount of action.

To have studied Jesus and then to hold him in contempt, well, it's incongruent.

No one that reads the new testament is reading the words of Jesus, nor are they reading the words of god.
They are reading the words of men, none of which were Jesus, they were followers of an ideology apparently spoken by jesus, and they only started writing those words at least 30 years after his death. Have you ever heard of chinese whispers?
There is much morality in the new testament and good personal guidance, you dont need to believe in the man jesus to feel whats right and whats wrong. God is within, not without. As soon as you take someone elses interpretation of those words as gospel, then you are surrendering your own free will to that of someone else and their own agenda. Open your eyes, truth resonates with those who have the eyes and the heart to see and feel it.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by adjensen

The church is reflective of God, God is not reflective of the church.

The church is reflective of society.

Which explains perfectly why the Roman Catholic church is so well in alignment with secular society, right?

The teachings of Christ, while unpopular today, are still reflected in the teachings of the church.

yeah, the roman imperial church represents everything the total opposite of what the bible teaches--and l'm speaking as a person affiliated with no religious group, just seeing the plain facts. i believe jesus was very serious when he advised to NEVER, EVER exalt mortal humans with titles like 'father', or, Him forbid, 'holy father'?!--which in the bible only refers to the supreme. believe or die after horrible torture, which has always been the practice of this church, should also easily tell who it belongs to--for the purpose of organization of the peasants and their control. there is no separate priestly class in bible, that's 100% roman pagan like everything else in that statue and saint worshipping murder machine. are you really still that brainwashed by your nuns and catechism mind control?

reply to post by OneManArmy

You missed or glossed over the heart of his teaching, which is still there even if only a fraction of the gospel sayings attributed to Jesus are actual recording, which in those days occurred by memorization and were passed on as oral traditions, before written down 30 years later (not a long time for such a tradition).

You missed the man, his genius and the genius of his Magnum Opus, and now advocate non-trust and disbelief and skepticism in him, but in him, in spirit and truth IS the very heart of God.

I used to sound almost just like you, but then I looked again and made another inquiry with an open mind free of any sort of rebellious contempt.

And in the process I discovered that He is not only genius, but very funny and full of mirth and humor, and unending boundless love.

You don't know him, and he can be known not as faith externalized, but as the knowledge of experience, but it takes time and faith first comes by hearing (reading).

Sometimes it takes another read for it to sink in and have the desired impact, that's what happened for me.

reply to post by OneManArmy


reply to post by NewAgeMan



What does any of this have to do with NDE's and purgatory?

Ya'll should take the Jesus argument into another thread IMO.

Originally posted by Darkblade71
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

What does any of this have to do with NDE's and purgatory?

Ya'll should take the Jesus argument into another thread IMO.

yes point taken, i will stfu. I got carried away by peoples blind faith.

Originally posted by Darkblade71

My personal thought is that time runs in a circle.
But that is just a crazy thought.

I wouldnt call that a crazy idea. You only have to look at the solar system and its circular form, or the circular nature of the galaxy and in atoms. The rotation of the earth, the seasons. I think its pretty rational assumption to think time may be circular. Even the mayans came to that conclusion.
Let me add to that craziness and say I think we have had cycles of mankind, I dont know how many times, but i feel that we have civilized and destroyed ourselves many times over in the past. There is some pretty weird OOPART's that would suggest civilized man has been around a lot longer than suggested by the scientists.
Even the whole basis of birth, life, death and reincarnation is cyclical in nature.

reply to post by OneManArmy


Happens to all of us

i wonder if Jesus had to go through a period of reflection?

Although it seems his whole life was pretty much spent in deep thought, so I bet he got to skip it...

reply to post by Darkblade71

If you read her story or watched the video, it would become apparent that Jesus gets people out of hell/purgatory and that Jesus is God, so it's relevant.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


That is if you view Jesus as God.

So it is not irrelevant really.
To someone who doesn't, but does understand that Jesus did live, it is a worth while thought to ponder.

Not all NDE's are filled with Jesus pulling someone out.
Some have other things, other people, other experiences.

So which ones are correct?

What a person believes deep down in their subconscious is what they seem to experience to some extent.
After hearing, reading and talking with many people who have had NDE's, I have noticed this.

Some people have loved ones there, some have Jesus, some have hell, some have a void of darkness, some have tunnels that lead to strange lands, some have nothing but coldness and no recollection at all.

It is not all Jesus.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by schuyler

 

That's not true at all, not according to this guy's account.

It is true, and this guy's account does not prove otherwise. Whether you profess belief or not, you are aware of the stories because that's how you grew up. It's ingrained in you just as much as your language is. You'll never speak Chinese well because the synapses in your brain that would have allowed you to do so are burned out and gone. You will always be able to speak English because your brain grew around the language you heard, even in infancy.

It's the same with theology. You know the Biblical stories intimately. You may profess to not believe them, but you still know them emotionally, and when the time comes, you're more likely to see expressions of these emotions in an NDE than anything else--because you have no other beliefs to fall back upon. If an atheist suddenly finds himself alive on the other side, what's he going to do? Everything he says he's ever believed in, a mechanistic rationalistic universe, is now completely wrong. He's completely at sea with no support whatsoever.

In that sense a believer is equipped better. he doesn't have to freak out.

reply to post by FlyersFan


It seems that one's expectations can be mirrored in one's surroundings in the non breathing state. Thus all dogma seems validated and all half-baked expectations are, too, as well as self recriminations and fears, etc.

My own experience with the shade of a suicide points to this and is a swell reason not to off one's self prematurely... I mean it provides no escape from consciousness, just hurts survivors and results in possibly wallowing in one's despair in the same place one offed themselves until someone saves them or they come to a realization that they can evolve and "move on."

That is why I think it's worthwhile for folks to try to speak to the ghosties in haunted spaces and to try to explain this to them, or at least tell them to think good thoughts and call on help.

This sounds quite new-agey and mentally impaired to many people, but I've had some success with this method of talking to "empty" rooms in disturbed places.

Could be far off the mark and a waste of time and dignity, but if there's even a chance of helping a poor soul, then well, well worth it.