When is killing a newborn acceptable?

-points to the philosophy forum-
Meant to ponder and consider this, so try not to gut react to the topic alone but actually consider this:


Lets say in 100 years, there is a way to 100% predict if a newborn will murder someone in their life. Do you execute the infant right then and there? imprison for life, or simply let it go about life with absolute certainty that people will die (unknown, might be one, might be millions, but they will maliciously kill, that is the only certainty. Maybe when they are 10 years old, maybe 100..who knows.)


Thoughts?

...and try not to get too bogged down in "The Minority Report" side discussion..although that is similar in concept, this academic consideration is about a infant, not full grown people a hour before they do whatever it is they are going to do.
Also, I know the concept is impossible technically speaking, well, as far as we know...but just roll with it anyhow.

Pondered it for ....oh, I don't know. Maybe one second. NEVER.

I'd have to go with Queenofswords on this one, and say NEVER.

The thought of it makes me ill.

reply to post by queenofswords


I completely agree with you, but for argument's sake suppose that you go back in time and are presented with an opportunity to kill baby Hitler, would you take it or let the infant be? Assume that you know for certain he will carry out the same terrifying deeds of our world from the 1930s and 40s.

Or another way of asking the question is: If you were the doctor delivering the baby Adolf Hitler ( take your pick of evil humans: Dahmer, Gacy, Stalin, ect), would you let him live or kill the baby right then and there?

Or maybe try to rehabilitate them in a sense as they're growing up. People are a product of their environment. Maybe find a way to change that environment. But killing them, hell no.

If you kill babies you are a baby killer, face facts, the world created Hitler just as much as his mother did. Hitler was warped by his environment. He wasn't born "evil" in my opinion there is no such thing.

Originally posted by IamAbeliever
Or maybe try to rehabilitate them in a sense as they're growing up. People are a product of their environment. Maybe find a way to change that environment. But killing them, hell no.

edit on 27-7-2013 by IamAbeliever because: (no reason given)

Unless the rehabilitation was the thing that caused them to kill of course (being treated for something you didn't do may drive them insane and make them react violently)

reply to post by SaturnFX


I actually wrote a story on this subject back in Feb 2012.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If I could go back in time, yes I would kill a newborn.

But I think the future is not set in stone and therefore, we can only see possibilities. Everyone is capable of evil and Good. Sometimes at the same time even.

Forgot to add on the end of the ops: Are you pro death penalty now as it stands

reply to post by queenofswords

Yes I would say never in my mind I don't care who where what and when...
my belief ....none ...
What does Hitler have to do with the OP? ..It does remind me of something
though... I saw a episode of Twilight Zone (I think) where a person went back in
time to kill Hitler (baby) and SHE couldn't do it because he was a baby she stole
him and he was brought up happy and healthy and destined to exist .......TV what they won't do to get viewers!

Originally posted by queenofswords
Pondered it for ....oh, I don't know. Maybe one second. NEVER.

So, you wouldn't kill baby Hitler?
Imagine how many you would save if you simply took out one...

Are you pro death penalty?

Originally posted by starlitestarbrite
reply to post by queenofswords

 

Yes I would say never in my mind I don't care who where what and when...
my belief ....none ...

But what about the next question?
Are you pro-death penelty

Originally posted by Pistoche
reply to post by queenofswords

 

I completely agree with you, but for argument's sake suppose that you go back in time and are presented with an opportunity to kill baby Hitler, would you take it or let the infant be? Assume that you know for certain he will carry out the same terrifying deeds of our world from the 1930s and 40s.

That raises another question altogether. Let's say that you do kill baby Hitler, what if his place is taken by someone who is of the same mind, and who is actually able to achieve the same outcome, or accomplish the same goals that Hitler had set for himself? Was there any point to killing Hitler in the first place?

Or, what if the world is actually a better place simply because of the existence of Hitler, what if something was learned from his horrible acts, and without them, the world could be even worse off? (I.E. if you don't put your hand against the stove that first time, how do you really know that it's hot?)

reply to post by Pistoche


I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I wanted to answer anyways.

I wouldn't kill baby Hitler, if I had the chance.

The reason being because I am a firm believer in that everything happens for a reason. Yes, what happened was absolutely disgusting and repulsive, but, something far worse could have happened if he were killed as a baby.

We don't know, but what I have learned from all the time travel shows that I've watched, is that you never mess with the past. Because something far worse could happen in place of that.

there is no way to make such a prediction. the kind of logic you're using is purely vertical, where accurate logical premises must incorporate vertical AND horizontal logic.

this is an example:

"if it is possible to know that a baby will be satan incarnate, the baby should be killed?"

that is vertical logic. an if, than chain of events, not grounded in reality.

horizontal logic mixed with vertical logic would say:

"it isn't possible to know whether a baby will become a good person, bad person, or a mix, therefore they shouldn't be killed"

the premise is grounded in reality, and it incorporates an if, than structure.

Originally posted by Carreau
Or another way of asking the question is: If you were the doctor delivering the baby Adolf Hitler ( take your pick of evil humans: Dahmer, Gacy, Stalin, ect), would you let him live or kill the baby right then and there?

If you change the environment preceding each of their events would they ever become the killers they are?

Nothing can predict the future in such a manner due to those variables.
One act of kindness at the right moment is all it could take to change that.

Should one kill baby Hitler? Or love him?

Loving him would change the outcome.

reply to post by SaturnFX


No, I am not pro-death penalty. What justice is there in killing someone who just killed someone else? You're doing the same thing to them that you are now punishing them for.

It doesn't make any sense.

We don't have the right to choose who gets to live and who gets to die.

Let them suffer in life with the acts that they committed against others.

When they die, let God deal with them.

reply to post by SaturnFX

i know where you're going with this.

Are you pro-death penelty

yes.

"then how do you justify your pro-life stance if you're for killing people in select situations?"

killing someone after they have been found guilty of committing a horrible crime is MUCH different than a mother deciding that a baby would be inconvenient.

you seem to be pro-choice, so i will flip the question on to you:

are you advocating that everyone should have the legally supported choice to kill another person if it is convenient? because that is the position you must hold to make the statements you have.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by queenofswords
Pondered it for ....oh, I don't know. Maybe one second. NEVER.

So, you wouldn't kill baby Hitler?
Imagine how many you would save if you simply took out one...

Are you pro death penalty?

I would not kill baby Hitler. I believe in the Butterfly Effect. Who is to say that the killing of baby Hitler might not trigger something else in the world that becomes even worse. Ask yourself, what did the world learn and how did we grow/evolve as human beings because of his horrendous acts.

I used to believe in the death penalty, but have changed my mind over the years. I no longer advocate for it. I may change my mind someday, but in the present, I don't believe in it.