Obey the authorities or you will be punished!

Romans 13
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Hear that people? To rebel against the government is to rebel against god, so be good little sheep and respect every decision the government makes. Their decisions are for YOUR good after all.

All authorities are servants of god and they do his will, so the next time you hear of a court putting down an anti-abortion bill or a bill that outlaws gay marriage, remember that it is god's will that they made that particular decision.

Sit back and let things ride out, because that's what god wants you to do. The government would NEVER do anything to your detriment, because they serve god and do his will.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


HAHA! God puts our governments in authority when it's the right party. But if the wrong guy gets elected, it's Satan's doing!

reply to post by windword


Not according to the bible! Satan has nothing to do with the government, it's all god all the time.

All those terrible decisions were actually GREAT decisions. Why? Because god says so! Duh!

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I guess that means that God is good with gay marriage!

reply to post by windword


Abortion too!

So what's with all the hubbub about Christians thinking abortion is bad? Why are they so adamant about rebelling against their god and his will?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by windword

 

Why? Because god says so! Duh!

Come on man! I just spilled my drink!

Haha. This is the sort of thing that happens when the government edits "The Bible".
I cannot imagine what sorts of real wisdom they edited OUT.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Wow. I'm so glad someone finally laid it all out for me. And here I've been questioning authority all this time. Boy am I mortified....

Thank you, I enjoy seeing scripture, even when it's misunderstood.

If I'm reading it correctly, it says don't rebel (violent overthrow), do what is right, and submit to the authorities(don't break laws). Which of those do you object to?

Doing what is right includes voting Vox Populi, Vox Dei, (not theologically, but you get my point), and utilizing the existing system to accomplish what is right. That would include law suits.

The Bible also says "Put not your faith in Princes." What I'm astonished by is the Bible's depth when considered as a whole. Thanks for the reminder.

P.s. Oh, the headline? "Obey the authorities or you will be punished?" That's hardly news, is it?

reply to post by charles1952


Nothing is taken out of context. I guess you didn't read through the whole passage and failed to see these little tidbits?

Romans 13
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.

Can you really say today's governments only punish those who do wrong?

Romans 13
4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Can you say this is true about today's governments? Do they serve god's will or their own? Do they do stuff for the greater good or for their own good?

Don't lie to yourself.

I think you are taking it out of context. If the bible says not to put faith in princes, then taking this passage into consideration, that means not to put faith into what god has established. Why would god not want you to put faith into his plan?

Seems pretty backwards in my humble opinion.

Wow, there is a lesson, obey the government and you should be safe. Rome was very anti christian back then so keeping a low profile and obeying the laws of the land was common sense. Common sense?

Whats the atheist reason for being sheeple then, cowardice.
Rattle the sabre at Christianity while obeying the laws yourselfs, you are sheeple?,
While condescendingly targeting Christians.
Are you another internet warrior? Fighting only on forums, attack the easy targets not the people with power, scared of them?

The Christian promise is not an earthly promise and systematic theology and biblical theology must be understood before making assumptions like yours.

Apply that scripture with the sermon on the mount, oh no, you wont understand.

This life is a mere shadow of whats promised in Jesus.

reply to post by borntowatch

Wow, there is a lesson, obey the government and you should be safe. Rome was very anti christian back then so keeping a low profile and obeying the laws of the land was common sense. Common sense?

Well, according to the cited scripture, in the OP, it was God's will that Rome was "very Anti-Christian" back then. By the way, why do you think Rome was so anti-Christian, anyway?

reply to post by borntowatch


According to scripture, everything the government does is for your good.

The Patriot Act? That's for your protection.

The NSA illegally spying on you? For your safety.

The Federal Reserve? Working to keep money in YOUR pocket.

Citizens United? Upheld so that YOUR voice can be heard, not corporations.

Make sense? I didn't think so.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Dear 3NL1GHT3N3D1,

Nothing is taken out of context. I guess you didn't read through the whole passage and failed to see these little tidbits?

That's confusing to me. I never said anything was taken out of context, and my best guess is that I read it four times.

Can you really say today's governments only punish those who do wrong?

I can say that government punishes those they think do wrong. It's simple, do something the rulers don't like and you get punished.

4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Can you say this is true about today's governments? Do they serve god's will or their own? Do they do stuff for the greater good or for their own good?

It says that the ruler is God's servant, not that the ruler always obeys God's will. I really don't know where the idea that everything that the ruler does is what God wants to happen comes from.

Don't lie to yourself.

OK. That's always good advice. I'll take it.

If the bible says not to put faith in princes, then taking this passage into consideration, that means not to put faith into what god has established. Why would god not want you to put faith into his plan?

Let me take a shot at it.

God set up a system in which rulers had authority. In the same way, the president of France has authority. Paul is saying, it seems to me, that these guys have the authority, they're supposed to use it for the good of the people. So, people, don't overthrow them, break the laws, assassinate them or any of that kind of stuff. Be peaceable citizens, perform as you should under the system. Pay your taxes, follow the laws, be a respectful member of that ruler's community. If for no other reason, he'll sic the IRS on troublemakers, but also because law breaking, and rebellion are not a normal part of God's plan.

Let the rulers have this world, you can't trust them to help you at all in God's Kingdom. This world is ruled by "The Prince of This World." God's Kingdom is not of this world. So, make sure you're making progress in God's Kingdom, but in the meantime, don't revolt or disobey the laws of this kingdom.

I may not have answered your question, but you know me, give me half an excuse and I'll keep trying.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952

That's confusing to me. I never said anything was taken out of context, and my best guess is that I read it four times.

I should have worded it better. "Nothing is misunderstood" is what I should have said.

I can say that government punishes those they think do wrong. It's simple, do something the rulers don't like and you get punished.

But they do not always punish people for YOUR good. The passage says the government does everything for YOUR good. Is that true in your opinion?

Was Citizens United, the Patriot Act, etc. done for your good? It doesn't matter what the government thinks, it matters what god thinks because they do his will and they serve him, as the passage clearly says.

It says that the ruler is God's servant, not that the ruler always obeys God's will. I really don't know where the idea that everything that the ruler does is what God wants to happen comes from.

But they do everything for your good remember? So if they do everything for your good, they do god's will, because his will is for the good of everyone, right?

Also, what kind of servant doesn't do the will of his master? If he doesn't do the will of his master he is fired, and as we know, government is god's servant, so whatever that servant does is for your good and god's will.

God set up a system in which rulers had authority. In the same way, the president of France has authority. Paul is saying, it seems to me, that these guys have the authority, they're supposed to use it for the good of the people. So, people, don't overthrow them, break the laws, assassinate them or any of that kind of stuff. Be peaceable citizens, perform as you should under the system. Pay your taxes, follow the laws, be a respectful member of that ruler's community. If for no other reason, he'll sic the IRS on troublemakers, but also because law breaking, and rebellion are not a normal part of God's plan.

Again, the passage says that ALL governing authorities do everything for YOUR good.

Is that true or not? Is the system we have in place right now serving the greater good or not? If not, then this passage is proven to be false. If so, you may want to look at the state of the world today, the systems put in place are not for the greater good at all.

And no, you didn't exactly answer the question. Taking Romans 13 into consideration, god is telling you not to put faith into the systems he has established. Why would god tell you not to have faith in his plan?

Paraphrase;
The proper function of government is to punish wrongdoers, by which Paul means people like murderers, robbers, and rapists.
That's why they need to be respected.
If they're not punishing wrongdoers, or punishing people who are not wrongdoers, that's a different ball-game.

Use some common sense, for heaven's sake.
You know perfectly well (unless you're an anarchist) that co-operating with the prevention of murder, robbery, and rape is a goo thing.

reply to post by DISRAELI


You mean like them not punishing all those banksters who caused the collapse in 2008? Yeah, they're still running things and are richer than ever today, even after what they did in 2008.

Was keeping them free for our good?

It's a different ball game I guess.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Obviously Paul was erring on the side of optimism about what authorities would do.
But you know that the basic principle is sound.
Co-operating with the prevention of murder, rape, robbery, and arson is a good thing.

reply to post by DISRAELI


But the government doesn't do everything for our good. Paul says they do, which obviously isn't true. Or do you believe they do?

Read verse 4 in the OP.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

You're missing something here.

When U.S. Citizens (predominately children of missionaries) engineered the overthrow of Kingdom of Hawaii in 1893, they rebelled against their God. They will be judged.

When the Americans and British engineered the Coup against the democratically elected government of Iran, and its head of government Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh on 19 August 1953, it was in violation of the Christian God's authority.

When G. W. Bush decided to topple the Taliban, he was rebelling against his God. He will be judged.

When G.W. Bush claimed that God wanted him to overthrow Saddam Hussein, that was either admitting to lying about the conversation, or he considers his God to be a liar. Either way, he carried through with the plot. He will be judged.

The list goes on and on and on. Any Bible thumping Christian who thinks regime change is a good thing, whether against Gaddafi or Bashar al-Assad is a wicked evil rebel against their Christian God. They will be judged.

Evil wicked hypocrites. Liars. The whole lot of them are rebels against their God. Just ignore their BS posturing. They're rebels plain and simple.