Why Zimmerman is Guilty

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
You have as much legal right to travel on public, or open private, land as anyone else.

This statement has reach for both sides, Trayvon Martin was doing nothing wrong, and Zimmerman decided he was a criminal.

That is a good point.
That is also why Zimmerman called the police. He was reporting suspicious activity. You have the legal right to call the police for this purpose, and let the police sort out if there is something amiss.

Originally posted by BubbaJoe

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by BubbaJoe

Why did he have a damn gun?

simple answer, he was not a convicted felon, therefore has a right to own a gun and have a concealed carry permit.

Why do people keep saying "Trayvon did nothing wrong"??

He doubled back, ambushed and felony assaulted someone in the dark.

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
Zimmerman outweighed Martin by 60 pounds, if he was not able to defend himself, he was due the asskicking he was receiving.

Fat vs muscle...
It's a simple matter of who is in better shape, and who had training, not body weight.

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
If Zimmerman had not had a firearm, Trayvon would not be dead, didn't Zimmerman have some prior arrests?

No, and he was attempting to get a job in law enforcement, which also does not allow a “prior” record.

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
Why did he have a damn gun?

Because its his legal right to own one in the state of Florida as long as he follows the laws. If he had not been in legal possession of the gun, he would have been found guilty.

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
If I was walking through a black neighborhood, on a cold rainy night, and a black man was following me, I would feel threatened.

You may feel threatened, but that does not give you the right to attack without evidence of intent.
What if you thought someone was following you, attacked them, then found out that it was someone running a delivery route that just happened to follow your path?

See where the problem here is?
You would have folks attacking old enemies just because they were behind them in line, and claiming self defense. You'd have crazy paranoids attacking any and everyone because they felt “threatened”. See what a slippery slope that is?

So the threat must be something credible, beyond just being followed.

As I said above, if you believe that you are being followed, your legal options are:
1)Get help.
2)Flee.
3)Verbally confront.

That's it, you cannot attack them, or you become the guilty party.

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
Trayvon Martin was walking through a white neighborhood, doing nothing wrong, and the watch captain is stalking him, I can see where he felt threatened.

Stalking requires repeated instances of following someone with the intent to harass them, and there must be some type of credible threat.

Again that is why paparazzi, and PI's get away with following folks all the time.
Hell, the paparazzi most likely caused Princess Diana's death, yet nothing was done to them legally because they have the legal right to use public property just as much as anyone does.

I follow all of your points, if this had been a black armed adult who shot a white unarmed teenager, this whole story would be painted differently. I am a veteran and a participant in the martial arts, for me an armed man to shoot an unarmed man is a travesty, or an act of war. The debate on this subject has led me to believe that there are people in this country, that will accept overt racism in 2013, and this makes me sad.

Originally posted by Propulsion
reply to post by Willtell

 

Do you know how ridiculous you sound?
I think you need to start thinking!
Zimmerman had a gun Trayvon had a bag of candy

AND A CELL PHONE WITH THIS…..


So yeah, go ahead and run with the poor black kid coming home with a bag of skittles!

Doesn't fly with me bubb...!

I know it doesn’t fly with any of you folks who have profiled a black kid as a thug.
You folks can’t help yourselves you have been brainwashed so much.

Zimmerman beat his wife, attacked a policeman and was on Psychotropic drugs.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Why do people keep saying "Trayvon did nothing wrong"??

He doubled back, ambushed and felony assaulted someone in the dark.

Honestly because its all emotion here, not following the facts.
To most people its an emotional response of “unarmed kid” vs armed grown man.

They fail to see that at 17 if he had survived the attack, and been arrested for Agg Battery, he would have been charged as an adult. They fail to understand that cement is just as much a “deadly weapon” as stoning someone to death. Many don't like cops, and especially “cop wannabes”. They see Zimmerman as sticking his nose in someone else's business, getting them killed, and getting away with it....
I can understand their point, it just does not go along with the law.

reply to post by defcon5


I don't even understand their point. Purposely stating misleading facts is deception, so is purposely ignoring relevant facts.

I am giving great Kudos to Defcon 5, obviously he and I do not agree on this case. He is quoting law, and I am dealing with emotions. Will end there, but as a mod, he has done a wonderful job.

reply to post by Willtell


Are you saying it is normal for 17 year olds who love fighting, thug culture, and have only known violent nature, been preached too in the church of rap music to be hanging out at 2 in the morning??

Every teenager I have seen that has this profile regardless of race is looking for trouble, and is always ready to defend there "honor".

He felt insulted that some clown was following him and wanted to kick his ass, went home, got jacked up in his yard with patriotic home protection theory, and went out to prove himself to himself.

These kids are dam scary, they are ready in a heartbeat to do ANY drugs, any crime, vandalize and beat on people steal other kids clothes off there back, time to do something about this pathetic culture being put on them...

Funny thing is , they feel it "speaks to them" all the while this music is PROGRAMMING THEM to make sure they do nothing different.

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by Willtell
Zimmerman lied like a rug in his statements.

Really, what did Zimmerman lie about?
As far as I know he never took the stand, never testified, and never gave any statement to the jury.
The police, especially Florida police who will arrest someone at the drop of a pin, didn't arrest him because his story fit the facts and there was no probable cause.

GZ’s testimony came into the trial through his self serving statements to the police and his interview with Sean Hannity

If the Jury had taken the time to analyzing all those distorted statements he made such as he said to Hannity that he never heard of stand your ground, something clearly refuted in the trial testimony, as well taken into consideration his blatant lie that his big head was pounded numerous times into the concrete pavement they would have dismissed him as a LIAR and therefore not believe his overall self serving tale that TM ATTACKED HIM OUT OF NOWHERE OR A TREE THAT DIDN’T EXIST.

Along with the forensic fact THAT NOT AN IOTA OF TM’S DNA WAS ON GZ!

Case closed He was and is guilty according to this evidence.

The Jury unfortunately was wrong.

Originally posted by ParasuvO
reply to post by Willtell

 

Are you saying it is normal for 17 year olds who love fighting, thug culture, and have only known violent nature, been preached too in the church of rap music to be hanging out at 2 in the morning??

Every teenager I have seen that has this profile regardless of race is looking for trouble, and is always ready to defend there "honor".

He felt insulted that some clown was following him and wanted to kick his ass, went home, got jacked up in his yard with patriotic home protection theory, and went out to prove himself to himself.

These kids are dam scary, they are ready in a heartbeat to do ANY drugs, any crime, vandalize and beat on people steal other kids clothes off there back, time to do something about this pathetic culture being put on them...

Funny thing is , they feel it "speaks to them" all the while this music is PROGRAMMING THEM to make sure they do nothing different.

Thats real intellegent.

Zimmerman's head didn't look so smashed to me. Had Trayvon SMASHED GZ's head, the gun totin' wanna be would have been in the friggin hospital as opposed to walking away with a band-aid. Get real. Think. I know it's hard, but just think.

Zimmerman was treated by a paramedic for 5 whole minutes after the confrontation. That doesn't sound like somebody who was having their head repeatedly slammed/smashed into concrete. Neither do the 2 or 3 scratches on the back of his head.

Brute force just said it more eloquently than I can do!

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
I am a veteran and a participant in the martial arts, for me an armed man to shoot an unarmed man is a travesty, or an act of war.

As a martial artist aren't you trained to try do do everything to avoid a fight?
That fighting is a last resort?

Martin had lots of other options open to him other then physical confrontation, but he chose the one that got him into more trouble then he could handle.

As a martial artist, aren't you aware of what “improvised weapons” are? That a stick, rock, brick, the side of building, the cement, can all constitute an improvised weapon?

Don't you recall the guy who was beaten to death (or near death), with sticks and stones, in the LA riots after being pulled from his truck cab?

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
The debate on this subject has led me to believe that there are people in this country, that will accept overt racism in 2013, and this makes me sad.

Nothing racist about it, no matter what race either person had been, the same verdict would have been found in the same circumstances. As a matter of fact, if it had not been for the “racial” aspect of the case to begin with, it would have NEVER gone to trial.

This was a politically motivated trial that involved firing police chiefs, withholding evidence, badgering the defense, making unreasonable demands of the defense, replacing the prosecutor, and just about any other illegal tactic that the state could pull to get a conviction. This is why I have said it before and will again, Florida is the worst police state in the US. They have something like an unheard of 95% conviction rate here, its not because of “good police work”, its because the state makes sure it never loses. Why do you think that Florida is ALWAYS making national and international news with its police stories?

Obviously somebody paid off the jury to make the Z man not guilty

L...O...L

Sarcasm off..
Let it go!!!!!!

reply to post by bruteforce13


And yet if Martin wasn't beating his head into the ground how did Zimmerman sustain any kind of injury to the back of his head? How did Zimmerman's nose get broken? Why was Martin's only injury other than the gunshot wound bruised knuckles? Why did the prosecution's own witness state that Martin went to confront Zimmerman? All of this points to the fact that Martin was the aggressor. These facts alone shut down prosecution's charge of Murder 2. Now if the prosecution hadn't been basing their case entirely around media hype and mob rule they might have been able to properly argue for manslaughter. However, I think even that would have been an uphill battle.

Originally posted by bruteforce13
Zimmerman's head didn't look so smashed to me. Had Trayvon SMASHED GZ's head, the gun totin' wanna be would have been in the friggin hospital as opposed to walking away with a band-aid. Get real. Think. I know it's hard, but just think.

Even the prosecution's expert witness; the medical examiner; could not conclude that the next blow wouldn't be fatal. Neither could you, me, Zimmerman or Martin. The fact that the injuries 'appeared' to be non-fatal had no bearing to the next blow -- or the next.

Zimmerman was treated by a paramedic for 5 whole minutes after the confrontation. That doesn't sound like somebody who was having their head repeatedly slammed/smashed into concrete. Neither do the 2 or 3 scratches on the back of his head.

So? You do know that one can refuse treatment or even just say "I am okay". You presume much and only give doubt to Martin while ignoring all that might give credence to Zimmerman. That alone shows you are not here for discussion, only dissension.

reply to post by Willtell

Along with the forensic fact THAT NOT AN IOTA OF TM’S DNA WAS ON GZ!

There was much brought up in trial over the mishandling of the DNA evidence.

The state's witness revealed that Trayvon Martin made contact on the front right shoulder of George Zimmerman's jacket (Stain "N"), and on the bottom right cuff of the jacket sleeve front (Stain "U"), and again near the same area of that right sleeve cuff. The Miami youth also left his DNA on George's jacket on the upper back section, in the area of the upper stitching.

www.examiner.com...

Originally posted by Willtell
GZ’s testimony came into the trial through his self serving statements to the police and his interview with Sean Hannity

He is not under any obligation to tell the truth on Sean Hannity, only to the police in their official report. As I didn't see Hannity, and don't know what he is conflicting about I’d need to know more about what he supposedly said.

You should also be aware that MANY of the witnesses gave conflicting stories to the police when compared with news interviews given later.

You must also recall that the media was trying to crucify him, even to such a point as to edit the 911 call and make it sound “racial”. Whats to say his interview was not also “creatively” edited.

Originally posted by Willtell
If the Jury had taken the time to analyzing all those distorted statements he made such as he said to Hannity that he never heard of stand your ground, something clearly refuted in the trial testimony, as well taken into consideration his blatant lie that his big head was pounded numerous times into the concrete pavement they would have dismissed him as a LIAR and therefore not believe his overall self serving tale that TM ATTACKED HIM OUT OF NOWHERE OR A TREE THAT DIDN’T EXIST.

Edited statements to a news agency, not under oath, and not made in an official police report, have zero bearing or grounds for use in the law.