Is Christianity a Religion of War?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

Perhaps, but its an allegorical story...

He wasn't saying non believers should be killed... that would contradict the "love your neighbour" thing...

IF that's what you were implying in the OP

He is saying that non-believers should be killed. The love thy neighbor line only counts if your neighbor is also of your religion.

Mark 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Jesus was referencing THIS commandment from Leviticus 19:18, "'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

Originally posted by guitarplayer
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

Ok what your point? Christ created all things everything is His and in Revelations it says that every knee shall bow and every one shall confess and all the people not found in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire. Christ is not telling his people subugate the world by the sword and if they do not convert to kill them. And as someone else said this is a parable of the endtime of when Christ will return. At that time the world will be in such a state not because of the Christians but because of the anti-christ.

My point? I think my point is self evident. The title of the thread states my point nicely. You are correct, it is an allegory of End Times. End times when Jesus will return with an army to kill all non believers in bloody conquest.

The Anti-Christ is part of the Christian mythos. This aspect justifies war in the name of Christ simply because those that Jesus is warring against are 'evil'.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

Perhaps, but its an allegorical story...

He wasn't saying non believers should be killed... that would contradict the "love your neighbour" thing...

IF that's what you were implying in the OP

He is saying that non-believers should be killed. The love thy neighbor line only counts if your neighbor is also of your religion.

Mark 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Jesus was referencing THIS commandment from Leviticus 19:18, "'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

No my friend he is not saying that... Yes it is a reference to an earlier passage, but again this is an allegorical story... You need to read closer to see the meaning... which is the reason he spoke in parables in the first place...

Not to mention the fact that it is also a tenant of Judaic faith to love their own people... but he changed that too

The idea behind the story is not to waste the gifts you are given...

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


I can't speak for all Christians, but I would say that I don't want to see war in order to make peace. Unfortunately there is no other way. The world is in peril, the only way to stop this is through war. Keep in mind that even if there was peace, peace would have rules. You can never have world peace without some kind of agreement between everyone. So while you say "obey Jesus or die", the same would still hold true if man made peace came into play. Whoever was in charge would have rules, and you can best believe that if you don't follow those rules there will be a penalty. Whether it be death, or total separation from the rest.

Originally posted by Akragon

The idea behind the story is not to waste the gifts you are given...

... or you will be killed by a vengeful god.

Jesus isn't mincing words here. He is speaking in parable, true, but the message is still very clear.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by Akragon

The idea behind the story is not to waste the gifts you are given...

... or you will be killed by a vengeful god.

Jesus isn't mincing words here. He is speaking in parable, true, but the message is still very clear.

Perhaps to those that don't understand the deeper meaning to the passage... ya its quite clear Jesus is a maniac...

Then again... I don't buy into the crap you'll find in the OT either...

Not into false Gods personally...

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

I can't speak for all Christians, but I would say that I don't want to see war in order to make peace. Unfortunately there is no other way. The world is in peril, the only way to stop this is through war. Keep in mind that even if there was peace, peace would have rules. You can never have world peace without some kind of agreement between everyone. So while you say "obey Jesus or die", the same would still hold true if man made peace came into play. Whoever was in charge would have rules, and you can best believe that if you don't follow those rules there will be a penalty. Whether it be death, or total separation from the rest.

We aren't talking about seeing war to make peace. We are talking about seeing war to ensure the return of a God. Your fatalistic approach, "there is no other way", speaks to the idea that war is an inevitability in the Christian mindset and you are really doing quite a lot to answer my question.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by Akragon

The idea behind the story is not to waste the gifts you are given...

... or you will be killed by a vengeful god.

Jesus isn't mincing words here. He is speaking in parable, true, but the message is still very clear.

Perhaps to those that don't understand the deeper meaning to the passage... ya its quite clear Jesus is a maniac...

Then again... I don't buy into the crap you'll find in the OT either...

Not into false Gods personally...

By all means, if you think you have some deeper hidden understand, please share it with the rest of us. Because the interpretation that I am seeing is in line with my thinking.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by guitarplayer
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

Ok what your point? Christ created all things everything is His and in Revelations it says that every knee shall bow and every one shall confess and all the people not found in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire. Christ is not telling his people subugate the world by the sword and if they do not convert to kill them. And as someone else said this is a parable of the endtime of when Christ will return. At that time the world will be in such a state not because of the Christians but because of the anti-christ.

My point? I think my point is self evident. The title of the thread states my point nicely. You are correct, it is an allegory of End Times. End times when Jesus will return with an army to kill all non believers in bloody conquest.

The Anti-Christ is part of the Christian mythos. This aspect justifies war in the name of Christ simply because those that Jesus is warring against are 'evil'.

When Christ returns it will be to do battle against the anti-christ and those who stand with him. You will be given every chance to convert and then the end. Now where does it say we are to start wars? Nowhere but Christ will finish this war. Now if you want to talk about another religion that commands you to subjugate your enemy by the sword then we could talk about them but that would not be pc now would it.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


Ok. I would argue that it is not the intention of Christians to cause war in order to bring about the return. Other religions may want that, but I don't see it that way. The scriptures teach that the return will happen in it's own time, not because man say's it's time. From what I know the return will only happen once the world has totally turned their back on God.

Originally posted by guitarplayer
When Christ returns it will be to do battle against the anti-christ and those who stand with him. You will be given every chance to convert and then the end. Now where does it say we are to start wars? Nowhere but Christ will finish this war. Now if you want to talk about another religion that commands you to subjugate your enemy by the sword then we could talk about them but that would not be pc now would it.

Yes, I understand the Christian Mythos. Jesus, Satan, The AntiChrist, Hell, and all of the trappings of the faith.

The point of the thread is to illustrate that Christianity's obsession with the return of Jesus at the height of world conflict may be undermining peace efforts simply because of Christianity's belief that no last peace is attainable without Jesus in the mix.

My point is that Christianity believes exactly what you posted. "Christ will finish this war." Jesus the Warrior will smite all unbelievers. If the killing of unbelievers is viewed as warranted, and Jesus often spoke in parables, could Jesus have meant that it was his will for Christians to kill the unbelievers?

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

Ok. I would argue that it is not the intention of Christians to cause war in order to bring about the return. Other religions may want that, but I don't see it that way. The scriptures teach that the return will happen in it's own time, not because man say's it's time. From what I know the return will only happen once the world has totally turned their back on God.

Do you have scripture to back up the claim that Christians shouldn't cause war in order to bring about the return?

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


Is Christianity a religion of war; anymore than water rights can cause war, or natural resourses can cause war, or potencial enslavement of the weak (a fresh labor force) can cause war, or profligating with another separate gene pool or its first cousin (again enslavement) can cause war, or the obtaining of land to enlarge a kingdom can cause war, or the secret knowledge another culture holds including is hoards of gold (understanding gold and its transmutable significance) can cause war there is a difference, that would be WAR IN THE NAME OF GOD.

No Christianity is not a religion of war its one of attrition, not the Roman Conquering style, its the wait and see what happens type of war 'in the name of God' (we take what crumbs NOW we can get). Christianity under Pope Urban (Knights Templar as his crusading soldiers of God) was most certainly a religion of war but that was the 11th century AD, and a proper Norman Army dupted into thinking Jeruselem was the prize. Nothing compares to the treachery and betrayal of these fine men fighting for Jesus, so anything after this point in history is so miniscule, slatternly even as not to be mentioned.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by Akragon

The idea behind the story is not to waste the gifts you are given...

... or you will be killed by a vengeful god.

Jesus isn't mincing words here. He is speaking in parable, true, but the message is still very clear.

Perhaps to those that don't understand the deeper meaning to the passage... ya its quite clear Jesus is a maniac...

Then again... I don't buy into the crap you'll find in the OT either...

Not into false Gods personally...

By all means, if you think you have some deeper hidden understand, please share it with the rest of us. Because the interpretation that I am seeing is in line with my thinking.

Gladly... but before I do... don't get me wrong I agree with the premise of your thread... I only disagree with the context you're using this particular parable... that always seems to be the one people use when they are trying to prove Jesus to be like the OT God... Which he is NOT...

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
.........................
All are born of flesh and spirit... Most people never realise that which has been lost... which was never lost to begin with... only forgotten about because we live in a world full of distraction.
.........................
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
.................................

The ten pounds symbolises the gifts that are given to each soul...
.................................

15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
.................................

Once each man passes, he will face his creator... at which point HE will take into account what said person has done with his life.... and the gifts they have been given
................................

16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.

17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
.................................

The profitable servant....
.................................

18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.

19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
................................

Also the profitable servant.... even though he did not do as well as the first.... At least he tried...
................................

20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:

21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
................................

The wicked useless servant... for because of his fear he did not make use of the gift he was given... he stashed it away so he could return it to the master.... Nothing lost... Yet nothing gained...
................................

22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?

24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
..............................

The servant was useless to the master... thus the master took everything he had given to the servant...

You reap what you sow in this life... We are given our gifts to share with the world... thus when we return home the treasures we laid up will await... so to speak. Matthew 6:19-20
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26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
................................

Those that choose to deny love will not be shown love... the same holds true with mercy and forgiveness

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

Is Christianity a religion of war; anymore than water rights can cause war, or natural resourses can cause war, or potencial enslavement of the weak can cause war, or profligating with another separate gene pool can cause war, or the obtaining of land to enlarge a kingdom can cause war, or the secret knowledge another culture holds including is hoards of gold (understanding gold and its transmutable significance) can cause war,

No Christianity is not a religion of war its one of attrition, not the Roman Conquering style, its the wait and see what happens type of war (we take what crumbs NOW we can get). Christianity under Pope Urban (Knights Templar as his crusading soldiers of God) was most certainly a religion of war but that was the 11th century AD, and a proper Norman Army. Nothing compares to the treachery and betrayal of these fine men fighting for Jesus, so anything after this point in history is so miniscule, slatternly even as not to be mentioned.

edit on 13-7-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

Do you have some scripture to back up your claims? That would be great. Thanks for the input!

reply to post by Akragon


You are going to have to walk me through what any of what that is supposed to mean within the context of this conversation.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


Ah, to see the dagger without the cloak! Well done, sir. Peace should never be denoted by a weapon.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

Ok. I would argue that it is not the intention of Christians to cause war in order to bring about the return. Other religions may want that, but I don't see it that way. The scriptures teach that the return will happen in it's own time, not because man say's it's time. From what I know the return will only happen once the world has totally turned their back on God.

I dont see Muslims turning their back on Allah anytime soon.

I would have reasoned that even an Idiot would have known that Jesus was speaking a parable to his disciples and not in the first person . After all the bible so announced that he spoke a parable and his words highlighted in Red was never broken with a reply from Luke chapter 19 verse thru verse 27 . Goes to show you don't care to know what you are talking about . Oh ye of little understanding !

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
reply to post by Akragon

 

You are going to have to walk me through what any of what that is supposed to mean within the context of this conversation.

It doesn't belong in this conversation... that was my point

you're using that passage in the wrong context...