Bigger issue than marriage and equality.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Superhans

 

I'm reading the title and I admit to some confusion... I'm trying to discern WHAT is a "bigger issue than marriage and equality"...

It's almost like you're trying to make a point that because there's a lot of HIV and AIDS in homosexuals, that's a good reason to deny them marriage and equality...

As if, granting them rights to marry and other equal treatment under the laws, will somehow make the HIV situation worse and if we continue to deny them equality, maybe AIDS will go away? What am I missing?

You clearly are not reading, im sorry you are not....I specifically say that they should be able to marry (which you must have not read). Then you kind of just go off about other crap nobody said... If you don't get what the bigger problem besides marriage and equality is in this thread than its either over your head or you did not bother to read.

It appears too many people are way too focused on things that haven't been said to understand what is being said here.

Double post. Wish I could delete.

Then reply to some of the questions and points to help clarify.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy


Then reply to some of the questions and points to help clarify.

Well you are asking stupid questions based off your strawman arguments. should you ask something about what i have actually written then we could talk...

reply to post by Superhans


I was talking about everyone's posts. Pay attention to the wording.
If you actually cared about your thread and a discussion you would give real replies instead of whatever it is you're doing.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


whatever you say buddy

reply to post by Superhans


Yes, they are also being allowed to adopt children without being fully monitored!

I read a newspaper article couple days ago where one such couple were found to be Molesting their adopted son and were members of a Paedophile ring!!

I'm betting there are many more or will be more of this type story popping up in years to come.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by Superhans

 

Yes, they are also being allowed to adopt children without being fully monitored!

I read a newspaper article couple days ago where one such couple were found to be Molesting their adopted son and were members of a Paedophile ring!!

I'm betting there are many more or will be more of this type story popping up in years to come.

People adopt children and molest them, hm? You think this is a gay-specific problem? You're out of your mind.

Stop watching Faux News.

There are far more instances of heterosexuals molesting children than homosexuals. And -- incoming educational message -- the overwhelming majority of child molesters don't care which gender of child they abuse.

This is exactly why marriage and monogamy need to be promoted to the gay community - it will among other things slow the spread of STI's

If I were to hazard a guess as to why there has been a jump in new infections, it would be complacency - the young are of the false opinion that AIDS is not that serious any more because meds have progressed so much.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by Superhans

 

Yes, they are also being allowed to adopt children without being fully monitored!

I read a newspaper article couple days ago where one such couple were found to be Molesting their adopted son and were members of a Paedophile ring!!

I'm betting there are many more or will be more of this type story popping up in years to come.

Adoption is a huge thing in my family, even straight people have to jump through hoops to get a kid, you don't just just walk in and say you want a kid no matter what your orientation.
I really don't see what this has to do with the AIDS problem...

Originally posted by Superhans
It appears too many people are way too focused on things that haven't been said to understand what is being said here.

I'm not really sure if you've said much of anything, and that's the real issue with that.

All you seem to be saying is that either gay people or gay organisations aren't paying attention to AIDS. Obviously you haven't picked up a gay scene magazine or turned on ProudFM or OutTV lately if we're talking about gay people in general. Gay people discuss HIV and AIDS all the time. And I'm not sure why you would want LGBT political organisations (e.g. GLAAD) to focus more on AIDS when their donations are from people who are trying to fund their political involvements.

reply to post by LightOrange


I am clearly saying that the gay community and gay groups should give more and pay more attention to what is killing them, rights do not mean much when you are dead.
With the ammount of hypocracy within the GLAAD organization it really wouldn't hurt them to donate more towards AIDS research. What is more important, making the NBA fine a basketball player for saying "faggot" or trying to stop a disease that is killing your people more than any other group in the USA.

reply to post by markosity1973

Dear markosity1973,

As you probably know, I like you a lot. In part, that's because there is always a gem or two in your posts that I have to pause over and consider. Take your most recent one:

This is exactly why marriage and monogamy need to be promoted to the gay community - it will among other things slow the spread of STI's

If I were to hazard a guess as to why there has been a jump in new infections, it would be complacency - the young are of the false opinion that AIDS is not that serious any more because meds have progressed so much.

Obviously the first question is how do we promote marrige and monogamy? I think humans have a built in desire to sleep around, at least science seems to be telling us that men do, I'm not as sure about women. I don't understand the desires and drives of gays, my opinion is worthless, but newspapers? Talk shows? NBA public service announcements?

But the second question blossoms forth from the first. Why shouldn't gays, or anyone else, sleep around? Is it primarily to avoid disease? That hasn't worked too well with straights and, as you point out, many gays are trusting in pills to someday cure and prevent all these problems.

Straights have religious commands and societal pressures to avoid adultery and divorce. Granted they're not working too well, but they're there. I don't suppose gays have any religious pressure to stay monogamous, religious pressure hasn't meant too much so far. Current divorce statistics seem to indicate that societal pressure isn't as effective as it was.

So, outside of disease, what's the motivation for marriage and monogamy? Doesn't that have to be there for any kind of education campaign to be effective?

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


You're underestimating how many gay people are religious and how many straight people are nonreligious.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Dear Lucid Lunacy,

You might very well be right. All I had was a vague impression.

But, then, what reason do gays, or straights for that matter, have to be monogamous? How do we present to anyone the idea that "You should be monogamous because . . .?"

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


Well perhaps not specific to marriage but monogamy ensures bonding and therefore feelings of responsibility. Obviously things needed in the family dynamic.

I dont think the gay community needs to be sold on monogamy any more than other orientations. The notion it's this super rarity in LGBT I feel is a perception brought about by negative propaganda. Promiscuity is largely a youth thing.... Which I support People should date to find the one and not rush. Anyways, although some disagree, I think monogamy is a natural progression for humans and we merely need to get out of the way to let it foster.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by markosity1973

 

Hello Charles,

It seems like forever since I last conversed with you. My apologies for missing your post. I have been preoccupied in another thread that is well fun, to put it nicely

Let me respond to your post;

Obviously the first question is how do we promote marrige and monogamy? I think humans have a built in desire to sleep around, at least science seems to be telling us that men do, I'm not as sure about women. I don't understand the desires and drives of gays, my opinion is worthless, but newspapers? Talk shows? NBA public service announcements?

I get where you are coming from in terms of the fear of gay relationships taking over mainstream media. That's not the intention at all. If I think of my own home country of NZ, there are 2 basic ways that it has been promoted -
1) a locally produced TV show called Shortland St, which has a reputation for pushing the boundaries on all types of social issues, not just gay rights has always had gay characters and romances so I'm guessing it will show a gay wedding now that NZ has legalised it. This is only one show and it shows on one channel once a day 5 days a week so it has far less than 1% of actual airtime in the scheme of things.
2) Gay media i.e, magazines, websites and gay venues that are used primarily by the gay community. i.e. unless you have a specific interest in all things gay, you will not see any of this because you have to make the conscious decision to buy a gay magazine, visit a gay website or attend a gay pub, at which point you are giving involuntary approval to anything you might see or hear there.

But the second question blossoms forth from the first. Why shouldn't gays, or anyone else, sleep around? Is it primarily to avoid disease? That hasn't worked too well with straights and, as you point out, many gays are trusting in pills to someday cure and prevent all these problems.

I'm not condemning gay or straight people for sleeping around, it's a part of human nature. However, in the straight community the implied expectation is that you eventually settle down with one man or one woman depending on your gender. Some people do not follow this model, but the majority do. My intention is that we have the same principle applied in the gay community without judgement for those who do not choose to follow it.

Straights have religious commands and societal pressures to avoid adultery and divorce. Granted they're not working too well, but they're there. I don't suppose gays have any religious pressure to stay monogamous, religious pressure hasn't meant too much so far. Current divorce statistics seem to indicate that societal pressure isn't as effective as it was.

And yet the Christian community blames the gay community for all of the above an awful lot. What if as a society we were clever enough to turn that pressure into a desire? i.e. get some clever marketers to do some sexy advertising to make people want to stay monogamous. Statistics from the year 2000 in England actually show that monogamy was improving over there and I have seen articles in the paper from NZ stating that since the great GFC of 2008 people are sticking together in relationships because times are so tough now. It's not outside the realms of possibility that a societal shift back to monogamy could happen. I am advocating that we start the movement and we include that gay community in it.

So, outside of disease, what's the motivation for marriage and monogamy? Doesn't that have to be there for any kind of education campaign to be effective?

In a word; Love. Let's make it sexy again, let's make everyone feel good about marriage, let's celebrate family, let's make monogamy the new freedom by showing all it's benefits. We just need to focus on the positive instead of the negative aspects of not being involved. And this time let's include the gay community in all the positivity, maybe not so heavily in mainstream media but just enough for people to understand that we mean everyone when we promote these values.

Originally posted by LightOrange

Originally posted by Superhans
It appears too many people are way too focused on things that haven't been said to understand what is being said here.

I'm not really sure if you've said much of anything, and that's the real issue with that.

I have said a lot and it has been clear to everyone but you. Maybe i should state more obvious thing like you who have provided such gems like "gay men get more AIDS because they have anal sex"

Originally posted by Superhans
reply to post by LightOrange

 

I am clearly saying that the gay community and gay groups should give more and pay more attention to what is killing them, rights do not mean much when you are dead.
With the ammount of hypocracy within the GLAAD organization it really wouldn't hurt them to donate more towards AIDS research. What is more important, making the NBA fine a basketball player for saying "faggot" or trying to stop a disease that is killing your people more than any other group in the USA.

Okay. You are just being an impossible at this point.

GLAAD is about media control and fighting against homosexual defamation. They're a little outrageous sometimes and even as a gay man I personally find it difficult to agree with many of the things they do.

HOWEVER, you cannot accept donations for media + politics and then go spend it on science & medicine; it's illegal. I've said this three times now, and I'm really not sure why you have so much trouble understanding it.