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well look at it this way.. he did it intentionally fully well knowing they would disobey him, fall, and then learn how to earn their way back up to the level of light of his Kingdom. most probably sent the snake charged with the task of persuading them, commanded lucifer to disobey and take some faithful angels with him who will act as testers for man on earth. to be man's enemy, where he is commanded simply "resist temptation, but love thy enemy". which also might explain why God does not simply Obliterate Lucifer and Evil altogether. he has a job to do, but God has assigned him his job in the other end of the spectrum. so we might have actually failed the test if we didnt eat the fruit but he knew we would. that omnipotence thing.. lol
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by redoubt
But why did he put that tree in the only place they could reach it? He could have put it anywhere.
lols..
parent is leaving teenage kid home for the first time..
"do not throw any parties, and do not go anywhere with the car. the keys for the car are over here and there are drinks in the freezer."
parent then leaves for a weekend trip out of state/country..
hmmmmmmmmmmmm LOL
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by filledcup
well look at it this way.. he did it intentionally fully well knowing they would disobey him, fall, and then learn how to earn their way back up to the level of light of his Kingdom. most probably sent the snake charged with the task of persuading them, commanded lucifer to disobey and take some faithful angels with him who will act as testers for man on earth. to be man's enemy, where he is commanded simply "resist temptation, but love thy enemy". which also might explain why God does not simply Obliterate Lucifer and Evil altogether. he has a job to do, but God has assigned him his job in the other end of the spectrum. so we might have actually failed the test if we didnt eat the fruit but he knew we would. that omnipotence thing.. lol
Then why doesn't the Bible tell us that?
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by redoubt
I'll borrow Filledcup's answer for that:
lols..
parent is leaving teenage kid home for the first time..
"do not throw any parties, and do not go anywhere with the car. the keys for the car are over here and there are drinks in the freezer."
parent then leaves for a weekend trip out of state/country..
hmmmmmmmmmmmm LOL
Originally posted by danielsil18
Originally posted by ClevererRunbeening
Do you know what it is, that you want to manifest itself?
Can't an all powerful God manifest himself in a way that proves his existence?edit on 1-7-2013 by danielsil18 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by ClevererRunbeening
hey guys,
loads of posts to read.. but thats the internet i guess.
Concerning evolution - try to explain please, how Flytrap evolved?
edit on 2-7-2013 by ClevererRunbeening because: (no reason given)
it tells us God is omnipotent!
meaning God knew that adam would eat of the tree and disobey him even before he created adam. that adam would be persuaded by his wife.
it also means he knew the angels would disobey him as well and become fallen before he created them..
yet he still did.. so it's not a mistake.. we are the ones that assume that. and have been instructed to view it that way. the question is.. do u take others' instruction to learn things? or can you think for yourself and decipher and learn for yourself?
Originally posted by danielsil18
reply to post by ccseagull
God allows people to do whatever horrible, vile, evil things they want to, because to do otherwise would be to violate people’s free will, which is something that God’s love for all people absolutely prevents him from doing.
God's love for the man's free will prevents God from stopping that man from raping the little girl. God's love for the little girl wasn't enough.
God loved the little girl and that rapist's free will. He could either choose to save the little girl or to allow the rapist have his free will. God chose to side with the rapist.
Can't you see how absurd that sounds? you are trying to make excuses for something unthinkable. I would recommend you to stop reading the Bible and start using your heart.
God gave us free will. And he will not take it from us. And we do not want him to take it from us
Rapists, murderers, etc. All agree with you, otherwise God would not let them commit their sins. But would that little girl that got raped agree with you, or the parents of that little girl?
What if you saw a movie about Spiderman and he saw that a man was about to rape a little girl, and Spiderman says "I should love and respect that man's free will... I'll let him rape that girl". Awesome movie right? Actually Spiderman would be useless since he wouldn't do anything to stop criminals to love and respect their free will.
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Originally posted by ClevererRunbeening
hey guys,
loads of posts to read.. but thats the internet i guess.
Concerning evolution - try to explain please, how Flytrap evolved?
Flytraps microbial self determination was traveling on an asteroid and collided with earth by way of/from VENUS. No evolution, just a long wait for the fly to evolve, not interested in the crawling roach.
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by filledcup
it tells us God is omnipotent!
meaning God knew that adam would eat of the tree and disobey him even before he created adam. that adam would be persuaded by his wife.
it also means he knew the angels would disobey him as well and become fallen before he created them..
yet he still did.. so it's not a mistake.. we are the ones that assume that. and have been instructed to view it that way. the question is.. do u take others' instruction to learn things? or can you think for yourself and decipher and learn for yourself?
Then why are we being punished for something he knew would happen and ARRANGED to have happen? What was so terrible about the garden and Adam and Eve that the last "6,000 years" had to happen? Why was any of this necessary at all when Adam and Eve could have spent all that time chillin' in the garden and talking to their father? No wars. No disease. No lies. Just a pet zoo featuring his finest of creations.
Why did he have to sacrifice it? Oh wait! He didn't sacrifice a damned thing! He could do it all over again if he wanted to, again and again and again. We're the ones who lost so much. We're the ones who always get stuck with the short end of the deal. What's the point? Why was it so necessary to set us up for failure? It's just so easy to be all-powerful and treat all of your creations like toys, isn't it, but as soon as those toys start to bite back, then OH HELL NO! I am a jealous and wrathful god! You'd better roll over for me or I will smite you with a righteous vengeance!
I don't get it. What's the objective here? What's the point? It seems...reckless. Which is a hell of a thing to say for a god who always knows what he's doing and can never make a mistake.edit on 2-7-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by ccseagull
What you are in essence asking about God is what throughout time people have always asked about God: Why does he allow evil to exist?
And that excellent simple question has an excellent, simple answer: God allows people to do whatever horrible, vile, evil things they want to, because to do otherwise would be to violate people’s free will, which is something that God’s love for all people absolutely prevents him from doing.
Three points:
1) Before "God", nothing existed.
2) "God" created all of evil and all of sin. This includes the creation of Lucifer.
3) "God" created us.
Ergo, every evil and horrible act we commit was known and allowed well before we even thought of it. For every such act, he created that potential, farmed it, harvested it, and gave it the perfect opportunity to manifest, knowing even as he did so that it WOULD manifest.
That's like throwing a gun in the road knowing exactly who is going to pick it up and exactly what they're going to do with it. If a man picks it up and kills three men, are you not responsible for those deaths? Because you put that gun there. Had you not done so, those three men would still be alive.
Consider that.
Originally posted by ClevererRunbeening
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Originally posted by ClevererRunbeening
hey guys,
loads of posts to read.. but thats the internet i guess.
Concerning evolution - try to explain please, how Flytrap evolved?
Flytraps microbial self determination was traveling on an asteroid and collided with earth by way of/from VENUS. No evolution, just a long wait for the fly to evolve, not interested in the crawling roach.
But thats quite a longshot, to assume there are flies on VENUS... how else could this self determination be if there were no flies? If there were flies, they would probably disturb alien beings living there to such degree, that it would make them impossible to concentrate and create Tarot.. and as it is scientifiacly proven that Tarot exists, i doubt there are any flies on venus... No, its without doubt.. its pure deduction, evolution (of tarot) theory proves it!
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by filledcup
it tells us God is omnipotent!
meaning God knew that adam would eat of the tree and disobey him even before he created adam. that adam would be persuaded by his wife.
it also means he knew the angels would disobey him as well and become fallen before he created them..
yet he still did.. so it's not a mistake.. we are the ones that assume that. and have been instructed to view it that way. the question is.. do u take others' instruction to learn things? or can you think for yourself and decipher and learn for yourself?
Then why are we being punished for something he knew would happen and ARRANGED to have happen? What was so terrible about the garden and Adam and Eve that the last "6,000 years" had to happen? Why was any of this necessary at all when Adam and Eve could have spent all that time chillin' in the garden and talking to their father? No wars. No disease. No lies. Just a pet zoo featuring his finest of creations.
Why did he have to sacrifice it? Oh wait! He didn't sacrifice a damned thing! He could do it all over again if he wanted to, again and again and again. We're the ones who lost so much. We're the ones who always get stuck with the short end of the deal. What's the point? Why was it so necessary to set us up for failure? It's just so easy to be all-powerful and treat all of your creations like toys, isn't it, but as soon as those toys start to bite back, then OH HELL NO! I am a jealous and wrathful god! You'd better roll over for me or I will smite you with a righteous vengeance!
Originally posted by danielsil18
I want to ask everyone why wouldn't God just show himself to us and make us all know he exists.
Christians can't say they know God, they can only say they believe in him and they have faith. But why can't God come and show himself to us, tell us that he is real and that he wants everyone to follow his rules. After that we would all know he is real and start following him. Why would he just leave us a book written by men?
One of the arguments Christians make is that God wanted us to have free will. He wanted us to have the choice to follow or rebel. But the story of Lucifer says that he and other angels rebelled...but they knew God existed. So why would it be any different with us?
So my question arises, why can't God just make us know, not believe or have faith, but know he is real?edit on 1-7-2013 by danielsil18 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by danielsil18
I want to ask everyone why wouldn't God just show himself to us and make us all know he exists.
Christians can't say they know God, they can only say they believe in him and they have faith. But why can't God come and show himself to us, tell us that he is real and that he wants everyone to follow his rules. After that we would all know he is real and start following him. Why would he just leave us a book written by men?
One of the arguments Christians make is that God wanted us to have free will. He wanted us to have the choice to follow or rebel. But the story of Lucifer says that he and other angels rebelled...but they knew God existed. So why would it be any different with us?
So my question arises, why can't God just make us know, not believe or have faith, but know he is real?edit on 1-7-2013 by danielsil18 because: (no reason given)