I Converted A Catholic To Atheism

reply to post by wildtimes
I love you too Wildtimes!

I do hope that Serdgiam takes you up on the opportunity to present some of his/her background in your previous thread. It is easier to understand someone's position when you know more about their background and how they came to their current beliefs. Knowledge brings understanding!

@AI: Yeah, I know I went "off track"; no scolding required!

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

What do you think my beliefs are?

Apparently, you are a scientist, and see the world with an eye from physics. I agree with you that the quantum world is NOT subject to prior knowledge of the "laws of physics."

I agree that everything we see and think, is, by our very nature, subjective, and that there is MUCH that we do not know - and perhaps can NEVER know while 'trapped' in this physical realm.

Beyond that, I don't know what your beliefs are. But I am paying attention.

I am a scientist, that is true. I have spoken in this vein on the actual physical side of things, but I also have applied to to what many perceive as the spiritual. Not in a condescending or dismissive way, quite the opposite. I tend to split the two. I have yet to meet someone that is interested in hearing a scientific viewpoint on the spiritual by either "side" of the equation.

Atheism interests me so much for one simple reason, and that is I do not feel it is possible for us to have a "void" in our thought processes. As I mentioned earlier, one of the things I wish to see is imaging of an atheists brain while approaching the subject matter of religion. It is my hypothesis that the neural pathways are actually similar, if not the same, as that of a fully religious person.

Regardless, my most important belief is that the division that is inherent to these topics is needless, and was put in place as a method of control.

People tend to think of control in just one way, but if you present it in a specific fashion, you can control both the positive and negative reaction to any given subject. I think this is what has happened.

My biggest issue, above all, is that so many put their greed before others needs. It is illogical at its base, simply because that greed would actually be satisfied to a much, much further degree if they addressed everyones needs first.

What do you do in your every day life to try to make the world a better place? What do you hope to teach me, specifically?

Originally posted by littled16
reply to post by wildtimes

 

I love you too Wildtimes!

I do hope that Serdgiam takes you up on the opportunity to present some of his/her background in your previous thread. It is easier to understand someone's position when you know more about their background and how they came to their current beliefs. Knowledge brings understanding!

@AI: Yeah, I know I went "off track"; no scolding required!

I need to be clear about this, my background is filled with suffering, loss, and massive amounts of pain.

On one hand, I can see how learning this would give insight into who I am, however, I wish for my acts and actions to be the base of communication.

To sum it all up, the stress in my life due to various things ended up giving me epilepsy. I have severe osteoporosis, which has resulted in many broken bones that do not heal for years, including my spine. During my last seizure, my dog passed away from the stress while I was in the ER. As it stands, I have no actual diagnosis, nor do I have a cure. It is likely I do not have much longer to live. That about sums it up without going into further depth.

reply to post by Serdgiam

Atheism interests me so much for one simple reason, and that is I do not feel it is possible for us to have a "void" in our thought processes. As I mentioned earlier, one of the things I wish to see is imaging of an atheists brain while approaching the subject matter of religion.

Me, too! What do ya know!!!

It is my hypothesis that the neural pathways are actually similar, if not the same, as that of a fully religious person.

Have you read William James,
The Varieties of Religious Experience?

Regardless, my most important belief is that the division that is inherent to these topics is needless, and was put in place as a method of control.

I entirely agree.

I am now retired, but I was a practicing psychotherapist and counselor - Master's Level - which I took up after honing my skills as a person, a parent, and years of work with Children & Families.
The brain is fascinating, and we NEED the 'mapping' that has been suggested.

reply to post by wildtimes


I didnt know that! It sounds like Alfred might have been a bit of a troll himself, lol. Not too nice though...

As an agnostic deist, we probably have some very interesting and similar views on things. Exploring those would be nice.

I know this thread isnt exactly on the course it started with the OP, but I for one think it has kind of turned into something unique. I guess sometimes, we dont know exactly what kind of seed we are planting. Watching it grow can be quite the learning experience in and of itself.

AI, I do hope you can see how neat this thread has become, even with some exceptions, and even with going relatively far off topic. It still seems to be in the same vein as the original post, but perhaps not the specifics. Interesting how these things grow sometimes, I think.

reply to post by Serdgiam

I have yet to meet someone that is interested in hearing a scientific viewpoint on the spiritual by either "side" of the equation.

Well, surprise!!! Now you have.

I'm sorry to hear about your suffering, and your poor dog

And I really do want to hear your beliefs as you deal with your present situation. The science/spirituality link is my main focus. I think we are on the cusp of finding some things out due to the technology that has allowed us to examine the neural connections and experiences of those who are religious, and especially those who have survived NDEs to tell us about it.

reply to post by Serdgiam
I feel for you love! Severe osteoporosis is devastating! And as my husband is epileptic I feel for you in that aspect as well, although a few years ago we finally found the right medicine and proper dosage to keep his seizures under control- thankfully!

When one lives in pain and fear it can color one's views on religion and spirituality greatly. I can understand why you might approach both from a more scientific perspective rather than swaying to an extreme end of the spectrum, but it must be difficult to retain that perspective.

Originally posted by wildtimes
Have you read William James,
The Varieties of Religious Experience?

I have not, but I will now!

I am now retired, but I was a practicing psychotherapist and counselor - Master's Level - which I took up after honing my skills as a person, a parent, and years of work with Children & Families.
The brain is fascinating, and we NEED the 'mapping' that has been suggested.

The brain truly is amazing. I actually am not sure why such imaging has not been done, even just out of curiosity. Perhaps there is some part of atheist scientists that doesnt want the imaging to show they are using the same patterned networks as a religious person.

In my mind (heh), I think it would be a wonderful first step in truly understanding our approach of the unknown though.

How do you think it would change the world if something were to come along that was capable of meeting everyones basic needs at a lesser cost of things like welfare, as well as provide enough energy for everyone to have their part regardless of money? What do you think would grow from this?

reply to post by charles1952

I notice that you both would like this thread to be a positive one with solid discussion, but could I ask just a small question? What do you want it to be about? Wildtimes isn't commited to any particular religion, AfterInfinity is commited to no religion, and there are many criticisms of the concept "Christianity" which appear to based in either error or what seems to me a fringe position.

I was under the impression that I was being questioned as to whether the transition from Catholicism to atheism was a well-informed, rational, or even useful move.

Wildtimes has been attacked pretty heavily in the last week or so, anybody would have at least a small reaction to that. AfterInfinity reminds me of one of those slender, beautiful, darting, tropical fishes. You see it and pause to enjoy it, but as soon as you focus on it, it's somewhere else.

...Thanks, I guess?

reply to post by littled16


Love you too, deary do!

reply to post by AfterInfinity
Aaaaaaaw! Thanks AI!

You know I love you! I've told you before you remind me so much of my oldest daughter it's funny!

Originally posted by wildtimes
Well, surprise!!! Now you have.

Well, nice to meet you dear!

I'm sorry to hear about your suffering, and your poor dog

And I really do want to hear your beliefs as you deal with your present situation. The science/spirituality link is my main focus. I think we are on the cusp of finding some things out due to the technology that has allowed us to examine the neural connections and experiences of those who are religious, and especially those who have survived NDEs to tell us about it.

Oddly enough, my present situation (that has been an issue for about five years) has done *nothing* for my beliefs whatsoever! How strange is that?

I suppose before all of this happened, that I came up with a strong foundation that is unshakable even under the most severe duress.

One thing it did change though is how avidly I approach my work. I have the opportunity to truly change things, but it needs to be dispersed in a unique way. I may not have much time left, or I may have decades upon decades, but either way time is of the essence.

I felt that whether I believed in God or not, that my actions would be exactly the same. That I would do everything with the gifts I was born with to make the world a better place. What do you think we all can do to help each others lives become better? I find it sad that this type of question is usually associated with unrealistic idealism, but I truly feel the world is what we make of it. And we have not made it a very nice place..

What do you think we could do together (I mean those in this thread) that could make someones (maybe even everyones!) life just a little better?

reply to post by Serdgiam

How do you think it would change the world if something were to come along that was capable of meeting everyones basic needs at a lesser cost of things like welfare, as well as provide enough energy for everyone to have their part regardless of money? What do you think would grow from this?

Peace. And it's high time.

I have said repeatedly that since we have some anecdotal evidence of reincarnation, and IF (as I believe) it is true, what we ought to do is ensure that no matter WHERE a newly reborn soul lands, they will have plenty. There should be NO ONE on this Earth who is born into deprivation, filth, polluted air and water, starvation, incessant worry about diseases, or class oppression. We COULD do it today, but greed is stopping it from happening.

That, in my opinion and my educated guess, is what we need to do.
Here I go again: This one can't be emphasized enough....my 'signature video' for purposes of ATS:

reply to post by Serdgiam


My condolences. I can imagine it's hard to see any kind of meaning in life with all that misfortune heaped on one body. You must be a very strong person.

Originally posted by littled16
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

I feel for you love! Severe osteoporosis is devastating! And as my husband is epileptic I feel for you in that aspect as well, although a few years ago we finally found the right medicine and proper dosage to keep his seizures under control- thankfully!

When one lives in pain and fear it can color one's views on religion and spirituality greatly. I can understand why you might approach both from a more scientific perspective rather than swaying to an extreme end of the spectrum, but it must be difficult to retain that perspective.

The combination of the seizures and the weak bones (my spine has a z-score of -3.9, if you want to look it up) is a very, very dangerous combination. It is rather sad that those who love me have to suffer alongside me. I am on Keppra now, but it seems all anti seizure meds eventually cause some bone issues. It isnt looking like a very good end for me, but thats ok.

While I approach things scientifically, I do not do so with the usual "blinders" of science. I think that, referring to what wild and I have been speaking about with brain imaging, we would find the atheist, the religious, and the hardcore scientist would actually *all* have the same neural pathways built up.

That said, I am not a materialist or nihilist. While my experiences have not changed the foundation of my beliefs, they have grown into a really beautiful garden to me. Soon, I hope to start getting all the vegetables, fruits, and herbs that it will yield.

Originally posted by wildtimes
Peace. And it's high time.

It really is, isnt it? Thousands of years, if not more.. of allowing all of this to happen. I felt I had to come up with a way that not only satisfied everyones needs, but that also satisfied the greed present here.

The reality I came to was that in a world where everyones basic needs are met, that the quality of life for everyone even the greediest among us, would improve so drastically that its undeniable. All of the creations, inventions, art, and ideas that are stifled for greed would make the world a better place.

What stumbling blocks do you think exist for this? I am asking these questions because I do have a solution. As you can imagine, approaching this is very dangerous, but the truth is that it will not only satisfy need, but also greed. And yet, there are still massive barriers standing in the way.

I have said repeatedly that since we have some anecdotal evidence of reincarnation, and IF (as I believe) it is true, what we ought to do is ensure that no matter WHERE a newly reborn soul lands, they will have plenty. There should be NO ONE on this Earth who is born into deprivation, filth, polluted air and water, starvation, incessant worry about diseases, or class oppression. We COULD do it today, but greed is stopping it from happening.

I actually think it is our cultural story that stands in our way. It is held as truth that the best way to satisfy greed is by ignoring, and even exploiting, others needs. Think of the world we would live in, after a generation or two, where even the poorest amongst us could provide their own ideas and inventions. Where they could be connected to EVERYONE else in the world through technology, and *everyone* could focus solely on progress (even with greed!) instead of just meeting our basic needs with our daily efforts.

Soon here, I think we can go into my own ideas for solutions on this. Through my work, I have made some amazing discoveries. We are currently working on these, but due to the cultural story defining the best way to satisfy greed, we sadly need to be willing to give our lives to get these things out there..

reply to post by Serdgiam
Keppra is considered one of the safest seizure drugs with the least amount of side effects, but it can be damaging to your bones and liver. My husband has to take calcium and D3 supplements along with his Keppra and has to go for regular bloodwork to test the levels of the medicine in his liver. The good news is that he hasn't experienced any more seizures since being on Keppra, and one of my girlfriends who is also on Keppra now hasn't experienced any more seizures. I imagine that you are probably having to take many more supplements. Epilepsy and osteoporosis is a dangerous combination.

Just guessing as a layman here, but I agree that regardless of religious beliefs we all possess the same neural pathways, but I would like to see a study done on the subject. Stay well!

reply to post by Serdgiam

One thing it did change though is how avidly I approach my work. I have the opportunity to truly change things, but it needs to be dispersed in a unique way. I may not have much time left, or I may have decades upon decades, but either way time is of the essence.

I like to think that we all have the opportunity to change things.
I don't have much time left, either. Simply because I am beyond "middle age"....
I know I haven't as much coming as I had up to now.

I try to change things in my unique way also.

I hope you have the decades left to do so.

(And also, now I'm REALLY curious to know what your former incarnation on ATS was).

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

My condolences. I can imagine it's hard to see any kind of meaning in life with all that misfortune heaped on one body. You must be a very strong person.

I see more meaning than ever.

If I, someone with some very legitimate difficulties (I have only brushed the surface), am able to truly make the world a better place... why not enable people such as myself to do so? I am not alone in that, and I know it. But, the current system and even society in general, looks at me as a liability. I need to focus on meeting my basic necessities such as food and clean water. While this creates serfs, it does not create a world that can satisfy both need and greed.

I like to think that the strength I have gained can be used to persist, with determination, making the world a better place. The only thing holding me back is our cultural story.

If I just came out in the open with my theories (not just hypotheses), and our technologies, I would likely be killed rather quickly and probably be labelled as some kind of traitor. I have to tread carefully, which is why I participate in discussions such as this. We NEED to have a different cultural story, or these things will never come to fruition. As a whole, its all very frustrating.

reply to post by Serdgiam

I actually think it is our cultural story that stands in our way. It is held as truth that the best way to satisfy greed is by ignoring, and even exploiting, others needs. Think of the world we would live in, after a generation or two, where even the poorest amongst us could provide their own ideas and inventions. Where they could be connected to EVERYONE else in the world through technology, and *everyone* could focus solely on progress (even with greed!) instead of just meeting our basic needs with our daily efforts.

Soon here, I think we can go into my own ideas for solutions on this. Through my work, I have made some amazing discoveries. We are currently working on these, but due to the cultural story defining the best way to satisfy greed, we sadly need to be willing to give our lives to get these things out there..

I'm very interested to hear your solutions and discoveries.

Greed is the twin sibling of religion at this point.
We MUST address the real problems of need, deprivation, intolerance, and exploitation.

Whatever it is you have come up with, I am 'on board' - as long as you reveal something that takes away "religious" zealotry and "greed."

Okay, so, we're cool. Thanks for hanging in there long enough to hear me out.