Master Mason (PHA)

reply to post by LABTECH767


and the alpha and omega, the first and the last. i have this little theory that the rod and staff of jehovah are the models for the crook and flail of pharaoh and that pharaohs as god men, were founded originally, on the first pharaoh, who i believe predated the flood (and therefore was not nimrod/narmer/enmerkar).
lol super condensed version.

reply to post by KSigMason


Very colourful, By Mammon I mean money and what other purpose do you claim, by fraudulent well, by Templer order well you said it, YOU were founded by OATH BREAKERS whom betrayed OUR OATH, I do not condone torture but the REAL Templers were celibate warrior monks whom would most certainly have taken your order on in there own style especially since your sub lodges use there name as a claim to descent and yes you DO CLAIM DESCENT FROM THEM and US and the (Illuinatus whom were not Christian but Gnostic heathen philosophers such as Adam Weishaupt the founder of the known order of Illuminati whos knowledge only goes back to his own period but being a typical lawyer he was a good con man whose legacy lives on in you) and also disclaim your erroneous mixing of his philosophy with our Christian RosiCrution Gnosticism that was partially taken to your order by the OATH BREAKERS.
No mason is a RosiCrution though many claim the title.

I suspect you know nothing of the war between the chapter house and the lodge but money and numbers prevailed over truth and knowledge.

Originally posted by Skjord
reply to post by IslandMason

 

Wow. With evidence like that, you just blew it all out of the water. Good thing you linked me an independent source that did an investigation of the matter, instead of a freemasonry website. Wow. Just bravo. *clap clap*

All the predictions are spot on. Let's focus on the WW3 prediction.



William Guy Carr wrote this in the 50's. Do you know anyone that could make a prediction like that on WW3? Of course not. And the Middle East situation is obliviously gearing forwards that.

Furthermore;

Why do you have people associated with mass murder and war crimes pushing a "New World Order".

Is this some sort of Inside joke? Is it "just for fun" or kicks?

You can find out the truth for yourself - just google all of these terms together: "Pike", "Mazzini", and "Leo Taxil".

There are a TON of lies about Freemasons and Freemasonry that have been propagated and it's easy for people to get swept up in the whole CT thing. You're not the first to think that Carr wrote the truth, and you won't be the last. William Guy Carr was a conspiracy nut, parroting the work of devout fascist, Edith Starr Miller, a woman whose "research" was gained from the likes of Leo Taxil (the admitted Masonic hoaxer - see the "Taxil hoax"). Neither are to be taken as gospel. All of this is searchable.

You should definitely look into this, but stay away from from Carr and Icke and Schoenbelen and all of the others who have or had a vested (financial) interest. And stay away from CT websites, because they'll simply keep quoting the same old lies like the Taxil Hoax as gospel.

Originally posted by Level_Head

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by IslandMason

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by IslandMason

 

is the op not allowed to respond to me?

Sorry, didn't mean to take over... ;-)

i don't mind talking to you, i was just asking if he's not allowed to respond ? i mean, the way your orgs are designed can be a bit confusing from the outside, looking in, such as pinocchio, who is talking riddles. i am not exactly sure how such things do anything for any one but the initiated, and since this thread is supposed to be here to help the uninitiated, it seems like pinocchio was fishing, not for the souls of men but the opportunity to make himself look good at the expense of people who don't know what the flip he's talking about.

I dont think he is a Freemason so dont let hi, keep you from asking questions. Freemasons usually get right to the point. We dont really talk in code and riddles like that.

edit on 15-6-2013 by Level_Head because: (no reason given)

Ahhh, I get it - you're talking about Pinoccio. OK. I thought it was me, because that's who he was responding to, and just sent you a U2U with my lodge number and so on. My mistake.

I was gonna join the masons once.

After I cleared and passed everything I changed my mind at the end.

At least I got to see inside a lodge finally.

...watch the cartoon

here's my 2c and i probably don't need to post here again

the "authenticity" of the Pike/Taxil "letters" isn't the issue.. it's the *info* they contain, i actually read that link you provided (the debunking at conspiracyarchive.com) thanks for trying to help, but i think you seem to be missing the point,

there seem to be many "points" being overlooked simpy because they're moral objections, such as when it's pointed out masonry could do more to help, these objections are emotionally based rather than logically based

the reason it can't be that way is because "freemasonry" was supposedly formed in 1717, but the "craft" goes way back.. the lodge as most people know it is more or less a harry potter scene.. and we all know some freaky # goes on at hogwarts ..it's just a school system.. but 'education for what?' one might ask, consider the 2nd degree mason "given permission to investigate the mysteries of nature" then go watch the cartoon on page 1 if you haven't already.. it should all make a lot more sense..

"freemasonry" can't really step up and do something on a world stage in the same way "dentistry" can't.. and that's half the reason most of those McMasons are seemingly incredulous when the conspiratorial allegations are laid against them..

and "religious" stuff aside for now

consider this... it's *possible* a small group of well connected DENTISTS could form a type of "illuminati" or criminal cabal... isn't it?

now think about how the masonic lodge system is structured, ..compartmentalized even..., ..and world-wide



..it's also misleading to say "anyone can come in for dinner" when there is a tyler stationed at the door to keep people out

Originally posted by UNIT76
...the "authenticity" of the Pike/Taxil "letters" isn't the issue.. it's the *info* they contain...

Huh? Of course the authenticity is the issue. The hoax letters were written long after the events 'predicted' in them took place, obviously they will detail events exactly as they happened. All this amounts to is confirmation bias.

...the reason it can't be that way is because "freemasonry" was supposedly formed in 1717, but the "craft" goes way back..

Most of us here already knew that, it is fairly common knowledge. There is evidence that points to Operative Masonic guilds in the 10th century.

...the lodge as most people know it is more or less a harry potter scene.. and we all know some freaky # goes on at hogwarts...

Such as?

now think about how the masonic lodge system is structured, ..compartmentalized even...

It is more accurately described as decentralized with no overarching governing body.

..it's also misleading to say "anyone can come in for dinner" when there is a tyler stationed at the door to keep people out

The Tyler is stationed outside of the lodge room only when the Lodge is at Labor. We frequently have guests and visitors for dinner downstairs in the dinning area.

...good deeds are done in the light of day...

I prefer to give anonymously. No one needs to know that I may have contributed to them.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
(whom if they were still a viable order would batter down the doors of you blasphemous lodges and drag your grand dragons out by the scruff of there necks

Plus, wouldn't this violate Treuga Dei and Pax Dei?

reply to post by LABTECH767

First off, learn to write with sentences, not one long string of words.

Freemasonry wasn't started by "oath breakers."

There's nothing about Freemasonry that the Templars would have opposed nor have you provided proof of us "ripping them off".

...and yes you DO CLAIM DESCENT FROM THEM...

No we don't. I'm very aware of Freemasonry's stance on the Templar perpetuation and the myths that attempt to tie it to Freemasonry.

From the Grand Encampment:

There is no proof of direct connection between the Ancient Order and the Modern Order known to day as the Knights Templar.

Like I said before, you should read Compasses and the Cross by Stephen Dafoe who easily dispels many of the myths surrounding the Templars and the Freemasons.

No mason is a RosiCrution though many claim the title.

This is something you cannot say. I know many Masons who would run Rosicrucian circles around you.

How do you presume to lecture me on Freemasonry?

reply to post by ElOmen

You didn't have to petition to see the inside of the Lodge.

reply to post by UNIT76

The authenticity is the issue as it delves into the credibility of it all.

the reason it can't be that way is because "freemasonry" was supposedly formed in 1717, but the "craft" goes way back..

The first Grand Lodge was formed in 1717, but there are Lodge records that go back much farther.

Hogwarts really? LOL

now think about how the masonic lodge system is structured, ..compartmentalized even..., ..and world-wide

Yeah, the system is a bit more complex than that. Particularly when you step into the appendant orders.

..it's also misleading to say "anyone can come in for dinner" when there is a tyler stationed at the door to keep people out

We have people, non-Masons, come to our dinners all of the time. The dinners are not tyled functions.

Also, Freemasonry does good deeds in the light of day all the time.

reply to post by KSigMason


As for god's peace, in keeping that peace the Templer was sworn to use his sword only for such but that did not mean he could not use his fist, they were actually negotiators and one particular theory about the rivalry that erupted between the two sibling chapters (The Knights of St John whom were not given autonomy and the Knight's of the Temple whose original purpose was to maintain safe passage for Christian pilgrims and the safety of the temple mount cathedral were given autonomy-A source of much consternation on the part of later pope's leading up to clement the anti pope(and not the only one)), now as you know the Knights of the Temple spent more time negotiating peace but before any one claim's they if the false king of Jerusalem (Since Christ is the real king) had attended there request for help they may had held Saladin's army at bay long enough for the defenders to have defeated at least that attack, crack (Karrak) de chevaliers would have still stood (though as you know it was badly place logistically).
So yes it would have breached the Pax Dei but not in the sight of a defender of the Pax Dei.
First of all let me point something out to you, the AMORC or Ancient and Mystical Order Rosi Crucis are not RosiCrution (though they number more) but are in fact a Lodge of Masonry and let me point another thing out, I am not against all Masons but those whom draw there history back to the German lodge of the 1700's are tainted by the fact that Lower Echelon RosiCrution's of wealthy birth Broke there RosiCrution Oath and Joined the Merchants guild there forming the dominant Masonic German Lodge of that period, If however you are a direct descendant of the original stone mason's guild and not the merchants guild then I have no problem with you, And by the way I don't run in circle's that is the mason's with there recreation's of Stone Henge.
Anyway my oath is the original Crusader oath that those same Rosicrutions Broke and though I am not bound I choose to keep it as it is to Jehovah.

Further to this except for were you are similar though not as noble a cause I do not know your inner secrets and neither would I wish too though My grand father was a very high Orangeman, though I owe allegiance to Christ only as after all you can only have one master and only a dog bows down to his peer.

reply to post by LABTECH767

LOL I love your want of violence...really speaks to your character.

I'm also guessing that English is not your primary language.

So yes it would have breached the Pax Dei but not in the sight of a defender of the Pax Dei.

A breach is still a breach, I don't care what the perception is. Keep playing the moral grey ground.

First of all let me point something out to you, the AMORC or Ancient and Mystical Order Rosi Crucis are not RosiCrution...

My Rosicrucian friends are not all a part of AMORC. I am speaking of also SRICF, SRIC, SRIL, and SRIR.

...but are in fact a Lodge of Masonry...

No they are not. AMORC is not tied to Freemasonry.

...I am not against all Masons but those whom draw there history back to the German lodge of the 1700's...

Are you referring to the Rite of Strict Observance that died in the 1700s? Do you not realize that the 1782 Congress of Wilhelmsbad ended with the rejection of Templar origins?

If however you are a direct descendant of the original stone mason's guild and not the merchants guild then I have no problem with you

Now I can sleep more easily.

And by the way I don't run in circle's that is the mason's with there recreation's of Stone Henge.

I guess you don't know what idioms are.

Anyway my oath is the original Crusader oath...

I highly doubt it since there is no existing document that covers the oaths and rituals of the original Templar order.

My grand father was a very high Orangeman...

Nobody cares. That is meaningless.

though I owe allegiance to Christ only as after all you can only have one master and only a dog bows down to his peer.

Masons don't have multiple masters either. Please stop with this superiority complex you seem to have.

Why don't people focus on what these mystical schools teach, rather than where they came from and who runs them?

reply to post by KSigMason


Sorry matey I am British and a descendant of Princess Alexandra so let's leave it at that.

Just one final thing, like many I find it infuriating when weak argument has to turn to complaining about a posters grammatical ability, I am not after the Pulitzer prize here.

labtech is this a problem regarding protestanism and catholicism?
i'm trying to figure out what the underlying issue is.

reply to post by undo


No as I have no problem with either protestant or catholic and take an Ecumenical view of Christianity, it is just that the Masons (Not the individual members) have steered a path less altruistic in recent times than the far more acceptable mason's of the past, they are now more a business club and too many shady deals are made in the confines of there lodges, at the beginning of modern masonry in the latter part of the 18th century they were founded by several Rosicrucian's in Bavaria whom broke there Oath to Jehovah and corrupted there entire chapter house by merging it with the local merchant's and stone mason's guild, they then became more like a hidden Hansiatic league than the Keepers of Gnostic tradition that the Chapter house had been, over time there ceremony's became more obscure and less Christian and during this same time the Hellfire club had amassed a great number of the nobility of Europe into there coven's which later gave rise to the forerunners of the Skulls such as Bush was a member of and there descended hierarchy also initiated many new members in such proxy's (which they did not found but certainly made use of as the Bullingdon club), this same Hierarchy also over time took control of Adam Weishaupt Illuminati and they in turn were co members of the lodges that later led to the further corruption of the core principle and teaching of the Masonic sect's, However though also having members drawn from the Academic class the Rosicrucian's never sought to expand there influence as political and economic power were never there goal, only the search for enlightenment led the few remaining chapters whom were in Portugal, Spain, Italy and Scotland.

In short they are along a different path to us that is in error and they also have been subverted at many time's by such as the Nazi party, the Ku Klux Klan (Talk about me not spelling right) amongst other nefarious and evil sect's that have fallen under there umbrella.

It would be an outright lie and very much wrong however to say flatly that masonry is bad as it is not, I just don't agree with it, there are many good people whom are masons at all level's of there hierarchy but anything including us that is done in secret may hide corruption so as an outsider I would urge you to not take my word any more that there's - especially since I am obviously biased.
Rotas.

labtech

i've done only a smidgen of research on this topic, but correct me if i'm wrong: all the countries you listed as having correct lodges/teachings are predominantly catholic. is it possible that the initial trouble, and the initial belief that these organizations were no longer christian, and the belief that they had always been christian till the split, is the result of protestant masonry vs. catholic masonry?

reply to post by undo



It is possible and actually you are correct, I am an Anglican however, the Rosicrucian movement actually began in Spain during the time of the moor's but was a Christian gnostic sect and the catholic church would never have tolerated such so it went underground and spread very slowly after the defeat of the Moors in Iberia, though we trace our history back to Judaea and may have begun as a Christian Jewish sect like many others, We do use a crusader Oath(which in itself would be innocuous to our claim of legitimate origin in Judaea and our foundation story which is Gnostic and not actual is coded knowledge though there are those that don't understand and this shows an un enquiring mind.
The truth is we are probably no better than the vast majority of mason's but our goals are our original goals though they are only original as far back as the 17th century as before that only the grand master has access.

Like I said earlier any one whom is a Christian weather mason or Rosicrucian is free of there oath as Christ forbade the swearing of Oaths especially in the name of the father but that does not stop us trying to keep them for the sake of personal honour though some sect's of mason's may take there words more literally as this story may tell you.
www.freemasonrywatch.org...

reply to post by LABTECH767

Uh huh...right, but regardless this supposed lineage doesn't still disprove anything I said above.

Also, if you were British I would hope that you have a better grasp on the English language. If you want anyone to take you serious you need to be able to write to your audience and ensure they can comprehend your argument.

reply to post by LABTECH767

How has the institution led a bad path? What shady deals are struck within Lodge?

What proof do you have your Bavarian theory?

...this same Hierarchy also over time took control of Adam Weishaupt Illuminati and they in turn were co members of the lodges that later led to the further corruption of the core principle and teaching of the Masonic sect's.

It's hard to say this when we can easily trace the ritualistic changes over the centuries.

reply to post by undo

There's isn't Protestant Masonry and Catholic Masonry.

reply to post by LABTECH767

You can call your oath the "crusader oath", but there is no way for you to prove that.

I love how your entire argument is one of pedigree. You're argument is one of "my group is better than yours."

P2 Lodge? That's your example? You do realize that the P2 Lodge lost its charter from the Grand Orient of Italy (GOI) in the 70s. The GOI is recognized by American Grand Lodges, but that didn't occur until the 90s. P2 is the farthest example of what Freemasonry is than anything I could imagine.

Plus, you're quoting a website ran by a religious nutbag.

Originally posted by Pinocchio
HIRAM ABIF IS PRONOUNCED: HAREM ABOVE!

Not a place one can get to so easily...
This delves deeply into the subconscious mind.
It has but one query... "know thyself!"...

Ninth degree teaches uninitiated folk the nine no no's.
bully coward liar thief drunkard whore proud beggar joker

Fourteenth degree teaches uninitiated folk a tenth no no.
traitor!

The fourth degree teaches geometry...
A being supreme in size and shape. Thus its likely that with fear one concludes silently as if secret to delve in unto the sacred rule of geometry. This shape is classic... "Draw the line!" And that is the point!

Wherein this lesson abides is in the comedy of the golden calf.
gold/yellow is the color of fear! The calf is grown yet young, hence calf. Aka bully!

Those who seek to know a woman are mettlesome and perverted.
Knowthyself... gaotu will raise to the harem above.

Do not be like the three idiots who killed Hiram.

Moreso... the eighteenth draws it justification from the Bible.
"Do not suffer a witch to live" up for interpretations.
but mainly a man who stands up to woman. He dares to cross the line.
she is as a rose. The degree teaches the science of nature. Meaning he wanted it... naturally.
men are sometimes the lowest of the low.

I'm gonna stop now.
. Because I love my ATSians enough to let them experience for themselves.

From 0 degree to 33rd... cruel jokes. Faith's sense of humor.

~Pinocchio...

Yoohoo! Come on(e) tell us the story, here is mine a(bridge)d:

You will stop reincarnating when you are judged in your own personal moment (when you experience it you will know) and you fix what you did horribly wrong when you first got here (countless lives ago). It will send you into shockwaves of life(lives) pattern recognition afterward (synchromystically) and subsequently you will open your eyes while standing, don't take it sitting down. Then you meet him, ask the question and your true emotion will snap out of you. You will ask for a drink of water and ask how much you owe and they will say it is free and why should they charge you for something free. The police will show up and the "good Cop" will have a green tatoo of a crecent moon and star. You will tell him that you understand that he just wants respect. You will ask him what that tattoo means to him, he won't get a chance to finish explaining. He will ask you to draw a picture and you will one line drawing (when you never had the ability to do so before) a scene particular to what malefic deed you committed and where it took place (my drawing was a beach and a seagull flying). You will be jailed and "bailed" out by your "bereaved" father. Taken to a hospital and you will notice something you can do and if you abuse it then you will pay for it later. The rest is very @#$%ed up but you will be fearless for some reason. Good Luck and listen to true Tibetan Chants it will get you through the recovery.

I'm just waiting for the cop to show up and finish.

The sun will come out tomorrow! Daddy sits and listens...

"Daddy's" been out there hunnerts o' times -- but he says one time he traveled to the East, but didn't make a dime, meant more to him than all th'other trips he'll ever make -- I don't get -- do you? "

hood*wink*

Check thisATS Forum Post
Look for the fourth post, from SuperiorEd.
Aside from that tomorrow brings these energies, time for plans to become actions!

June 18 is 1 Cauac/Kawoq. Cauac’s first soft, warm droplets fall onto your face, inspiring the first gush of intent, the first rivulet of determination, the first wave of action. Trust the impetus of Hun and the raw power of Cauac to deliver you to the place you need to be to realize the full extent of your dreams. But it is up to you to harness and shape their intertwined energies, and give meaning and substance to the rainstorm you generate. Will it be a soft spring rain to infuse life into your orchards, or will it be a hurricane of unstoppable force?

Originally posted by Level_Head
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

This part of the wiki link "he was initiated and passed in the Lodge Le Progress de l'Oceanie No. 124 (under AASR jurisdiction, later No. 371 under Calif" because of the Structure of Freemasonry. AASR jurisdiction only govern the Scottish Rite (degrees4-32) and not degrees 1-3. So in essence, there should be a Grand Lodge name there and not AASR.

Not entirely true. Historically, there WERE Scottish Rite degrees 1-3, and, in fact, they're still conferred in New Orleans.