Concern grows over GCHQ Prism spying allegation

Home Secretary Theresa May is coming under pressure to investigate claims Britain's electronic listening post GCHQ has been gathering data through a secret US spy programme. Keith Vaz, chairman of the home affairs committee, said the allegations were "chilling". According to The Guardian, GCHQ had access to data covertly gathered from leading internet firms in the US. GCHQ said it operated within a "strict legal and policy framework". The Guardian says it has obtained documents showing that the secret listening post had access to the Prism system, set up by America's National Security Agency (NSA), since at least June 2010.

Full article.... www.bbc.co.uk...

I wonder how deep this entire thing actually goes, so far
the signs point to really bad, i have a feeling that this is
just barely the tip of the proverbial ice berg, to see a little
positive maybe it will drag a bunch of other stuff into the
lime light and actually encourage change globally......

I would like to see a free world, no reason it cant exist.

Well, Echelon apparently comprised/comprises The United States, United Kingdom and Australia as the nations running and benefiting from it, as the case may be. I'm not at all surprised to learn the offspring and mature versions of it are also run by at least 2 of the 3, if not all 3 for those as well. I think George Orwell would look at today's world and think he's book was kinda pathetic and friendly in depicting "1984". They weren't doing much at all by comparison.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I think George Orwell would look at today's world and think he's book was kinda pathetic and friendly in depicting "1984". They weren't doing much at all by comparison.

So very true, the world today easily surpasses even his dystopian vision of the future.
The more I find out about how sick the world is, the more I lean to the hypothesis that we are actually in hell, and it is our job to fight our way out of it. The only way to do that IMO is to realise it for what it is, and then to try and make some sort of positive change to it.

reply to post by OneManArmy


I'll add a thought that occurred to me since posting my first one, as well. The more I find out now about the sheer depth of big brother watching in our lives? The more I'm coming to believe we're all just hopelessly naive to have ever thought we get away with anything in the modern world. All the little scams, schemes and tricks we each, at some level, pull in life, someone is seeing and choosing not to do something about. From a song downloaded to a line fudged on a tax return...to something truly serious.

Of course, it really is paranoid to illness to think it's always been that way or even was that way until the recent past. What isn't at that level now though, soon will be, by all indications. Welcome to a world soon to be where "getting away" with anything isn't the reality. It's what you're permitted to believe you got away with.

Just watch we don't yank the leash we're on too hard, right? They'll quickly hang us with it.

I expect we'll probably find the Americans were spying on all of us and sharing the info with the UK government, while GCHQ was spying on everything the Americans did, and shared it with them. Thus neither nation is technically spying on their own citizens, they're just getting somebody else to do it for them.

However, my instinct is that this has violated a great many UK laws, and I have vague confidence that this will run.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

I'll add a thought that occurred to me since posting my first one, as well. The more I find out now about the sheer depth of big brother watching in our lives? The more I'm coming to believe we're all just hopelessly naive to have ever thought we get away with anything in the modern world. All the little scams, schemes and tricks we each, at some level, pull in life, someone is seeing and choosing not to do something about. From a song downloaded to a line fudged on a tax return...to something truly serious.

Of course, it really is paranoid to illness to think it's always been that way or even was that way until the recent past. What isn't at that level now though, soon will be, by all indications. Welcome to a world soon to be where "getting away" with anything isn't the reality. It's what you're permitted to believe you got away with.

Just watch we don't yank the leash we're on too hard, right? They'll quickly hang us with it.

If I hang with my integrity intact and knowledge within myself that I was honourable in life then so be it.
There is nothing to fear but fear itself, and it takes a few brave men to set the scene for the not so brave to follow.
Personally I wish people were not followers, but generally we seek "outside assistance" in all matters from politics to defending ourselves. This is especially true on sites like ATS, where there is a lot of procrastination and little action. I too am guilty of this, and I seek to change it.

Originally posted by Painterz
I expect we'll probably find the Americans were spying on all of us and sharing the info with the UK government, while GCHQ was spying on everything the Americans did, and shared it with them. Thus neither nation is technically spying on their own citizens, they're just getting somebody else to do it for them.

This is what occurred to me also. I remember a certain episode of Spooks (yes, I know it's a little odd to be bringing up a BBC spy drama, but it is relevant lol) where it was suggested that the US does "our dirty work" and we do theirs, I think this was even in relation to the illegal monitoring of citizens too.

I agree with you on this, I think this is likely to be a part of that "special relationship" they're always going on about, basically scratching each others backs and invading the privacy and rights of people on behalf of each other.

Originally posted by Rocker2013

Originally posted by Painterz
I expect we'll probably find the Americans were spying on all of us and sharing the info with the UK government, while GCHQ was spying on everything the Americans did, and shared it with them. Thus neither nation is technically spying on their own citizens, they're just getting somebody else to do it for them.

This is what occurred to me also. I remember a certain episode of Spooks (yes, I know it's a little odd to be bringing up a BBC spy drama, but it is relevant lol) where it was suggested that the US does "our dirty work" and we do theirs, I think this was even in relation to the illegal monitoring of citizens too.

I agree with you on this, I think this is likely to be a part of that "special relationship" they're always going on about, basically scratching each others backs and invading the privacy and rights of people on behalf of each other.

Yes I would have to agree with both of you, this crossed my mind a few years ago.
I cant remember what prompted that thought back then, I think it was when I first learned of echelon, but I cant be sure.

Through all the suspicion, I realized that this PRISM program is nothing new. The press is sensationalizing it, more like demonizing it, but I remember reading about it on the Internet back when Windows 95 and dial up modems were the only way to connect, maybe the late 90s. NSA PRISM program was like some back door key program that was cutting edge, a joint program between military and computer manufacturers. Or was it thin thread?

Weird how it has morphed into this as supposedly fresh content to shock readers.

So this is manufactured umbrage. The goal being to shut it down after a lucrative investigatory campaign for the media, making it appear as though people got their safety from spying back but really ...it was a gimme.

The real hidden program in the works to replace this gimme is probably 20 times larger, probably with a snazzy name like magic mirror or scanner darkly or a drone block party. I give up on security program fancy names.

But prism is a program in throw away stage... Now that they have a new building to play with.

The public is being crapstormed, making it look like the government is fighting big monsters but its make believe. The big government heros are play fighting. It's fake like that pro wrestling.

Do we know of any companies that aren't giving access ( if there even is such a thing ) to the NSA, that we could support by using their e-mail and such?

Perhaps a mass deleting of our FB, gmail and hotmail accounts. Boy that almost sounds pointless as I write it...

Privacy is effectively a 20th century concept like the steam engine” Richard Aldrich International security professor

Google says the government has 'no access' to servers