How does Blood save?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by abeverage

 

Islam did not come from Abraham, it is an offshoot of the heretic Arius' teaching. Abraham didn't walk around the kaaba 7 times for remission of sins, neither did he place the Blackstone muslims worship. He in fact never even went to Mecca. He never went any further south than Memphis of ancient Egypt. Allah is the Destroyer. Christians and jews are the same people, the split occurred 2000 years ago and was prophecied of in Zechariah 11:14, this break between Israel and Judah came after the prohecy if Christ's betrayal by Judas for 30 pieces of silver spoken of in Zechariah 11:12-13. The northern kingdom of Israel had been assimilated by the gentiles during the subsequent exiles, and Jesus was sent to find them and bring them back into the fold, for which he spoke Matthew 15:24 and is why the majority of his sermons and ministry took place in the northern kingdom.

You are under a mighty deception if you think that Christ is not the same God as the OT. You think you know him but you do not. The feast days proclaim him, the prophecies proclaim him, Moses proclaimed him and Abraham did too. He blinded the jews so that he would be lifted up as foretold. Allah is not even the same god as christians and jews because Allah has no sons or companions (Sarat al-Isra 17:111, Surat Yunus 10:68). Our God has a Son and companion (Proverbs 30:4, Zechariah 13:7, Matt 3:16-17, John 3:16).

Do you want to know why God stopped appearing as Fire with a loud voice? Because he scared the Israelites and they asked him to stop because he was scaring them to death, so he took on a more pleasing form. Ask and you shall recieve. He gave them exactly what they asked for, he stopped appearing in a guise that scared them to death and gave them a prophet like Moses (Deuteronomy 18:15-22) to be his Voice in his name.

For which we say:

"Baruch Habah b'Shem Adonai Yeshua ha'Neseret"
"Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, Jesus of Nazareth" (Matthew 23:37-39)

Obviously you chose to ignore what I wrote...
I asked you nicely and succinctly to argue the scripture I offered in Matthew 5:38–39

Your chance to sway any belief in me has passed and proven my point. Is it Zealousness to which you couldn't even mention it once? Deflection is a silly game and one I will not play with you.

Your argument is now moot and any further will now fall on deaf ears! I will heed Jesus' message in Mathew 7:6 and stop casting the pearls before swine.

As for the Abrahamic religions are you to have me believe you are ignorant enough to admit that the Arabs and Jews do not have a common ancestor? Even the Jews and Muslims AGREE on it!

I wish you happiness and love lonewolf19792000 but I will not be baited into a future ridiculous self-centered argument with you and bid you good day.

reply to post by Deetermined

God in the Old Testament came to many in the form of a cloud, a burning bush, and spoke through the Angel of the Lord. The only person who's seen God in his true form is Jesus.

While all that Old Testament stuff was supposedly going on, my people had Tangri, Zeus, and Jupiter, not three gods, but one god the Father Heaven. in different languages. Father Heaven testifies that Brahman is the Ultimate One.

There are myths told of Father Sky coming down and appearing to people. Those are myths. So also are the stories in the Old Testament, myths.

Does Jesus confirm the myths of one group of people at the expense of all others?

reply to post by pthena


Personally, I don't dismiss any of it.

I usually start by doing research on the "god" and who was worshiping it.

Then I analyze the history to see what "happened" to these people that worshiped this particular god.

Finally, I research to see how many people today are still worshiping that particular god.

The true God is going to stand the test of time and the civilizations and people who worship him will not be erased from history, like some of the others.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

And now we come to who and what Jesus the Son of God is. The Son of God, is the manifestation of the Father's Glory in the corporeal. His Light made flesh. You cannot see the Father, you can only see the Son because the Son is the "image" of the Father, kind of like seeing your own shadow on a sunny day. This is how in John 1:18 the Son declares the Father. Where the Son is, so too is the Father and this is played out in the symbolism between the Presence of God and the Ark of the Covenant. The Ark being the Vessel, the Throne bearing the Presence of God.

Wow, thanks that is the best explanation I have heard.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by Deetermined
Leviticus 17:11-12

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.

Someone already used that quote...

The blood is part of the physical... And the spirit is life... which is not part of the physical...

Maybe the spirit is in the blood, which then wouldn't be totally physical. Not sure how to express this exactly.

reply to post by Akragon

The key to understanding it is in the story of Israel's escape from Egypt.

After a series of requests and then a few plagues to convince the Pharaoh to let them go a final act of killing the first-born of the Egyptians was threatened to have him release them.

To identify in whose household the first born would not be taken a young sheep was slaughtered (a normal daily practice to provide protein) and the blood of this animal was drained and painting on the door of the houses that were to be ignored or 'passed over'.

The flesh of the animal was roasted and eaten while they were dressed and ready to leave.

This worked and the descendants of Abraham through Jacob who was later renamed Israel were released.

This victory was celebrated annually on the 14th Nisan and still is.

Paul was mostly addressing Israelites in his letters and this symbol of deliverance was used as a common meme to explain the value of the dying and rising of Jesus, that His blood like 'Passover' releases all humans from the slavery/bondage of death.

This Paul described as the Good News or Gospel.

So it is not about God demanding blood but the taking of a daily act of killing an animal for food and making this a symbol of deliverance. Christians celebrate this reapplication of Passover too at Easter which in every language except modern English is the same word as Passover.

reply to post by Deetermined

The true God is going to stand the test of time and the civilizations and people who worship him will not be erased from history, like some of the others.

So basically, you're going to choose which ever god you think to be the winner?

Isaiah 60:10 “Foreigners shall build up your walls, and their kings shall minister to you: for in my wrath I struck you, but in my favor have I had mercy on you.

11 Your gates also shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring to you the wealth of the nations, and their kings led captive.

12 For that nation and kingdom that will not serve you shall perish; yes, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

Does this seem to be an incentive?

How again does shed blood save you? It looks here like salvation for Gentiles is based upon serving the chosen people.

Psalm 2
Yahweh said to me, “You are my son.
Today I have become your father.

8 Ask of me, and I will give the nations for your inheritance,
the uttermost parts of the earth for your possession.

9 You shall break them with a rod of iron.
You shall dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”

10 Now therefore be wise, you kings.
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.

11 Serve Yahweh with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.

12 Give sincere homage to the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath will soon be kindled.

With all this dashing in pieces it doesn't seem to be much of a sure thing. And even if you survive all this dashing to pieces, it looks like your continued existence will be contingent upon how much fear, trembling, and homage you display.

Instead of survival of the fittest, looks like survival of the sycophant.

Explain again what blood sacrifice has to do with any of this.

I urge the readers to look closely at this passage...

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is NOT the God of the dead, but of the living.

There is more then one god... but only one true Father of creation...

There are lesser gods in this creation... "the God of the dead" is one of them...

And I personally believe this God of the dead is the OT God... who lusts for the blood of the innocent...

Even to this day...

Look at the world we live in and tell me this is wrong...

130531
Sacrifice is the offering of food, objects or the lives of animals to a higher purpose. Not subject for mortal human modification/judgement. G tells you to do it, you do it.
Blood sacrifices were divided into the burnt offerings in which the whole animal was burnt, guilt offerings (in which part was burnt and part left for the priest) and peace offerings (in which similarly only part of the animal was burnt and the rest eaten in ritually pure conditions).
The prophets point out that prayer and sacrifices are only a part of serving G and need to be accompanied by inner morality and goodness.
Your citation of Leviticus is binding on Torah observant Hebrews, not heathen gentiles in general.

A ge-sus (there was no J in english till the 1600s ce) ge greek for earth, sus latin for pig, so gesus is earth-pig, not exactly a proper nick name for your Savior.
B. His family and friends called him Yeshua ישוע (short for Yehoshuah hebrew for G is salvation יְהוֹשֻׁעַ )
C. What Christ did during his galilean ministry was not what the jewish messiah will do. He attempted to get his people back to a proper worship of G, else face the catastrophy due 40 years later when over half the world population of jews was exterminated. (jewish-roman war 68ce)
D. what nters (new testament fanatics) intentionally fail to recognize is that all four records of the Gospil are anonymous narriatives of Christ's life, hearsay third hand recollections two to four generations after Christ's murder. Not first hand eye and ear witness to the words of Christ.
E. Christ taught from the Old Testament (TaNaKh) the heathen gentile nt (new testament) is a fabrication from about 300 yrs after his murder. Christ was Hebrew, his religion was orthodox Judaism not heathen nt christianity!
F. furthermore sa'ul/Paul was neither a Disciple of Christ, nor a Prophet of the G of Abraham. saul's dogma (making up over half the content of the nt) is not "scripture" in fact if you carefully document what teachings you can of Christ and compare those to what saul makes up you will see for yourself in many/most places saul directly contradicts the teachings of Christ, not suport them.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by pthena

 

Come on! Jesus quoted Yahweh. Jesus said his father was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The reasons Christians hold on to the Old Testament is because Jesus said that we would not die until all of the scriptures in the Old Testament concerning him had been fulfilled.

Jesus quoted over 60+ scriptures from 24 different books of the Old Testament!

Well that and it confirms him and it helps us to understand the things God hates.

reply to post by pthena


The verses that you quoted in Isaiah and Psalm have to do with the Millennial period. There will be a period of 1,000 years where God will allow the Israelites to live in peace here on earth to live out his promise to them while Satan is bound in the Abyss, but only after they've accepted his Son, Jesus. After that, Satan will be released from the Abyss to try and fool the nations one last time before Jesus throws him into the lake of fire.

As for the saving blood and how it all relates, I think Troubleshooter did a great job of it above.

reply to post by Akragon


Akragon, what part did you miss in verse 29?

Jesus is saying that God was the God of the scriptures that they were fully aware of. The God of the scriptures is the God of the living! The God in the scriptures is the one with great powers who has the ability to resurrect the dead to make them the living!

reply to post by bug


How exactly did you sign up in 2006 and you only have 9 posts

that's crazy lol...

Sacrifice is the offering of food, objects or the lives of animals to a higher purpose. Not subject for mortal human modification/judgement. G tells you to do it, you do it.

So IF your God told you to bust out an Uzi and mow down a crowd of children... You wouldn't even question it?

Because that is basically what Moses did...

Goodluck with that brother...

:shk:

Originally posted by celticsea
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

And now we come to who and what Jesus the Son of God is. The Son of God, is the manifestation of the Father's Glory in the corporeal. His Light made flesh. You cannot see the Father, you can only see the Son because the Son is the "image" of the Father, kind of like seeing your own shadow on a sunny day. This is how in John 1:18 the Son declares the Father. Where the Son is, so too is the Father and this is played out in the symbolism between the Presence of God and the Ark of the Covenant. The Ark being the Vessel, the Throne bearing the Presence of God.

Wow, thanks that is the best explanation I have heard.

There is a great amount of symbolism played out between the Presence of God, the Ark, Temple (Groom) and the City (Bride).

Take for instance, the wooden box of the Ark was constructed of #tim (red acacia) wood, and was overlaid by gold, symbolising the Divinity overlaid upon the ordinary wooden box which depicts the man Jesus overlaid by the Divinity of IEUE (a.k.a. Yahweh).

So we see the Presence of God upon the throne of the Ark and the Ark inside the Temple (Groom) and this is how the Son of God and the Father can share the same throne. Because that throne is the man Jesus.

Look at Adam, his wife taken from his own body, which mirrors the future event of the man Jesus Christ whom being the second Adam, has his Bride taken from his own Body in a blood covenant just like when Adam's blood was spilled with the removal of a rib, to bring forth his own bride.

Lot of symbolism being thrown around in there.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Akragon

 

Akragon, what part did you miss in verse 29?

Jesus is saying that God was the God of the scriptures that they were fully aware of. The God of the scriptures is the God of the living! The God in the scriptures is the one with great powers who has the ability to resurrect the dead to make them the living!

What part did you miss when Jesus said God is not the God of the dead?

Abraham, Issac, and Jacob were long dead when he said this... They're spirits are living im sure... but their bodies were dead... All of these people worshipped God in the flesh... Not God in spirit as Jesus told people to do...

There are two different Gods being spoken of here... The God of the OT, and the Father of Jesus who is the God of the living....

He wouldn't have even mentioned a God of the dead IF it didn't exist...

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Akragon

 

Jesus is saying that God was the God of the scriptures that they were fully aware of. The God of the scriptures is the God of the living! The God in the scriptures is the one with great powers who has the ability to resurrect the dead to make them the living!

What part did you miss when Jesus said God is not the God of the dead?

Abraham, Issac, and Jacob were long dead when he said this... They're spirits are living im sure... but their bodies were dead... All of these people worshipped God in the flesh... Not God in spirit as Jesus told people to do...

Unless in some sense Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not dead at least to God.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Akragon

 

Jesus is saying that God was the God of the scriptures that they were fully aware of. The God of the scriptures is the God of the living! The God in the scriptures is the one with great powers who has the ability to resurrect the dead to make them the living!

What part did you miss when Jesus said God is not the God of the dead?

Abraham, Issac, and Jacob were long dead when he said this... They're spirits are living im sure... but their bodies were dead... All of these people worshipped God in the flesh... Not God in spirit as Jesus told people to do...

Unless in some sense Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not dead at least to God.

Originally posted by troubleshooter

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Akragon

 

Jesus is saying that God was the God of the scriptures that they were fully aware of. The God of the scriptures is the God of the living! The God in the scriptures is the one with great powers who has the ability to resurrect the dead to make them the living!

What part did you miss when Jesus said God is not the God of the dead?

Abraham, Issac, and Jacob were long dead when he said this... They're spirits are living im sure... but their bodies were dead... All of these people worshipped God in the flesh... Not God in spirit as Jesus told people to do...

Unless in some sense Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not dead at least to God.

No they're not dead.... They're spirits are alive...

This is the world of the dead my friend... and the God of this world is NOT on our side... Nor is He/she/it the true Father of Creation..

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by troubleshooter

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Akragon

 

Jesus is saying that God was the God of the scriptures that they were fully aware of. The God of the scriptures is the God of the living! The God in the scriptures is the one with great powers who has the ability to resurrect the dead to make them the living!

What part did you miss when Jesus said God is not the God of the dead?

Abraham, Issac, and Jacob were long dead when he said this... They're spirits are living im sure... but their bodies were dead... All of these people worshipped God in the flesh... Not God in spirit as Jesus told people to do...

Unless in some sense Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not dead at least to God.

No they're not dead.... They're spirits are alive...

This is the world of the dead my friend... and the God of this world is NOT on our side... Nor is He/she/it the true Father of Creation..

Moses appeared in a photo opportunity with Jesus at His transfiguration ... so was Moses alive or dead?

reply to post by Akragon


It looks like you need to read those verses over and over again, because there is no differential made between two different Gods. He was only speaking of one God and was reminding them of what God told them.

Maybe these similar verses with additional ones will help you.

Mark 12:26-29

26 And as touching the dead, THAT THEY RISE: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

That's right. The God of the living is JESUS and God/Jesus are ONE. That's what he's been telling you from the beginning, but you refuse to listen!!