Golden Ratio :: Evidence or Coincidence of intelligent design?

originally posted by: Phage
False. There an infinite number of rational numbers.

Each individual rational number is finite, whereas each individual irrational number is infinite. Therefore, one irrational number has equal data to all the rational numbers combined:

rational number: 2

irrational number: 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592*64062862089986280348253421170679821480865132823066470938446095505822317253594081 284811174502841027019385211055596446229489549303819644288109756659334461284756482337867831652712019091456485669234603486104543266482133936072602491412 737245870066063155881748815209209628292540917153643678925903600113305305488204665213841469519415116094330572703657595919530921861173819326117931051185 480744623799627495673518857527248912279381830119491298336733624406566430860213949463952247371907021798609437027705392171762931767523846748184676694051 320005681271452635608277857713427577896091736371787214684409012249534301465495853710507922796892589235420199561121290219608640344181598136297747713099 605187072113499999983729780499510597317328160963185950244594553469083026425223082533446850352619311881710100031378387528865875332083814206171776691473 035982534904287554687311595628638823537875937519577818577805321712268066130019278766111959092164201989380952572010654858632788659361533818279682303019 520353018529689957736225994138912497217752834791315155748572424541506959508295331168617278558890750983817546374649393192550604009277016711390098488240 128583616035637076601047101819429555961989467678374494482553797747268471040475346462080466842590694912933136770289891521047521620569660240580381501935 112533824300355876402474964732639141992726042699227967823547816360093417216412199245863150302861829745557067498385054945885869269956909272107975093029 553211653449872027559602364806654991198818347977535663698074265425278625518184175746728909777727938000816470600161452491921732172147723501414419735685 481613611573525521334757418494684385233239073941433345477624168625189835694855620992192221842725502542568876717904946016534668049886272327917860857843 838279679766814541009538837863609506800642251252051173929848960841284886269456042419652850222106611863067442786220391949450471237137869609563643719172 874677646575739624138908658326459958133904780275900994657640789512694683983525957098258226205224894077267194782684826014769909026401363944374553050682 034962524517493996514314298091906592509372216964615157098583874105978859597729754989301617539284681382686838689427741559918559252459539594310499725246 808459872736446958486538367362226260991246080512438843904512441365497627807977156914359977001296160894416948685558484063534220722258284886481584560285 060168427394522674676788952521385225499546667278239864565961163548862305774564980355936345681743241125150760694794510965960940252288797108931456691368 672287489405601015033086179286809208747609178249385890097149096759852613655497818931297848216829989487226588048575640142704775551323796414515237462343 645428584447952658678210511413547357395231134271661021359695362314429524849371871101457654035902799344037420073105785390621983874478084784896833214457 138687519435064302184531910484810053706146806749192781911979399520614196634287544406437451237181921799983910159195618146751426912397489409071864942319 615679452080951465502252316038819301420937621378559566389377870830390697920773467221825625996615014215030680384477345492026054146659252014974428507325 186660021324340881907104863317346496514539057962685610055081066587969981635747363840525714591028970641401109712062804390397595156771577004203378699360 072305587631763594218731251471205329281918261861258673215791984148488291644706095752706957220917567116722910981690915280173506712748583222871835209353 965725121083579151369882091444210067510334671103141267111369908658516398315019701651511685171437657618351556508849099898599823873455283316355076479185 358932261854896321329330898570642046752590709154814165498594616371802709819943099244889575712828905923233260972997120844335732654893823911932597463667 305836041428138830320382490375898524374417029132765618093773444030707469211201913020330380197621101100449293215160842444859637669838952286847831235526 582131449576857262433441893039686426243410773226978028073189154411010446823252716201052652272111660396665573092547110557853763466820653109896526918620 564769312570586356620185581007293606598764861179104533488503461136576867532494416680396265797877185560845529654126654085306143444318586769751456614068 007002378776591344017127494704205622305389945613140711270004078547332699390814546646458807972708266830634328587856983052358089330657574067954571637752 542021149557615814002501262285941302164715509792592309907965473761255176567513575178296664547791745011299614890304639947132962107340437518957359614589 019389713111790429782856475032031986915140287080859904801094121472213179476477726224142548545403321571853061422881375850430633217518297986622371721591 607716692547487389866549494501146540628433663937900397692656721463853067360965712091807638327166416274888800786925602902284721040317211860820419000422 9661711963779213375751149595015...

a reply to: cooperton

Each individual rational number is finite, whereas each individual irrational number is infinite.

No. Pi is not infinite. It is the ratio between the diameter of a circle and its circumference. A definite, not infinite thing. The square root of 2 is not infinite either.

No number is infinite. A set of numbers can be.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: cooperton

No number is infinite. A set of numbers can be.

The data set of decimal places in an irrational number is infinite.

a reply to: cooperton

Yes.
And there are an infinite number of irrational numbers.
And there are an infinite number of rational numbers.

And there are more irrational numbers than rational numbers.

So...what?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: cooperton

So...what?

Mathematical complexity integrated into the fundamental structure of the universe and biology is an indication of an intelligent ordered system.

a reply to: cooperton

Actually, mathematics is a construct. Created by humans (and probably others) as a means to model reality. It does so quite well in many cases, but it is not reality.

a tendency to, and from zero.
the golden mean approximates a straight line in a 'golden' coordinate system.
Intelligence is the emergent characteristic of 'counting'.
fundamentally differentiation. (-)
The conceptual possibility of quantity, is not in is't self a quantity, or intelligence.

Are irrational numbers irrational with respect to the Plank length ?

originally posted by: Astronomer62
Lets run through what we do know about Phi and the Golden Ratio, the Pentagon, Pentagram, Decagram, Decagon and Dodecahedron are all related and fit together like a glove, but only by using ten points in a circle, not five, but this doesn't complete a master key shape, but does give a 3D dodecahedron in the centre:-

I know this subject is controversial, however my only purpose was to show a unique diagram for Phi that hasn't been shown before without confusing separate diagrams, my one includes the Pentagram:-
mathworld.wolfram.com...
It includes the Dodecahedron:-
www.goldennumber.net...
It includes the Golden Decagon featured above with picture
Most importantly it includes the Golden Spiral and mirror image that fit together like a glove, that astonishingly looks like the Mandelbrot set:-
en.wikipedia.org...
Please look on second image on link below that is called an Envelope Cardioid that has the right amount of spirals to cut through inner circle by ten points thus being to show two opposite pentacles, pentagons, and dodecahedron in the center.
mathworld.wolfram.com...

originally posted by: Astronomer62
a reply to: ThatDidHappen

Hi ThatDidHappen,
Another way to put Phi is 5^.5*.5+5. a lot of the shapes generated are to the power of five anyway!
There are scientists that feel that the Cosmos is shaped like a Dodecahedron, but isn't yet proven, however Plato thought the same thousands of years ago!
physicsworld.com...
The Golden Ratio has been found in solid state matter as shown on link below:-
www.sciencedaily.com...
If you attach a Golden Spiral to its mirror image you will find you get a cardioid, very like the first sequence of the Mandelbrot Set:-
en.wikipedia.org...

To show a larger image of this Envelope Cardioid but only placing one pentagon shape in the inner circle where the envelopes cross at ten equal points is below:-

a reply to: cooperton
I would like to stay neutral in this debate, but allow my caustic humour, if there is a Creator or God, and God is love perhaps the symbol of love is a cardioid LOL.

originally posted by: Astronomer62
a reply to: cooperton
I would like to stay neutral in this debate, but allow my caustic humour, if there is a Creator or God, and God is love perhaps the symbol of love is a cardioid LOL.

Yeah I bookmarked that drawing you did. Very interesting. You might like this:

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: cooperton

Each individual rational number is finite, whereas each individual irrational number is infinite.

No. Pi is not infinite. It is the ratio between the diameter of a circle and its circumference. A definite, not infinite thing. The square root of 2 is not infinite either.

No number is infinite. A set of numbers can be.

This seems like semantics. Would you say that it seems (as far as we know) the best mathematical representation of Pi is an approximation that has a non-repeating and non-ending decimal?

But (as you also mention) a mathematical representation is an artificial construct that attempts to approximate nature, but is not the reality of nature. So maybe our best known value of Pi is not really Pi itself?

a reply to: Belcastro

Now factor in Pi and G, another 2 very interesting constants and some form of underlying set of principles or code seems to be apparent in the fabric of reality.

Artists have long recognized the golden proportion as the most pleasing to our eyes. Many people conclude that this is but another example of intelligent design in living things.

In contemplating the design of living things and our capacity to find pleasure in them, many discern the hand of a Creator who wants us to enjoy life. Of our Creator the Bible says: “Everything he has made pretty in its time.”​—Ecclesiastes 3:11.

True nature is emergent from just a few basic rules (laws of nature). Build upon those rules enough, and the result looks chaotic, but a deep pattern may still exist that follows those basic rules.

Complex brains (such as the human brain) are hard-wired to find patterns in chaos, thus these patterns that exist throughout nature can become evident, even when that nature seems chaotic at its surface.


That is to say:

I think reality is granular at the smallest level, not smooth. And for each finite system we humans can experience, that micro-granularity will manifest itself in macro-patterns because there are only so many ways a finite granular system can construct itself.

People often say that intellegent design equals proof of the existance of a monotheistic god. Yet as far as I can see, there is nothing to suggest a singular creator god.

These patterns could have had multiple authors.

While the idea of everything being an accident of coincidence to get the universe to this point is hard to swallow, so is the concept of creator gods.

Well, maybe I'm the odd one out . . . .

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: cooperton

Yes.
And there are an infinite number of irrational numbers.
And there are an infinite number of rational numbers.

And there are more irrational numbers than rational numbers.

So...what?

That is way cool Phage!



So mathematics IS broken after all.