This planet is a trap for souls.

So I know the metaphysical concept has been bandied about quite a bit in philosophy and religion that this planet or realm of existence or reality or whatever you want to call it is really a honey pot to lure in souls and trap them here.

My igniting spark of revelation and I say this as a personal revelation and not something I hold on to as valid fact. Occurred at a rather early age, it was glaringly apparent to me that the world as a whole operated on 2 very basic principles. The pursuit of pleasure and the avoidance of pain. (I'll get in to more detail of observation of people that do the opposite)
There is if you would stop for a second and looked around an undulating cornucopia of lights sounds and bells and whistles to stimulate the mind and excite the senses. It would seem all our senses are constantly on fire with new information and experiences. I would say more so now than ever in the recorded history man mankind. If one were a roaming "spirit" say and passed by this glowing orb of energy we cal earth/life, wouldn't you stop to take a look? I know I would, which is I guess the point of this post.

Imagine for a second that the sun creates new souls on a regular basis. and all the planets in the solar system are in fact a form of sentience. but they need the energy/souls from the sun to live. One thing we do know for a fact is that without the sun we would cease to exist as it is our source of energy and there is nothing about that fact that any of us can dispute.

So through the evolution of the planet it develops the right environment for the suns energy/souls to condense on the surface. This condensation results in the formation of the most basic forms of life we label life as. (which in itself is an interesting word that we as sentient beings use) So from single cell organism to the bacteria to the tress and then the more complex forms of life to now. Now There is no doubting that there was an evolutionary ladder we all ascended in order to be experiencing this level of reality. Since I would wager a guess that the more senses or the more variety of senses a being has the greater the scope of determination of reality will be. So as life thrives on the plant the planet evolves even faster and so the level of interaction between the beings experience said reality also increases in complexity. Until we have iPhones and 3D movies internet and take away food and video games and MTv.

These are such alien and foreign things to our ancestors, they would not be able to comprehend the reality they found themselves in if we were to transport then here from the 1800's, so imagine how much we have changed from 300 yrs ago. So its safe to say that as far as distractions go we are not short of things to do on this planet. But there is nothing really of substance to free the spirit. You can watch trash TV at the flick of a channel and there is no shortage of places to get drunk and eat the fattiest food and most lavish sensual delights. In short there is no shortage of things that are what some might say "bad for you"
But try freeing your mind...Try thinking outside the the status quo and see how hard it is. See how society has evolved to keep you on the path that condones your obedience and despises your independence. Breaking free from the pleasures of this planet is a lot harder than most people think. This is why we have reincarnation. (which I believe in personally, its not a fact to be debated its just a feeling. Which I choose to believe has come about because there are those among us who do not wish to be alone.) There is a reason that this planet is seeing such an increase in the population. Because life on the planet is pretty awesome for the moment. Things are starting to get a bit more restrictive now but its been pretty awesome for the most part.

Mayhaps the feedback loop of souls coming from the sun and never leaving is having a tipping effect on the planet. Maybe this is the cyclical ebb and flow of the planets evolution maybe there are party's that benefit from such a high ratio of souls on this plant. These are all questions for another thread. So, do I think this planet is a Venus fly trap for souls. maybe maybe not. But there sure are a lot of us here and not too many asking the big questions.

Now to those that pursue pain rather than pleasure, one persons pleasure is another person pain so lets not be quick to judge one from another. All I will say is based on an individual experience early stimulus has a more concrete neural connection that solidifies what someone likes and dislikes. So as a nation or planet if we all have similar experiences from the age of 0 to 8 or 9 we will in theory all have similar likes and dislikes. Obviously this just a generalization, there will always be those that swim against the grain.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


brilliant thread, i pretty much feel the same as you do on this subject, and you've given me more to think about,

This is the bit i like the most

Mayhaps the feedback loop of souls coming from the sun and never leaving is having a tipping effect on the planet. Maybe this is the cyclical ebb and flow of the planets evolution maybe there are party's that benefit from such a high ratio of souls on this plant. These are all questions for another thread. So, do I think this planet is a Venus fly trap for souls. maybe maybe not. But there sure are a lot of us here and not too many asking the big questions.

the above paragraph of yours has really put into perspective the thoughts that i already had, i'd just not put them together in a way that made sense like you have, so thank you, I really like your way with words

Originally posted by Minnie1985
reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

brilliant thread, i pretty much feel the same as you do on this subject, and you've given me more to think about,

This is the bit i like the most

Mayhaps the feedback loop of souls coming from the sun and never leaving is having a tipping effect on the planet. Maybe this is the cyclical ebb and flow of the planets evolution maybe there are party's that benefit from such a high ratio of souls on this plant. These are all questions for another thread. So, do I think this planet is a Venus fly trap for souls. maybe maybe not. But there sure are a lot of us here and not too many asking the big questions.

the above paragraph of yours has really put into perspective the thoughts that i already had, i'd just not put them together in a way that made sense like you have, so thank you, I really like your way with words

Kind words indeed, thank you.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


I really, really like where you are going in your thinking with this thread. I'd have some general criticism of your explanation of "evolution," per se, since I think within your "prospectus of life observed here" there are many more possibilities, such as an eletrically produced, artificial matrix....

However, just going with what you wrote, which I actually turned down my music feed so I could concentrate fully upon (rare for me), I think you nailed many things regardless of the mechanics of "place and time." Personally, I think it may have started as you describe, but has since been hijacked, in a way, by those who discovered how that actually worked, and harvested souls under certain circumstances by providing "positive' and "negative" choices via the Bible, religion, morality in general, and the provision of many ways to err, on purpose, to substantiate a method for differentiation for our souls, to justify the harvest of that energy and putting it wherever they decided to put it. In other words, your dog acts like your last best friend, because maybe that's really who he is, and then, maybe not. Maybe that's just a total con through electromagnetics to make you "think" that, too.
All that is possible. But while it is possible, you must realize that any group or person/thing, platform, let's say that would provide such negatives and postives, and harvest like that would be inherently exposed to ultimate corruption, and negativity to cave to on its own, with no check and balance, other than a life force some of us define as God, whom we assume knows all about each and every one of know matter how we are made to appear to be, or be perceived, true or not, because with all you describe of this planet life today, you must realize that so very much can be perceptually conformed as desired for a specific outcome. This, here, is why I question, then evolution. Because if that is so, then evolution as a science becomes suspect as well.

Anyhow, love your thinking, and you wrote this very well.
Tetra50

An interesting post.

However I sometimes worry that perhaps not enough souls are reaching their exit potential from the planet.
Perhaps souls evolve by animal bodies into human incarnations.
But then people cause so much suffering and karma that they fall back to become slaughtered animals and devastated nature, and it becomes a vicious cycle.
It's less of a honey-pot than a pressure cooker, perhaps.

Originally posted by tetra50
reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

it is possible, you must realize that any group or person/thing, platform, let's say that would provide such negatives and postives, and harvest like that would be inherently exposed to ultimate corruption, and negativity to cave to on its own, with no check and balance, other than a life force some of us define as God, whom we assume knows all about each and every one of know matter how we are made to appear to be, or be perceived, true or not, because with all you describe of this planet life today, you must realize that so very much can be perceptually conformed as desired for a specific outcome. This, here, is why I question, then evolution. Because if that is so, then evolution as a science becomes suspect as well.

Anyhow, love your thinking, and you wrote this very well.
Tetra50

Oh trust me when I say I do realize that whatever is maintaining the feedback loop is so intertwined in the system that it is almost indistinguishable and at the same time almost something else. What I believe we are in the process of doing is no more than give birth to a form of sentience never seen on this planet before. What it is and what form it will take I dont know. But it will be new and it will be more powerful than any one individual or group. Will it be benevolent or malevolent I guess that depends on what we feed it.

Evolution itself could well be suspect and vulnerable to the machinations of the system but observable science seems to indicate an increase in complexity. But what is driving that process?

Originally posted by halfoldman
An interesting post.

However I sometimes worry that perhaps not enough souls are reaching their exit potential from the planet.
Perhaps souls evolve by animal bodies into human incarnations.
But then people cause so much suffering and karma that they fall back to become slaughtered animals and devastated nature, and it becomes a vicious cycle.
It's less of a honey-pot than a pressure cooker, perhaps.

A pressure cooker it might well be now but the essence of my post was to highlight the fact that the pressure has only recently started to build. Until then this was a veritable garden of Eden. Not a bad oasis in the dessert of space. And they never will reach their exit potential as you say because they are too caught up in the physical world more and more. But it wasnt always like this. You just dont remember....

Evolution itself could well be suspect and vulnerable to the machinations of the system but observable science seems to indicate an increase in complexity. But what is driving that process?

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


For my part, you are putting much more faith in "overservable science" than I even can....or will. So I cannot accurately agree as to the increase or decrease in complexity. I only know that it has been "translated" by what you and I see with more controlling motives into a "mechanized process," as you call it, for the desire of FEEDING it, and creating it in just such a predicated way. What or who is driving that process, and if it is really the only process by which this could even happen, is totally up for grabs. I could accept many answers, and who really, is to say, for the reality is this history has alrready been slowly and inexorably played out in a feedback loop (also great description of yours) to change the eventual outcome, so that the year 1952 was a progression of events for one person, and different for another.....Taking it down to the individual perception tells you about that feedback loop, the purposefulness of it, and helps, perhaps, to try to nail down what is driving it.
We live in a totally inculcating environment. This is for a reason, not even speaking to psychotronic tech, neurolinguistic programming, all being asserted for a reason, all that control, to feed what you describe in a certain way to drive a certain outcome....
JMHO

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


I fully disagree, but I enjoyed your opening post for its originality.

I think that just as you see things as distractions, others see things as attractions, and neither distractions nor attractions is right nor wrong. I think they are relative/subjective, and I think they must be relative/subjective for a reason; and that reason is to learn to have faith in one another, and to love one another even though we have differences of opinions.

And Earth is not a trap, it's a soul creation and maturation station. lol

and Aliens are just Angels. Believe that!

reply to post by TiM3LoRd

Well, no, it wasn't always like that.
Otherwise it wouldn't be a "pressure cooker", because that implies a gradual build-up of the energy.
Well for the honey-pot one could use the Hindu concept of maya.
The attraction of the material universe.
But I think in past ages the possibility of liberation was much simpler, and now maya and karma is much stronger and bewildering in the kali-yuga.
Of course the OP didn't use religious terms like this, but I find some dual interpretation is possible.
However, because material existence always includes birth, death, waning and suffering, religiously the conglomeration of incarnated souls on earth is not a positive thing.

Originally posted by tetra50

Evolution itself could well be suspect and vulnerable to the machinations of the system but observable science seems to indicate an increase in complexity. But what is driving that process?

reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

For my part, you are putting much more faith in "overservable science" than I even can....or will. So I cannot accurately agree as to the increase or decrease in complexity. I only know that it has been "translated" by what you and I see with more controlling motives into a "mechanized process," as you call it, for the desire of FEEDING it, and creating it in just such a predicated way. What or who is driving that process, and if it is really the only process by which this could even happen, is totally up for grabs. I could accept many answers, and who really, is to say, for the reality is this history has alrready been slowly and inexorably played out in a feedback loop (also great description of yours) to change the eventual outcome, so that the year 1952 was a progression of events for one person, and different for another.....Taking it down to the individual perception tells you about that feedback loop, the purposefulness of it, and helps, perhaps, to try to nail down what is driving it.
We live in a totally inculcating environment. This is for a reason, not even speaking to psychotronic tech, neurolinguistic programming, all being asserted for a reason, all that control, to feed what you describe in a certain way to drive a certain outcome....
JMHO

The increase in complexity is just an observation and ultimately what I associate as me is based on things I can observe and experience. To speculate anything else would defeat the purpose of this incarnation. There is such a thing as missing the forest for the trees. I do feel like you do that this system was originally naturally occurring and in balance and harmony with whatever the rhythm was supposed to be. But somewhere it was caught and steered to where it is now. I also find is strange that more people are not as perceptible to it.

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

I fully disagree, but I enjoyed your opening post for its originality.

I think that just as you see things as distractions, others see things as attractions, and neither distractions nor attractions is right nor wrong. I think they are relative/subjective, and I think they must be relative/subjective for a reason; and that reason is to learn to have faith in one another, and to love one another even though we have differences of opinions.

And Earth is not a trap, it's a soul creation and maturation station. lol

and Aliens are just Angels. Believe that!

edit on 5/4/2013 by Bleeeeep because: (no reason given)

Thank you for taking the time to read something you didnt agree with. You have shown me a way I can improve myself a little more today so thank you for that.

You are 100% correct when you say one mans distractions is another mans attractions. What I probably should have elucidated more was that I believe that in fact those attractions are a natural evolution of this planet but somewhere in pre history we became fixated with attraction. Not that there is anything wrong with that, as I have myself stated I believe it to be part of a natural system but it has been corrupted and in doing so corrupted the recipient of such stimuli.

As to aliens being angels just because one word was used first doesn't mean it has any more validity. I believe they are both inaccurate attempts to explain and label something so far beyond most of our ability to comprehend. It all boils down to what we each believe doesnt it. Again thank you for taking the time to reply.

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

Well, no, it wasn't always like that.
Otherwise it wouldn't be a "pressure cooker", because that implies a gradual build-up of the energy.
Well for the honey-pot one could use the Hindu concept of maya.
The attraction of the material universe.
But I think in past ages the possibility of liberation was much simpler, and now maya and karma is much stronger and bewildering in the kali-yuga.
Of course the OP didn't use religious terms like this, but I find some dual interpretation is possible.
However, because material existence always includes birth, death, waning and suffering, religiously the conglomeration of incarnated souls on earth is not a positive thing.

Ahhhh, yes there you go. Now we are getting to the meat and potatoes. Like I said I believe the cycle of life was inevitable, suffering and joy are both required but how much experience can a soul experience in one life time. So there might have been a need to come back a couple of times just to get the full spectrum of emotion. The problem I think occurred when souls became addicted to life and all its intoxicating experiences. It became harder and harder to return back to the source which would be the sun not the earth. The earth is the mother but the sun is the father. The earth gives birth but without the sun to fertilize it will be barren. Positive and negative are relativistic concepts that cannot exist without each other. nothing is truly one or the other.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


I think I have figured out the bit of "natural evolution" you're referring to. I think it derives from God's desires.

The way I "solved" it was by breaking down concepts, or rather, placing everything into concepts. For social/mental concepts, we all seek new and better concepts [because of God's desire to have us be what he wants], and once we accept a new concept to be better or "good", we will desire to obtain said concept or to reaffirm we have said concept, over and over. Once we have said concept we will rejoice by experiencing joy and happiness and we will try to recreate said concept by passing it on to others, and we will fight [both mentally and physically] to keep said concept, if we believe said concept is being attacked.

The point I'm making is that good and bad are not assigned by us, they're from God, but once we do believe we have a good concept, we will be attracted to it. Thus, we will seek to be entertained by attractions. We are just trying to produce/reproduce what we think is good.

see: This and this, if you get the time. I think they explain, not only how we evolve (by producing/reproducing good), but also why we evolve (God is making companions out of us), but he wants us to be faithful of one another and to love one another.

Oh and you must be like a child to become a companion, I think. Being like a child is being faithful and loving. Some would call it being gullible, but that is not a shortcoming - that is the only way, and it is divinity. And as an adult, I will definitely testify that faith is definitely the prerequisite to understanding and love. As my faith grows I am able to understand things/people without having much knowledge of them.

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

I think I have figured out the bit of "natural evolution" you're referring to. I think it derives from God's desires.

The way I "solved" it was by breaking down concepts, or rather, placing everything into concepts. For social/mental concepts, we all seek new and better concepts [because of God's desire to have us be what he wants], and once we accept a new concept to be better or "good", we will desire to obtain said concept or to reaffirm we have said concept, over and over. Once we have said concept we will rejoice by experiencing joy and happiness and we will try to recreate said concept by passing it on to others, and we will fight [both mentally and physically] to keep said concept, if we believe said concept is being attacked.

The point I'm making is that good and bad are not assigned by us, they're from God, but once we do believe we have a good concept, we will be attracted to it. Thus, we will seek to be entertained by attractions. We are just trying to produce/reproduce what we think is good.

see: This and this, if you get the time. I think they explain, not only how we evolve (by producing/reproducing good), but also why we evolve (God is making companions out of us), but he wants us to be faithful of one another and to love one another.

The problem with free will and doing something that someone else wants is counter intuitive. God cant profess his desire for us to have free will and at the same tone say we have to do what makes God happy.

IMHO God is not an entity it is not a separation or different thing to us or reality It is all. If you use this line of reasoning then any entity claiming to be god by definition is NOT God. What you are referring to I believe is the corruption that has invaded the garden. But to each his own.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


You must have faith, I'm telling you. Without it, you will not be able to understand.

The problem you have is that you think good and bad are static things. They are not. One thing can be both good, bad, and neither good nor bad.

I'm sure you can think of an example, but lets just say having sex. Having sex with a spouse lets a couple share their love for one another, but having sex with someone else's spouse will cause hatred and a lot of other problems.

Do you see? It is not that free will beings cannot be free with a rule set to govern them. Rules do not confine us, they protect us. They see that we might only experience happy things.

eta: I'll give you time to let the dissidence in your mind settle - too much at once is not good for learning.

Im a believer in reincarnation,and i think that this planet/world is a place of learning,and also for working off negative karma.By virtue of the vast array of experiences,options,other souls we encounter here,etc it is a very effective school.Maybe the trap is that through the major conventional religions,souls get hung up on shifting the responsibility for their spiritual welfare onto a deity or entity,or onto a pastor/imam/rabbi/some "holy man"-figure.They become dependent,and fearful.That way they don't make progress at all,or very little.Interesting theory you have,anyway.

Originally posted by halfoldman
An interesting post.

However I sometimes worry that perhaps not enough souls are reaching their exit potential from the planet.
Perhaps souls evolve by animal bodies into human incarnations.
But then people cause so much suffering and karma that they fall back to become slaughtered animals and devastated nature, and it becomes a vicious cycle.
It's less of a honey-pot than a pressure cooker, perhaps.

That's the nature of us I think.

If the op were to be taken seriously, and the energies of life - souls - were emitted by the sun and we are the result of a condensate of life, it would be like shining a laser beam into a puff of dust, it will only be illuminated briefly before being gone again. Anything that existed in that shroud of life, passes on and whether or not it chances to exist again, is not anything we can ever know as we are experiencing that brief moment of existence.

I doubt anyone who has ever lived had reached their full potential of experience.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


Ahh I see it more like a pot boiling. It starts of simmering, then boiling, then a rolling boil and then it boils dry.

We're not rolling yet. When we do it will be brief and violent and fleeting.

reply to post by winofiend


Interesting analogy. Could you explain it with a bit more reference to how souls reincarnate?

Where does the steam go?