USA is Guilty of Committing Useless War Crimes! According to 30 year intel vet

reply to post by charles1952


Hello Charles, yes there is some disput re FM 30-31B, but it has a good chance of not being a forgery for the following reasons

CIA testimony provided a single claim for calling the document a forgery: that it was marked "Top Secret" and that field manuals are never so highly classified. There may have been other claims which were deleted from the public record of the hearing to protect classified means and methods for detecting forgeries, but if so they do not appear to have been made public. Without such other information, the single CIA forgery claim appears weak:

3. The CIA is reported to engage in the same covert actions, including forgeries, of which it accuses the Soviets, and it never publicly admits to them.

4. It is a common ploy for intelligence agencies to accuse their competitors of what they do themselves when publicly exposed, to offer piecemeal explanations, pause to see if they calm a storm, then issue more as required, each time gauging effectiveness. The hearing could be seen as part of such a counterintelligence operation.

cryptome.org...

I see though, that you do your homework, and I appreciate all the hard work and insights that you have brought to this thread
which is the kind of discussion I was hoping to encourage on this topic
thank you for that

reply to post by Danbones

Dear Danbones,

Your kindness is very impressive, thanks a lot. And this is a very worthwhile thread. I'm grateful to you.

I'm really torn on this issue. There's no question that immoral and illegal acts are, well, immoral and illegal. Nobody likes them (I hope).

They are also conducted by, I would expect, nearly every country. Not that that makes them right. If we have enemies, and I think we do, can we count on them to always behave morally and legally? No. Part of the problem is that if you believe you are cornered, you'll fight dirty, do anything, to win. If an individual is afraid that he is going to be attacked, he's going to buy a gun, legal or not.

A related consideration is that governments tend to make decisions based on a cost-benefit analysis. "What will happen if we carry this off, what is the chance we'll get caught, and if we do get caught what will it cost us." I believe that many countries do illegal and immoral things after figuring the odds.

So whether it's the emotional, "We have to do this to survive," or the calculated "We'll be better off if we do," it seems there is a lot of incentive to try that kind of illegal action now and then. Does the US do it? Absolutely. Do they do it more than other countries, and place themselves in the Hitler league? I don't see it.

There's also a PR problem involved. With the world shouting at the US for being criminals, yet ignoring other countries, it becomes easy to disregard those who are complaining. It looks like political manuevering by American enemies. Not surprisingly, that doesn't win much support in the US. Is there a neutral body calling for each country to be examined? No, and the UN isn't even close to neutral. Until there is, I don't see much of a chance for trying American "war criminals."

With respect,
Charles1952

Hello Charles
One thing to consider: this isn't just an American problem its world wide.

One of the biggest losses is to the American image of itself
It's slowing being eroded so that the ideal promise the US illuminates is so tarnished no onewill want that freedom..it will be so contaminated with hypocracy

If one wanted to destroy a state, taking the moral high ground away is a good way to start

reply to post by Danbones

Dear Danbones,

Thanks, good point. I'm not entirely clear, however.

One of the biggest losses is to the American image of itself
It's slowing being eroded so that the ideal promise the US illuminates is so tarnished no onewill want that freedom..it will be so contaminated with hypocracy

I wonder if the effect is that great. People still seem to want to come to the US. I wonder why? Is it religious freedom, escape from dictatorial rule, chance for a richer life? I think those motivations will be more important than whether we've waterboarded a few people, or if Obama has upped drone activity.

If one wanted to destroy a state, taking the moral high ground away is a good way to start

Which major countries in the world today do you think have the moral high ground? China? Russia? Iran? UK? I honestly don't know. Is it making a big difference? I don't know that either, but there don't seem to be many who care.

With respect,
Charles1952

there don't seem to be many who care

you got that right Charles

I guess the TV show 24 where torture was the rule, not the exception, seems to be the way they wants it.
America was the country that I think many in the world felt held the promise of leading the rest of this planet to that moral high ground...

Here in Canada there is the legacy of residential schools perpetrated on indiginous children and that is somewhat worse then even torturing adults would be - a top ten genocide according to Amnesty International.
While that is not exactly torture there certainly is not much high ground there.

Part of the discussion of "moral high ground" arises from when the representatives of the US tell the other countries that you mentioned they must improve thier human rights...( or else )
I wonder how that type of observation and directive will be recieved now?

Just to update this decent thread. Donald Rumsfeld, is now in the picture, and it is even topical since it involves his part in bringing chemical weapons to Iraq,

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Somehow this information is just being released now, and with the dubious nature of the origins of the make-up of the Syrian chemical weapons, makes the whole current scenario very suspect, and very hypocritical. It's all about money...oil/gas whatever.

Apologies to all, I revisited that story. There is nothing wrong with the context, but it is NOT a new story, I misread the date which is the current date, Mea Culpa. However it was a new story to me that I came across looking into the Syrian situation, and it still has the shadow of hypocrisy around it, given what is happening now. Feel free to beat me up though!

What a racist thread.
By lumping Obama in with Bush and everyone else before that makes this a totally racist thread, it doesn't matter if there is any truth behind it .

/sarcasm off

reply to post by Alxandro


Racist thread? How did you ever get that thought through your brain?

This is saying that it doesn't matter who, or what, is placed into office - the agenda goes on.

You are obviously the one that is racist - stop it.

reply to post by Happy1


Did you not read my entire post?
It was nothing but sarcasm.
If you missed the point you've been living under a rock for the past 5 years.

reply to post by Alxandro


Sorry, I read most of the thread then saw your post - I am truly sorry, am guilty of doing what I hate other people do - not reading the entire thread - and I do appreciate sarcasm.

Yeah, and anyone who still believes in this government, this system, or votes for these politicians are COMPLICIT as well.

Lots of traitors in this country. LOTS.